National Conference Realignments

[valpotx]

Slim chance that TCU is going back to the Mountain West, and highly unlikely that TCU gets admitted to the Big 12.  TCU hated BYU and Utah leaving, as they were quality opponents.  Boise State being added helps in football, but not much else.  Nevada, Hawaii, and Fresno State are a poor man's BYU/Utah/TCU, and they wanted a shot at possible championship games in football.

On the other end, Baylor is likened to Detroit as TCU is to Oakland (Detroit would vote against adding Oakland).  Given the chance in a conference where they don't absolutely need just any program to add, Baylor will veto TCU joining the Big 12.  Baylor already has a hard time in being on a lower level of football than the smaller TCU, regadless of having finally beaten TCU this year.  Then you also have the fact that the Big 12 is happy with their Texas footprint as is, and the other Texas schools don't want to give people any more fire to attend TCU over their pompous institutions  .  You just can't understand the hate stories in Texas football unless you live down here.  Texas, Texas Tech, and A&M administrators & fans would have freaked to see TCU playing for a national championship last year.  They had a hard enough time just with the publicity the schools has gotten in the last decade.

This comes from a few people I know that are major boosters at TCU.  Weirder things have happened, but they think both ideas are unlikely unless a few more schools leave the Big 12 in the future.

[valpo04]

Navy considers possible football move to Big East

Though Gladchuk said that Navy hasn't been offered a spot to replace either Syracuse or Pittsburgh, the schools that announced Sunday they were leaving the Big East for the Atlantic Coast Conference, the likelihood seems strong that one will be tendered in the near future.

"We've had very legitimate discussions with the Big East regarding the possibility of membership," Gladchuk said.

Big East commissioner John Marinatto declined to comment, but the Associated Press has reported that Navy and Air Force are the top choices to join the league, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions.

"My concern is not about today or tomorrow or the next five, six, seven years, my concern is where do we need to be, where can we be, eight or nine years down the road," Gladchuk said. "If this evolves into a situation that would potentially exclude Navy, then that's a concern of mine. We don't want this program ever to become irrelevant. We have every intention to play at the highest level and to be well-respected nationally."

Gladchuk said that the Big East and other conferences have reached out to Navy before the last few months, when leagues such as the Pac-10 and Big Ten have expanded to 12 teams and when leagues such as the Southeastern Conference flirted with becoming a 16-team superpower.

Those conversations with the Big East started again late last week, when word got out that Syracuse and Pittsburgh were leaving.

"The Big East got blindsided a few days ago, and the Big East's mission today is to recalibrate what they are, who's committed, who's in, who's going to be a part of the Big East over the long haul," Gladchuk said. "Once they get their infrastructure in place, they'll be looking for members. I think we're in a pretty strong position based on what we have in place to be patient to make certain the Big East is a possibility and is practical for Navy, so we would be getting involved with a group that is committed to what the Big East needs to be."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/football/bs-sp-navy-big-east-0923-20110922,0,5142645.story

Navy to the BE makes sense, but Air Force?  A school in Colorado in the Big East???

[valpotx]

Strong/rabid fan base among the service academies.  I guess it's no worse than a TX team in the Big East.  

[historyman]

Strong/rabid fan base among the service academies.  I guess it's no worse than a TX team in the Big East.  

Or Marist (Poughkeepsie, NY), Jacksonville (Florida) and San Diego (California) in the PFL. Of course with the PFL each team only makes the road trip to another school every 2 years and they play football usually only once per week.

Valpo's 4 road games in the PFL this season include Butler, Drake (Des Moines), Marist (Poughkeepsie) and Davidson (Davidson, NC).
Valpo doesn't have to play at San Diego, Dayton, Morehead State (Morehead, KY) and Campbell (Buies Creek, NC).

[wh]

Another take on conf. reshuffling and how it could affect the HL:

http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2011/09/23/realignment-butler-waiting-watching/

[blackpantheruwm]

If Utah, TCU and BYU would have been content to sit where they were, they were going to get an AQ bid to the BCS eventually based on the continued strength of their Mountain West.

They are the biggest sell-outs to the mid-major world.  Winning a national title in one of the two major sports would be big, but a mid-major conference rising up to join the ranks of the high-majors without having to add "high-major" schools?  I'd have loved to see that.

To me, TCU, BYU and Utah abandoned the cause that BYU and Utah's own congressman was championing.  That's all well and good - they did what they thought was best for the future of their schools - but they were on track to do something no one thought was possible.

Before the conference realignment, a Mountain West Conference made up of Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, San Diego State, UNLV, Wyoming could have added the schools they did - Boise State, Nevada, Fresno State and Hawaii.  They could have added one more, let's say Louisiana  and done what has been thought impossible - completely usurp an existing BCS conference in both football and men's basketball.

But they didn't.  They bailed, BSU and the other schools came aboard, and now the Mountain West is a better version of the WAC.

[valpotx]

TCU as a 'mid-major' is a bit deceiving.  They used to be in a conference with the 'big boys' then known as the SWC.  They got left behind (much as Valpo did) due to a pact between UT, TTU, A&M and Baylor when they moved to the Big 12.  You can't blame the school for wanting to get back to the days where they compete against better competition daily.  Also, a school with $1.2 billion in endowment is not your typical mid major as well.  

Though it does not mean as much with less teams back then, they do have 2 national championships in football in 1935 & 1938, and the award offered each year to the best QB in the nation is named after TCU's heisman winner from 1938, Davey O'Brien.  'Slinging' Sammy Baugh was the QB of the 1935 team.

[crusaderjoe]

Interesting read about the Big East implosion potentially occurring on Sunday:

http://www.beyondusports.com/big-east-implode-sunday/

and for kicks:

http://www.footballrumormill.com/2011/09/29/breaking-west-virginia-holds-up-big-12-expansion-could-cost-tcu-spot/

As a private institution, VU would be a fool to not have contingency plans in place as a failsafe if this happens.

[valpotx]

Ok, that is a scenario where I could see TCU actually staying in the Mountain West lol.  If the Big East schools bolt with WVU going to SEC, all others to Big 12, TCU would HAVE to stay in MW.  I really would love to see TCU in the Big 12, so we will have to see if Baylor can swallow some pride and let in some private school competition.

[vuweathernerd]

as of right now, tcu is scheduled to join the big east next year. but yeah, that would all go out the window if wvu goes to the sec or the big 12. those possibilities, like everything else are pure media speculation. but i can see the draw in morgantown of going to the sec. especially with everybody in the media essentially counting down the days till the death of the big 12.

[valpotx]

well, if it happens where those 4-5 teams join the Big 12, that shores it up a good bit.  Cinci, BYU, TCU, WVU, and Louisville would be great, but I just don't know as it seems every scenario is in place still.  I still think that Missouri bolts for the SEC before WVU would be accepted.  The SEC wants more money, and the state of West Virginia just doesn't add much in the way of a 'wow' factor to add TV base.  Missouri at least has the large cities of St. Louis and Kansas City.

[vuweathernerd]

mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.

[valporun]

mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.

The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?

[vuweathernerd]

mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.

The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?

that's one more thing they have over mizzou. we don't even have geography - then again neither does texas a&m really. and vandy, ole miss, and miss st have competed at least, in the smaller sports, not necessarily as much in the big pair.

[valpo04]

well, if it happens where those 4-5 teams join the Big 12, that shores it up a good bit.  Cinci, BYU, TCU, WVU, and Louisville would be great, but I just don't know as it seems every scenario is in place still.  I still think that Missouri bolts for the SEC before WVU would be accepted.  The SEC wants more money, and the state of West Virginia just doesn't add much in the way of a 'wow' factor to add TV base.  Missouri at least has the large cities of St. Louis and Kansas City.

Not to mention, WVU has a terrible academic ranking (US News #164) which would be worst in most conferences, even the SEC.  No money, no big market, and bad academics makes WVU unattractive to most conferences looking to expand.

[historyman]

mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.

The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?

Has a Big 6 school ever been "kicked out" of a conference once they were in the conference? I actually can only think of one div.1 school that was ever "kicked out" of a conference and that was Chicago State from the Mid-Con. Maybe University of Chicago from the Big 10 but I really think they chose to leave the Big 10 in 1946. Can anyone think of any other schools that were "kicked out" of their conference?

[wh]

mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.

The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?

Has a Big 6 school ever been "kicked out" of a conference once they were in the conference? I actually can only think of one div.1 school that was ever "kicked out" of a conference and that was Chicago State from the Mid-Con. Maybe University of Chicago from the Big 10 but I really think they chose to leave the Big 10 in 1946. Can anyone think of any other schools that were "kicked out" of their conference?

Temple was kicked out of the Big East in 2004.

[valpotx]

Yes, I believe Temple was kicked out due to football mediocrity?  Chi State is also the only other one I can think of

[vuweathernerd]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference

it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens with this. i'm curious though as to why army and navy wouldn't be members in all sports? would they be football only members, or everything but football?

[valpo04]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference

it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens with this. i'm curious though as to why army and navy wouldn't be members in all sports? would they be football only members, or everything but football?

From what I've read, the Big East wants them as football-only members.  It seems to me that the Big East has too many teams that do not participate in football, so it would be easy enough to add Navy and Army since they are independents in football only.

[vuweathernerd]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference

it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens with this. i'm curious though as to why army and navy wouldn't be members in all sports? would they be football only members, or everything but football?

From what I've read, the Big East wants them as football-only members.  It seems to me that the Big East has too many teams that do not participate in football, so it would be easy enough to add Navy and Army since they are independents in football only.

that's what i had guessed. they may compete better in football in the big east than in the other sports, where they seem to have a good thing going in the patriot league.

[valpotx]

Well never mind, my sources say TCU will accept the invite extended by the Big 12 today.  This is huge for my graduate school, much better than joining the Big East for all sports, and gets us competing against the big schools in TX on a yearly basis again  

[vuweathernerd]

this is a great move for tcu and for the big 12. and hopefully this will help persuade mizzou to stick around.

[crusaderjoe]

The Big East's BCS football status will now be in jeopardy I would imagine with the move by TCU.  If Mizzou moves to the SEC and the Big 12 wants to get back to twelve schools, this might finally be the end of big time Big East football and the end of the Big East at least as we know it IMO.  Hello ripple effect.  Hell, even if Mizzou stays, havoc could still ensue if the Big 12 wants to get to twelve.  Where is BYU in all of this?  Very interesting stuff.

[vuweathernerd]

apparently byu won't play on sundays, which is a problem for a lot of sports in the bcs conferences. which is something that i hadn't thought of. louisville and cincinnati are interesting prospects for the big 12, since apparently they're trying to get out of the big east.