Suggestion Box on how to boost Student Attendance & Enthusiasm at Games

[elephtheria47]

Cant disagree. Even with free tickets, the only out of conference game I'm even thinking about going to is ball state and with that being Christmas time is tbd. Brutal home schedule.

[VUGrad1314]

Ball State and MAYBE High Point but ONLY because of their coach. We need to do better than this going forward. We're in a good mid major conference now. Leverage that. USE that. Please. Ever since the MVC move I have been begging for the Athletic Department to give me a reason to become a season ticket holder. I WANT them to take my money but I can't do that when the home slate prior to conference play is complete crap. I KNOW I can't be the only alum/fan/local resident that feels this way. Please find a way to do better.

[FieldGoodie05]

What will the student section do without it's faithful leader?  I agree it's a crap opponent but there is no way I'd miss MY team's home opener if I were a student. Disappointing to hear this.

https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1032321756122566656

He's a typical self indulgent twit (aka teenager).  But understand where you are coming from, we are just cut from different cloth than the young man OR he too will find the way . . . as we did.

[vu72]

Clearly the Athletic Administration is trying new methods for student involvement.  Now it is "Crusader Tailgate".  Sounds like a great effort and sure hope it works!

https://www.facebook.com/valpoathletics/videos/vb.113914928664233/260159481277639/?type=2&theater

[vu72]

The Fall Sports Tailgate is TODAY! Kick off the fall @ValpoAthletics season at 5 p.m. at Brown Field with free food, inflatables, a pep rally, and more!

Plus, cheer @ValpoWSO to a victory against Bowling Green! 📣🙌 #GoValpo

[VU2014]

The Fall Sports Tailgate is TODAY! Kick off the fall @ValpoAthletics season at 5 p.m. at Brown Field with free food, inflatables, a pep rally, and more!

Plus, cheer @ValpoWSO to a victory against Bowling Green! 📣🙌 #GoValpo

Hopefully they get a strong turn out! It looks like they'll have awesome weather tonight.

[VU2014]

Was yesterday a rain out?

https://twitter.com/ValpoU/status/1035545883419598850

[VU2014]

I'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here.

Yes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall  quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola  deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial  to  study what they did in turning theirs around.

Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on.  It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.

Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full.  But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year?  Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.

I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep...

Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!

[FieldGoodie05]

I'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here.

Yes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall  quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola  deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial  to  study what they did in turning theirs around.

Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on.  It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.

Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full.  But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year?  Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.

I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep...

Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!

So by that logic that means that the only "current" students that remember the true quality of the student section would have to be Juniors / Seniors by now.  So it's safe to say that some of the leaders from the student section graduated in the 2015/16 season and some were not replaced.  This means the coaching staff has to engage all levels of students from student body leaders to casual fans.  Uphill battle but at least some of the upperclassmen know what it should look like.

Either way, all I am asking for is 3/4 full and some perks provided to Pep Band members for volunteering their time.  YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

[VUBBFan]

I'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here.

Yes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall  quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola  deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial  to  study what they did in turning theirs around.

Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on.  It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.

Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full.  But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year?  Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.

I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep... Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!

Some of me wants to blame falling attendance on the ease of seeing every game broadcast free on ESPN3. It's very convenient to stay home, do a little work be with friends and still see the game. Reminds me back in the 70's/80's when the Blackhawks owner wouldn't allow home games to be on TV because he wanted to have the fans in the stadium.


I wonder if having to pay for ESPN3+ will bring a few of them back inside the ARC?  Would love to see some more involvement and butts in the stands.

[VU2014]

I'm moving this conversation from the recruiting thread to here.

Yes, they bought in before the results were tangible or even within view. In contrast, our student attendance was awful despite a tremendous history of recent success and a conference move that greatly enhances the overall  quality of our schedule. We can debate the reasons and causes for this but the fact remains that those students at Loyola  deserve everything good they got, are getting, and will get. The city of Chicago may have been late to the party but the students sure weren't. If we want to recapture our student culture it may be instructive and beneficial  to  study what they did in turning theirs around.

Clearly the Athletic Department has stepped up their game with regard to attracting students to athletic events. LOTS of new things going on.  It remains to be seen if it will work but there is all kinds of evidence that an increased effort is underway.

Admittedly I don't care about this topic as much as I should, and yes it looks bad not having the student section at least 3/4 full.  But has the "student" part been a downward trend OR did it just fall of a cliff last year?  Some of us on this forum are season ticket holders and can speak to this question please.

I'm not a season ticket holder but I noticed a sharp dip after the 15-16 season and then a nose dive last season. It was actually embarrassingly low student attendance last season. I know I shouldn't dog the ones that showed up but none of them had a clue of what the cheers were and don't get me started on the sitting... The pep band the last handful of years also seems to have lost some of it's pep... Having a rowdy student section and a quality pep band is part of what makes attending college basketball games so much fun. This is a huge issue for the athletics department and it needs to be addressed!

Some of me wants to blame falling attendance on the ease of seeing every game broadcast free on ESPN3. It's very convenient to stay home, do a little work be with friends and still see the game. Reminds me back in the 70's/80's when the Blackhawks owner wouldn't allow home games to be on TV because he wanted to have the fans in the stadium.


I wonder if having to pay for ESPN3+ will bring a few of them back inside the ARC?  Would love to see some more involvement and butts in the stands.

Great point. Maybe it will draw more students to the ARC. It might even draw a few more locals. ESPN3 definitely was a game changer that had a big impact on attendance across CBB the last 6-8 years or so.

I'm wondering how much of it is the ability to watch games from the dorms/library and how much is not being indoctrinated into the Valpo Basketball culture? It might be a case of the University admissions attracting a different type of student who isn't into sports as much as past generations. To be honest I don't know what the deal is. It's just concerning.

If you're a University administrator or if you work in the donations office they better be concerned because many alums have kept there connection to the University via the Men's Basketball program through the years. The stronger an alum's bond to the University, the more generous those alums tend to be when it comes to willingness to donate in the future. I know for a fact that many of my friends feel that connection via the MBB team. When they do well it makes alums feel proud. The University and Athletics Dept better not squander the opportunity to build and nurture the generation.

[crusadermoe]

VU2014,

I think you are my brother by another mother!  Keep after it.   I agree with every single point about our student section and you make it well.   

If the current crop of students isn't into hoops, maybe they are into resumes and job searches.  Their 40-something bosses may like basketball.  If they see a lame atmosphere on the ARC as they channel surf a couple of times it makes a statement about the university's culture and student socialization.   

Is the smartphone "in my own world" generation coming into bloom?  The self-absorbed crowd?   It brings to mind a YouTube I saw a camera catch a big group of sorority girls who were "watching" an MLB game (or at least sitting in a stadium).  They were all staring at phones and taking selfies of themselves and each other.   The announcers laughed at how they never even glanced toward the game.  How funny is it ultimately if people are either too vane, immature, or socially isolated to communicate well and enjoy each other's company?     

[valpowbb1]

Dont blame smartphones, there are kids in every school looking for social interaction without their phones.  If you get the right student leaders and a good product, students will attend.  I have been to games all over the country in schools big and small. Good product and good leaders = great atmosphere.

[VUGrad1314]

Non-con schedule excluded there's nothing wrong with the product... Hmmm...

[4throwfan]

Unfortunately, attendance woes is a problem that is widespread.  Which means that the difficulties in reversing the trend at the ARC are not simply issues under University control that it can fix.  Seems that the problem is generational.  That is not meant to be critical of the younger generation, it is simply that tastes change over time.  My generation did not do things that college-aged kids of previous generations liked to do, and current students don't like to do what my generation liked to do, which was to go to games.  The two links below discuss attendance issues at other schools, including student attendance, which is down.  It's a universal problem.

2014 makes an excellent point, that I had not thought of before - down student attendance now translates to fewer donations later.  If it were not for that point, I would simply suggest that the University forget about trying to get someone to come to a game that they clearly don't want to come to, and move on to solving other problems that can actually be solved.  Use the space in the student section for something else.

If the University wants to increase student attendance, then they have to look at the solution as convincing a generation of people to do what they wouldn't ordinarily want to do, i.e., change behavioral patterns.  Universities are reluctant to do that.  Rather, they tend to like to react to student trends, and go with the flow of that trend.

I don't have any suggestions, but I will say that offering free stuff at the games, and having better opponents and a better team on the floor will not move the needle.  To increase student attendance, the University is trying to lift a single boat in a lowering tide, and traditional attractions won't work.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/college/men-s-college-basketball-programs-facing-attendance-declines.html#!

https://www.seccountry.com/kentucky/kentucky-basketball-rupp-arena-attendance-numbers-down-john-calipari-reacts

[VUGrad1314]

Team performance and (perceived opponent quality are huge factors at games. The fact that Butler Purdue Missouri State the year they won the MVC New Mexico Murray State Rhode Island  SLU Florida State and St Mary's represent our largest recent home gates recently is no accident.

[VU2014]

Dont blame smartphones, there are kids in every school looking for social interaction without their phones.  If you get the right student leaders and a good product, students will attend.  I have been to games all over the country in schools big and small. Good product and good leaders = great atmosphere.

I'd like to see the athletics department sponsor a student organization that is tasked with building/teaching the next generation of student section leaders. Fraternities, sororities and other organizations do this well. Why couldn't a student section organization do the same but also have the financial support of the student senate and athletics dept.

We need some students to step up. The current group of guys just aren't motivated and don't want to put in the work of organizing anything. If I were the athletics depart I'd reach out to some outgoing student-athletes that are in their offseason and approach them with the proposition.

[VUGrad1314]

We need some students to step up. The current group of guys just aren't motivated and don't want to put in the work of organizing anything. If I were the athletics depart I'd reach out to some outgoing student-athletes that are in their offseason and approach them with the proposition.

Well, you see, it takes a lot of work to manage a burgeoning national media brand. After all, GCU might be playing in Chicago and no self-respecting Valpo fan in their right mind would ever want to  miss covering that.

[VU2014]

We need some students to step up. The current group of guys just aren't motivated and don't want to put in the work of organizing anything. If I were the athletics depart I'd reach out to some outgoing student-athletes that are in their offseason and approach them with the proposition.

Well, you see, it takes a lot of work to manage a burgeoning national media brand. After all, GCU might be playing in Chicago and no self-respecting Valpo fan in their right mind would ever want to  miss covering that.

Multiple people have reached out to them over social media asking them to join the forum and engage in productive discussions on how to improve the student section. I think a lot of us have some solid ideas. We want them to succeed.

So far they have been unwilling to engage in conversation. Hopefully that changes this year.

[VUGrad1314]

We all want them to succeed. I truly do despite how tough I've been on them, the question is--and given their unwillingness to engage with those who have reached out to them and offered help, I fear we may already have our answer--do they want to succeed in anything besides building their own twitter and podcast presence?

[4throwfan]

Sorry, I'm not technically savvy, and don't know how to copy in quotes from other posters, but 1314 posted this in response to my comment that the University has to do more than improve the team and opponent scheduling:

Team performance and (perceived opponent quality are huge factors at games. The fact that Butler Purdue Missouri State the year they won the MVC New Mexico Murray State Rhode Island  SLU Florida State and St Mary's represent our largest recent home gates recently is no accident.

1314's point is that team quality and opponent quality both matter.  I wish that were the case, but the numbers suggest otherwise.

In 15-16, VU went 30-7, had 3 NIT games (one was an all-time attendance record), and a top 25 opponent (RI), and averaged 3573 per home game.  Not bad.

In 03-04, VU was in the Summit/Mid-Con (not nearly the quality of opponent of today) and went 18-13.  I.e., 12 fewer victories and 6 more losses.  The average home attendance was 3944.  For the UMKC game on Valentine's Day (not a big night for guys wanting to attend sporting events, nor a Div. I powerhouse), the home crowd was 4214.

In 04-05, VU was in the Summit/Mid-Con and went 15-16, and averaged home attendance of 4174.

So, in two seasons with far less quality on the floor, and far less quality in opponent, VU drew an average of more than 500 more per home game.  Yes, it is true that a good team may draw a decent crowd for the occasional opponent, but on average attendance will be down.  When I went to those games in those years, I don't ever remember seeing a completely vacant student section when school was in session.  That is common now.

Attendance is down.  Student attendance is abysmal, and to think that today's student will come to a game simply because it will likely be a good game simply ignores the statistical facts.  I wish that were not the case, but it is.  It is generational, and it is not the fault of the guys at Happening Hoops.

My only point is that free T-shirts and other trinkets won't change that.  Better teams and better opponents will only slow the bleeding, but that's all.  I wish that I had an answer.

[VUGrad1314]

We can both be right here, and we are. Yes it's generational but the best way to counteract that is to  give the fans home games that are worth attending. There are simply too many entertainment options and ways to access the games these days that weren't available back then. This youth culture likes to be seen. Games need to be an event. Or on TV which many MVC games are, thankfully. The quality of opponent is a big part of that. You can't trot out two non-D1s 2 low major  also-rans and 2 decent games and then throw up your hands and say "oh well what can you do ? kids just don't like basketball I guess." Rhode Island brought in almost 5000 on a Tuesday. Belmont brought in almost 3400 on a Thursday. If that were a Saturday game we'd have probably had 4000+. The NIT games were on a Thursday and a Tuesday and drew 4991 and 5444 respectively. And these examples come from the two years right before  our home nonconference scheduling took a massive nose dive. Don't tell me quality of opponent doesn't matter.

Of course the UMKC game drew well back then. That was an important battle for positioning in the conference in a year where we were contending. Those games always draw well. Imagine this scenario: It's February 20,2019. A Wednesday. Valpo is having a great year and sits in third with a chance to still win the title with a few breaks. They're playing SIU who is in 2nd place. If Valpo wins, the teams flip-flop in the standings. How full do you suppose the ARC is? My guess, 3800 or more and that's in the age of the smart phone. For a midweek game not the Saturday game in your example. Team performance matters. With Valpo at 2-5 in MVC play the Loyola game on a Sunday drew 4040 Illinois State two Sundays later drew 3330 Valpo was 3-10 Bradley on Saturday drew over 3000 with Valpo at 4-11. Imagine if those games had more weight for Valpo in the conference race.

Valpo needs to win and\or the opponents need to be good to maximize home attendance. The winning has to come against good opponents. Step 1. Play a quality opponent  Step 2. Beat the quality opponents consistently. As I have said before, with so much more to compete against than in the past the product must be improved, and the quality of the opponent  is a big part of that but performance must rise to meet that product for the reason to attend to reach optimal strength for those who aren't diehard sports fans or who haven't been indoctrinated into Valpo's basketball culture. As long as Valpo doesn't stub their toe with any bad losses early and scores a few solid road\neutral wins, I expect the MVC opener against Illinois State and the third game against Bradley to beat their respective numbers from last year  despite being midweek games. I believe that the students and town are ready to support this team and the MVC move they just need the right motivation\incentive\reason. A contending team will provide that and the elevated conference slate will take care of the rest.

[4throwfan]

1314, we may both be right, but I truly hope that things happen that strongly show that your are right, and that I'm dreadfully wrong.

[FieldGoodie05]

1314, we may both be right, but I truly hope that things happen that strongly show that your are right, and that I'm dreadfully wrong.

National attendance wouldn't be down if it weren't a generational thing.  Sadly I'm leaning towards 4throwfan on this concept and it's only because that means the slow decay of college athletics as we knew it.

I'd emphasize that much of what VU1314 says is valid regarding approaches that slow the bleeding.  All these things need to take place to engage the region and to a degree the students.

It would be great to hear from a Residence Assistant as to if the dorms are packed on a game night.  And if so, what's an average student doing in lieu of going to a b-ball game?

As a track athlete we'd often times finish practice around 5:30'ish, go to the student union for training table (food) and walk back over to the weekday volleyball and basketball games since we had been training at the ARC that afternoon already.

[VU2014]

I think the Crusader could handle a T-Shirt cannon. Wouldn't mind seeing the Athletics Dept add that to the Gameday experience during timeouts. It could entertain the crowd.

https://twitter.com/SomeonesAnIdiot/status/1042458694091460608