MVC Hoops: 2018-19

[VUGrad1314]

I get the hype for GCU, I really do; but until they can prove themselves at the nonconference level and by consistently beating New Mexico Statethat home game is about in the same class as Ball State to me.

[VU2014]

ISUb is appealing to the NCAA to get Cooper Neese a whole season of eligibility.

https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/1047692554823598080

[VUGrad1314]

I hope it happens but I doubt it will. This would give them a much better chance to pick up some important nonconference wins which would be good for the conference

[IrishDawg]

I hope it happens but I doubt it will. This would give them a much better chance to pick up some important nonconference wins which would be good for the conference

Indiana State's Semester ends the week of December 9th.  The only game of real consequence if they were trying to build an at-large resume prior to that on their schedule is against Western Kentucky.  Their game against TCU and the Diamond Head Classic all take place after that, so he'll be eligible for their bigger games regardless.

I do agree that I'd like to see him eligible for the full season.  Things didn't work out at Butler and he never suited up for a game there, so seems silly to act like he did.

[crusadermoe]

Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.   

But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.

Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live

[VU2014]

MSU just landed a espn 4 star 2019 PG recruit. He's unranked by rivals and scout. He only had two offers. I have no clue about this kid but it makes me wonder if he's worthy of his star ranking. If I remember correctly Jay Harris was a 4 star espn PG as well and he ended up being one of/if not the biggest bust in Valpo Basketball history.

[IrishDawg]

MSU just landed a espn 4 star 2019 PG recruit. He's unranked by rivals and scout. He only had two offers. I have no clue about this kid but it makes me wonder if he's worthy of his star ranking. If I remember correctly Jay Harris was a 4 star espn PG as well and he ended up being one of/if not the biggest bust in Valpo Basketball history.

This isn't always the case, but most of the time if the kid is a legit 4 star recruit, given that we're about a month out from signing day, they'll have more offers than from Missouri State and Loyola Marymount.  The star rating system is handled differently with each outlet, but normally 247 will have a more accurate depiction of a recruit because they have a composite of theirs and other ratings.  FWIW, they don't have any kind of number assigned to Brinson, which is rare this late in the game.

Doesn't mean he'll be a bust, but moreso his offer list than anything else indicates that he probably isn't going to be a consistent star for the Bears, though he does look like he's a solid athlete from his highlight videos.  Slow (and kind of low, IMO) release on his jumper that he'll probably need to work on.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/1050431125636542465

[bigmosmithfan1]

I'm probably known as the #1 Barry Hinson antagonizer on this board, but damn that was awesome. Well done, coach.

[IrishDawg]

Haha - the Valley's still a great league, but losing Creighton and Wichita State have hurt things tremendously from an attendance standpoint.  Last year's title game had 8,056 in attendance.  In 2013 (Creighton's last year) that same game had 16,659, and in 2017 (Wichita State's last year) it was 11,744.  Loyola sold out their 4,486 seat arena 1 time last season (Final home game vs. Illinois State).  Missouri State sold out their 11,000 seat arena 0 times last year (biggest game for attendance was 6724 against Hinson's SIU team though).

That doesn't mean that people should ignore the league because it does have some good teams in it, but Hinson's a little off even while delivering a fun sound bite.

[FieldGoodie05]

Haha - the Valley's still a great league, but losing Creighton and Wichita State have hurt things tremendously from an attendance standpoint.  Last year's title game had 8,056 in attendance.  In 2013 (Creighton's last year) that same game had 16,659, and in 2017 (Wichita State's last year) it was 11,744.  Loyola sold out their 4,486 seat arena 1 time last season (Final home game vs. Illinois State).  Missouri State sold out their 11,000 seat arena 0 times last year (biggest game for attendance was 6724 against Hinson's SIU team though).

That doesn't mean that people should ignore the league because it does have some good teams in it, but Hinson's a little off even while delivering a fun sound bite.

Hard to argue with facts, but the bit was enjoyable. 

Sustained success is going to be difficult with the current MVC make-up (NCAA Tournament wins).  It was impressive to see just how many games MVC teams have won in the tourney (40).  However, according to this article our tournament success ranks us 11th (MVC).  Even worse is that the Horizon league is tied for best conference winning percentage, haha!! (Butler really?)

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/bracketiq/2018-03-03/how-every-conference-has-fared-march-madness-1985

There are 1,000 arguments to be had, so I am not saying this is definitive, but is it better to have parity in the conference (now) -vs- having (3) teams that have the ability to make runs every tournament (Creighton + Wichita State + UNI)?  Attendance is clearly what Barry Hinson drives home (incorrectly in his bit) but what really excites me about his conference is that Valpo really has a chance in this current makeup to make tournament appearances.

I am not sure I'd be so excited if Valpo had joined The Valley that included Creighton, Wichita State and UNI.  Since 1999 those three schools have won the automatic bid 15/20 cycles or 75%.  I can only assume that is how the HL feels now with Butler and Valpo gone, maybe they like the HL better now too!

[VU2014]

WTF

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1050736966856269825

[bigmosmithfan1]

So the MWC backs out of a challenge with the Valley that has been completely evenly matched the past three years (the Challenge literally finished in a tie the past two seasons), citing travel costs, and immediately re-ups a challenge with another midmajor league that's even further away?

I mean, fine, do what ya gotta do, but spare us the b.s. excuse, please.

[vu84v2]

Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.   

But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.

Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live

There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.

[vusupporter]

Grand Canyon moved to non-profit status this summer.

[vu84v2]

Grand Canyon moved to non-profit status this summer.

Good point and I appreciate you correcting me. However, it is not quite that simple:

From the article in Inside Higher Ed on Grand Canyon going 'non-profit':

The publicly traded company on Monday closed on the deal to sell its campus and academic operations for $853 million -- with an expected future adjustment to $875 million -- to a new nonprofit that is taking the name Grand Canyon University. Under a 15-year contract, the remaining corporate entity, Grand Canyon Education, will provide a wide range of outsourced support services to the university in exchange for 60 percent of its tuition and revenue, according to a corporate filing.

and later in the article

HLC rejected Grand Canyon's earlier bid to go nonprofit, saying too much of the operation, including both academic and service functions, would be housed in the for-profit division. But the accreditor subsequently revised its criteria on service agreements, which Grand Canyon said made the difference this time around. HLC also backed the deal between Kaplan University and Purdue University.

So, in other words, they did not like the stigma associated with being a for-profit so they created a model in which the new non-profit portion buys a wide range of services from the remaining for-profit portion (and while I cannot verify it, I would bet they are required to buy only from Grand Canyon Education).

Go on their website sometime and scroll through their faculty roster. Nearly everyone is an adjunct. And of the few full-time faculty, very few have PhDs. Now that is not to say that having some adjuncts is a bad thing - they can bring valuable practical experience into the classroom. But having nearly all of your faculty be adjuncts is clearly managing cost over quality.

[FieldGoodie05]

Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.   

But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.

Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live

Is that decision not to play GCU a moral decision?  I won't argue morals, because I can respect that opinion.  I would just add that playing them (if they are a worthy opponent) is fine with me.  But I would not support adding them to the MVC because stability is the name of the game.

There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.

[FieldGoodie05]

Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.   

But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.

Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live

There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.

Oops, lets try this again.  Now that my reply isn't buried within the quote of your earlier statement.  Please see below

Is that decision not to play GCU a moral decision?  I won't argue morals, because I can respect that opinion.  I would just add that playing them (if they are a worthy opponent) is fine with me.  But I would not support adding them to the MVC because stability is the name of the game.

[VU2014]

You can almost argue that Higher Education in this country is a profit seeking operations. They just don't pay any shareholders. Instead they stash/invest their profits in tax free endowments.

[wh]

Lots of reasons Grand Canyon does not excite on paper in basketball-only terms.   

But two factors in favor of GCU are possibly valuable.

Dan Majerle the GCU coach is a charismatic ex-NBA star who could draw some media attention and curiosity.
Home and home vs GCU would take us to Phoenix where many wealthy Valpo alumni probably live

There are a handful of D1 universities that Valpo should never play in any sports due to their tenuous status as a university, let alone as a D1 athletic program. Chicago State is one of these schools and Grand Canyon is another. Grand Canyon is a 'for profit' school. While one could certainly argue that all universities are trying to initiate profitable ventures to balance their budget, this is the mission of Grand Canyon and they accomplish it by almost all faculty being instructors (most part-time). Cost is the priority, not learning and academic rigor. Thus, they have almost no meaningful accreditation and no validation of academic challenge completed by students. While not the complete fraud of an 'institution' like Trump University, they are far closer to that or other for-profit schools that seek to take advantage of certain students than they are like Valparaiso.

This sounds eerily similar to arguments teachers unions make against charter schools. Traditional education systems are scared to death of any attempt to commoditize education.

[NativeCheesehead]

For profit education is a joke. The minute students become a commodity it stops being a school.

[VU2014]

Let's not get too into the weeds about this topic on the basketball forum. I think GCU's some what strange situation with it's non-for-profit status might make it difficult for them to get into a better conference than the WAC. GCU definitely sinks a boat load of $ into their basketball program for a mid-major programs. Their HC is making multi-millions if I remember correctly and have built an impressive gameday atmosphere at their home arena. I personally wouldn't be opposed to playing them if they helped us achieving our goals of putting together a at-large resume.

[VUGrad1314]

I honestly foresee them as a future member of the WCC if they become a consistent top 100 team and Gonzaga starts making noise about leaving again unless the conference gets better. Or perhaps in the MWC during or after the next big realignment. I can see the MWC finally understanding the importance of basketball and become a western version of the pre 2013 Big East. An easily attainable but significant upgrade to their basketball profile (adding some combination of the likes of Gonzaga St Mary's BYU GCU and possibly Wichita State Tulsa Tulane and SMU if they are left looking for a new conference due to other realignment events) would be a significant boon to their negotiation position in a new media deal.

[VUGrad1314]

WTF https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1050736966856269825

So the MWC backs out of a challenge with the Valley that has been completely evenly matched the past three years (the Challenge literally finished in a tie the past two seasons), citing travel costs, and immediately re-ups a challenge with another midmajor league that's even further away? I mean, fine, do what ya gotta do, but spare us the b.s. excuse, please.

I still think it would be a great benefit to all if all 3 conferences entered into challenge agreements with each other--1 home 1 away every year-- sadly, I believe that the MVC is (wrongly) perceived as a half or full step below both leagues so it probably won't ever happen.

[VU2014]

Interesting insight into the style of play/coaching/reffing in the MVC. I copy pasted this from the MVCFan board.

Re: Official 2018-19 MVCfans.com Prediction - 7th Place
Postby Drakey » October 15th, 2018, 8:07 am
Fortunately the style of play in the Valley over the last several yeas has improved to the point of being watchable. I was fearful at one point that UNI's success was going to doom the Valley to a future of 52-49 games. We had literally become the most unwatchable basketball conference in the country. Fortunately we got some new coaches who didn't believe in the grab, stop and flop philosophy and we started to see some entertaining basketball again. This along with some officiating changes has helped make Valley Basketball enjoyable again. Fortunately for the league and unfortunately for UNI, as other schools have hired coaches who quit letting UNI dictate the tempo of the game, and the officials quit allowing defenders to maul offensive players, UNI's effectiveness has decreased. So for me it is not fear or jealousy, just hopefulness.
Last edited by Drakey on October 15th, 2018, 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Drakey
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