MVC Hoops: 2018-19

[FieldGoodie05]

WKU is stacked with size and athleticism in size.  Smits and McMillan are going to be abused terribly...

Watching their game tonight UT Martin @ WKU.  Even though UTM has (5) players at 6'8" or bigger and most are upper classmen they are still getting abused at halftime.

So even if their 5* lottery pick (Bassey) has foul trouble we still have an uphill battle.

[EddieCabot]

Ill State avoids disaster, rallies from down 6 and beats Chicago State by 4 in Normal.  The Redbirds really flexed their muscles down the stretch and outscored CSU by 10 over the last 4:00. 

[valpo64]

CSU was down 10 at half and as much as 13 but rallied in the second half outscoring ISU 10-2 late in the game then the Redbirds went on their final run.

[EddieCabot]

P.T. Barnum once said, "There's no such thing as bad publicity".  On that theme, here's an article from Gary Parrish at CBS.com.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/poll-attacks-would-a-second-loss-to-a-sub-100-team-at-home-get-loyola-chicago-off-your-ap-top-25-ballot/

[may know]

Ha, love the losers who put more stock into computer rankings than a Final 4 run on the court.

Here's a tip: if you have to rely exclusively on computer rankings, it's to compensate for a lack of knowledge watching the game.

[IrishDawg]

Ha, love the losers who put more stock into computer rankings than a Final 4 run on the court.

Here's a tip: if you have to rely exclusively on computer rankings, it's to compensate for a lack of knowledge watching the game.

Final 4 run took place last year.  Has little to do with the results on the court so far this year.  Top 25 teams don't lose to Furman (who is a solid, but certainly not a top 25 team) at home.

Those computer rankings are from the results of an entire season, and also don't have anything to do with whether or not a team plays their best basketball at the right time.  Butler went to the National championship game in 2011.  Now, do I think it's more likely that they were the 2nd best team in the country, or the 36th (kenpom ranking) best team if you looked at all of their results over the course of that season?  I'd have to go with the latter.  Computer rankings don't tell the entire story or always predict an accurate conclusion, but they are much more reliable (especially at the end of a season) than any person or group of people watching games over the course of a season at ranking teams.

[a3uge]

Ha, love the losers who put more stock into computer rankings than a Final 4 run on the court.

Here's a tip: if you have to rely exclusively on computer rankings, it's to compensate for a lack of knowledge watching the game.

Computer rankings are dumb because who doesn't have time to watch every game of all 351 D1 teams.

[may know]

Northern Iowa losing by 7 to Dubuque in the 2nd half.

Some UNItard posted on MVCFans that every team has a shot at finishing top 4 but Valpo. Would love to bump that if I had an account.

[FieldGoodie05]

Northern Iowa losing by 7 to Dubuque in the 2nd half.

Some UNItard posted on MVCFans that every team has a shot at finishing top 4 but Valpo. Would love to bump that if I had an account.

Is he wrong?  We have a lot to proove.

[NativeCheesehead]

Stones. Glass houses. I still think we do alright in conference, but considering our record last year and play thus far this year, a case could easily be made for us finishing last again.

[VUGrad1314]

Father Harry says some good things about our Crusaders here. He clearly approves of our victory over GW.

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/break-out-weekend/

[crusadermoe]

Here is a late comment.   The Valley is really getting some mixed results in pre-conference. 

in the week we beat UNLV:

Missouri State beat Western Kentucky
Another team won a big game I can't recall
But we had two horrific losses I also can't recall.  Not worth my time to look up.  But I remember that weekend observation.

[crusadermoe]

Ok. 
Horrific losses
Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC.
North Texas beating Indiana State

The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.   

[Valpo2013]

Ok. 
Horrific losses
Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC.
North Texas beating Indiana State



The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.

Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another

[VUBBFan]

Went to this last year and had a really good time. It is well organized and entertaining. Traveling about is easy and cheap with a trolley pass and the Arch is just a walk away from the Hotels. Even if you only like seeing Basketball games played, this is a great event to go to.


https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/1072522525236695042

[VUGrad1314]

Ok. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.

Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another

Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!

[FWalum]

Ok. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.

Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another

Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!

Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!

[NativeCheesehead]

This is the internet, we are under no obligation to act rationally.

[FieldGoodie05]

Ok. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.

Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another

Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!

Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!

FWIW the only part of VU1314's post that has proven true to date is money coming from Loyola Final Four run + institutional fit (which means what in regards to tangible benefits?)

I'm not a naysayer, I'm a "let's see" sayer.  It's great that you all are ecstatic, but root it in reality sometimes 🤪😳🤷🏻‍♂️

Presently we have QUITE the MVC hill to climb.  I'm excited for the journey but I'm going to wait and see on all the other proclamations by VU1314.

[may know]

"Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another"

Reality is we left a First Four league for a Final Four one

[elephtheria47]

Still surprising people have complaints about the move. The horizon league is a square peg meant for a square hole. The Missouri valley.....opportunities are endless. Look at Creighton and Witchita State, people still remember the southern Illinois teams of the late 00s, and certainly Loyola now. Will VU take advantage of them? Only time will tell.

[EddieCabot]

"Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another"

Reality is we left a First Four league for a Final Four one

True.  As I stated before, the Horizon League as constructed in 2017 was never going to win an opening round game, much less make it to the 2nd weekend or beyond.  Good move by Valpo to get out when they did.

[VUGrad1314]

Ok. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.

Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another

Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!

Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!

Thank you FWAlum I should add that the reality is that we can't control what other conferences do to try to freeze us out but what we can control is how we better ourselves  as a program and as an institution,  how we prepare ourselves for the opportunities against the big boys when they do come, and what steps we enact to take control of whatever sphere of influence we have. Whether that's one town, one county, or a group of counties--an entire region--is irrelevant. Our goal and our plan should remain the same. This move has made and will make a world of difference on all these fronts.


The main reason P5 teams stopped playing HL and   MVC schools in home and homes wasn't because they thought  they were too good for it-- They'll have you believe that that's the reason but it's a convenient cover label--the reality is that they're scared. This is about fragile P5 egos, greed, and money. They have  most of it, they want more of it because they're afraid of what we'd be able to accomplish if we had a larger share. Go look up an MVC or even an HL  team's schedule back when the P5 scheduled more equitably. Notice how many times the little guy whipped their behinds. That's why they don't come back. They know full well we're good enough to beat them especially if they cede us homecourt advantage. Come into an MVC gym leave with a loss.


Look at the tournament runs. Look what we can do when we're given so much as a neutral floor to play on. The MVC crashed their RPI party in the mid-late 2000's and they were so unnerved by that that they spent a decade+ trying to find a new system to ensure that that never happened again. We may not crack the code again but you can be absolutely certain that the team(s) we do send are well-prepared and will make opponents work for every basket and every victory. MVC teams can and will beat you and if they can't they go down swinging. Look at Bradley Look at UNI Look at SIU Look at Loyola Look at Wichita State. You think all those deep runs and the fact that we have as many Final 4 appearances as the Big 12 and more than the PAC 12 since 2013 is an accident?


Finally, look at our own history. Ask Florida State about their trip to the ARC. Ask Alabama whether playing Valpo on a neutral floor was fun. Ask Oregon what it was like to play Valpo. Ask Maryland Boston College Ole Miss FSU and others how it feels to play Valpo in the tournament. The fact is Valpo and the MVC are a natural fit for reasons beyond geography and institutional makeup. Ever since the Drews came to town we've been the same kind of program. Now it's on the players coaches athletic department and fans to prove this correct.


So show up stand up be loud and be proud. We can't control whether we're given respect but we can control how hard we fight to earn it. So far everyone who has decision-making power seems to be fighting very hard and they deserve our support and commendation. Yes, it's a big hill to climb and yes it will take time and patience because there's a lot to do. That patience will be tested and frustration will be a factor as it has been already but trust me when we get there I promise it'll all be worth it. You'll see. Go Valpo!

[FieldGoodie05]

"Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another"

Reality is we left a First Four league for a Final Four one

True.  As I stated before, the Horizon League as constructed in 2017 was never going to win an opening round game, much less make it to the 2nd weekend or beyond.  Good move by Valpo to get out when they did.

Agreed, no argument from me on the state of the HL 2017.  But we cannot ignore the windfall the HL received from Butler 2010 and 2011.  It was as unlikely as Loyola in the Final Four if not less likely considering back-to-back.

I'm just not going to agree the MVC move was a slam dunk move based on a feat (Loyola 2018) that an HL team previously did better at.  IF Loyola drew more competition early in the NCAA we wouldn't be sitting her praising them.  But that's hardly the point.....give me 5-years to compare the leagues and our perceived pecking order and I'll write glowing "beat writer" esque posts like VU1314!!!

Note:  MVC move re-made Loyola, so I have high hopes for Valpo too!

[VUGrad1314]

Ok. Horrific losses Illinois State losing by 19 to UIC. North Texas beating Indiana State The other nice win was SIU beating St. Louis U.

Reality is we left a 1 bid league for another

Even if that premise, which I don't wholly buy yet, is true, this move has already provided benefits without measure for Valpo. The increased TV\media exposure, the influx of money from Loyola's run, the elevation of the team's floor that comes from better conference affiliation, the recruiting and scheduling upgrades, the improved institutional fit, the potential for strong long-lasting rivalries, and the increased motivation and willingness of the AD\Marketing\PR department to try novel concepts and new ways to market the program, and the increases effort from all involved are well worth these early growing pains. Now imagine what it'll be like when this team is in contention in this conference. We could see Butler-like crowds and atmosphere several times a year. I can't wait. And again thank you from the bottom of my heart to everyone involved in the decision to move us up to the MVC. It's been fantastic so far and I can't wait for more!

Everyone on this forum (with the exception of a few naysayers) should be liking this post!

FWIW the only part of VU1314's post that has proven true to date is money coming from Loyola Final Four run + institutional fit (which means what in regards to tangible benefits?) I'm not a naysayer, I'm a "let's see" sayer.  It's great that you all are ecstatic, but root it in reality sometimes 🤪😳🤷🏻‍♂️ Presently we have QUITE the MVC hill to climb.  I'm excited for the journey but I'm going to wait and see on all the other proclamations by VU1314.

Let's see... Higher ceiling\floor not yet fully established after 1 year but it'll get there.
HL: Nearly all heavy lifting done by Butler and Bruce Pearl at Milwaukee. Both are gone.Populated by commuter schools so difficult to build fanbase Has at least one school (Youngstown State) that does not give a rip about basketball leading to a permanent RPI drag

MVC: Loyola had a higher seed than post-Butler HL teams and took full advantage Much heavy lifting done by Creighton and Wichita State BUT with strong assists from programs like Bradley SIU UNI and Loyola. Strong group of schools still intact with position to add.


HL: Milwaukee and Cleveland State recently hire new coaches No one cares


MVC: Evansville hires a new coach season ticket sales spike Fan interest increases dramatically


Recruiting: I can't prove this yet but getting Gordon and Robinson coming off a last place league finish and sub .500 record has to be a pretty positive indication. Also not sure if Freeman commits\sticks around if we had had a major hiccup in the HL.


Scheduling upgrade: MVC schedule> HL schedule. Even if they do nothing else that's a win but you know they'll work to improve this. MVC teams have access to better series. Look at UNI Illinois State and SIU for proof of this. I feel confident in saying that the last time an HL team got an in-season home and home the caliber of SIU-Buffalo was when we played Belmont twice a few years ago Illinois State got a P5 home and home with Ole Miss Indiana State recently had Butler UNI recently had Xavier Valpo should start to occasionally see those games too especially as they improve.


Rivalry potential: You don't think having two in-state teams with tradition, three more basketball focused tournament minded schools within 2.5 hours and four more great historic programs with pedigree who all play tough hard nosed physical basketball will create friction and rivalries when forced to play us twice?


Increased effort: New equipment dedicated funding drives (for AC and such) hiring a marketing firm the Lake County practice the WJOB Interview new promotions like 219 night are all great early  examples and this should evolve and grow over time. I'd say a lot has been accomplished in just under 18 months since the move


Increased TV Exposure: We were on TV multiple times in Chicago last year and will be again this year That didn't happen in the HL Our conference preview aired throughout the midwest. That never happened in the HL. We had a game on CBSSN and we had at least as many ESPN 2\ESPNU games as we ever had in any HL regular season if not more. It's all already happening. Just because you haven't seen it for whatever reason doesn't mean it's not.


And yes if we can get 4000-5000 in for a big game against Wright State or Green Bay when we're contending as we did in the recent past we can darn certainly draw those numbers for an MVC team when we're in the hunt. We just need to win and keep up the good work that is already being done behind the scenes and they will come. Then you'll see it all start to fall into place and come to fruition. Keep the faith and go Valpo!