MVC Hoops: 2018-19

[tiny707]

Well said VU72. Hoping a starting five of Fazekas, Liberty, Smitts, Gordon, and Robison changes things next year. Should be much deeper also.

[VUGrad1314]

That lineup could be fun. A lot of fun.

[VULB#62]

Word of caution. The last two posts come close to pulling us back into the brown & gold colored glasses view that puts transfers on a bit of a pedestal and looks to them as guys who will immediately turn us around. Let's wait on this until at least the first exhibition game next Fall. And let's not believe any reports coming out of off season or preseason. Been there, done that, and we know how that has worked out these past two seasons.

[crusadermoe]

Smits made good progress. Now he needs to use his right hand. 

[a3uge]

I've been reading.

I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at  least 12 conference wins.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Or nah.

[justducky]

Word of caution. The last two posts come close to pulling us back into the brown & gold colored glasses view that puts transfers on a bit of a pedestal and looks to them as guys who will immediately turn us around. Let's wait on this until at least the first exhibition game next Fall. And let's not believe any reports coming out of off season or preseason. Been there, done that, and we know how that has worked out these past two seasons.

Valid points. Given his history of injury it might also be dangerous to count on Fazekas for a high level of season long production. So I now promise to spend this offseason understating every positive player rumor and observation. I will dampen expectation. I will pick them 0-18. I will react with shock to every positive development. Maybe I'll even change my name to setshot 2 and call for us to drop back to Div III? Also in the future I will only listen to chef when he is broadcasting and even then I will listen with a closed mind. Scouts honor 

[valpotx]

There are a few UNI and ISUr fans that are just complete turds.  Ever since we were admitted to the MVC, those few fans from those schools have been the most vocal about why we shouldn't be in the league.  F em, I say .  Other than those most vocal fans from UNI and ISUr, it has been a pleasant experience reading posts from other fan bases.

[UNIFTW]

https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1101619185275293697

Going back to our initial acceptance into the conference, as I recall, UNIFTW was one of our MVC supporters. He is very opinionated and reacts protectively to UNI criticism - sometimes without activating his filter mechanism. But he also is a keen observer of the scene.

What I got from his initial response to the Osipoff Twitter poll results is actually a bit of a mirror of our fan base (and just about every MVC fan base when you think about it). 55% of responants in NW Indiana (or electronically tied into NW Indiana) stated we faced the most adversity in the MVC. 32% said "no."  And 13% didn't know.  I believe his real point was how could all the respondants really know what all the other teams have gone through when most of us, myself included, only casually monitor MVCFANS, and seldom follow other teams' fan forums (1314 and 2014 being two rather obvious exceptions, and I'm sure there are a couple of others).  IMO, that's what prompted the woe is me comment. In that respect, he's got a point. No need to get our knickers in a bunch about it and certainly no need to counter attack. 2014 put our frustration into perspective — part of our adversity is frustration over coaching, not just injuries or player issues.

This here. I had/have little issue with Valpo I'm the conference in general. It isn't a secret I wanted Murray, for a few reason Ms, but as a stand alone 10th option that was present for the Valley, Valpo was/is the best option.

I've never posted here to flame. I came here initially to welcome. The issues the Valpo base with me stem from basically 1 thing and has expanded as everything I say as a slam from there: my take on your facilities. Which I see, because I have been reading, has shifted to almost entirely agreeing with me - even at one or two points specifically mentioning that maybe I wasn't wrong.

As to some reasons why my opinion is somehow invalid based on those other posts pulled

1. I read, and have posted, on many teams conference boards over the years. The only one I still read is this one. The exception I've never posted on is Evansville and maybe Bradley (?).

2. Maybe the issues people have is because they don't read posts that are longer than a couple sentences. I can tell, from experience across a number of forums and topics, that is generally the issue. I can be long winded, I generally don't hold punches. However, it's not out of a hate for a program it's out of an outside observation willing to have a deeper discussion than can be had in short, always friendly, posts. I haven't been on MVCFans, or any other MVC board other than passively reading this, since about October. My father has been going through some extreme health issues which has pulled me away from most boards as priorities have shifted.

3. Having said that the schools that I genuinely have repeatedly gone after are Drake and Evansville. Drake is an instate rivalry and I won't go into it here but they are fan base I genuinely don't like for their sense of entitlement vs what they've actually achieved over the last 50 years since their 1969 final four team (which required one win in a very different college athletic landscape). Even this year they share the title, but the reality is UNI had a shot at being the 1 seed going into the final week. That's a sign it was a bad conference this year. Not to take away from the job DD has done with them this year and what he took over though.


Evansville is the one program I genuinely don't like as a program. I've covered why at length many places. My thoughts, and many others, can be summed up in the statement of "why public's don't like adding small private schools making a significant jump in competition and what happens when it goes wrong". I have nothing against their fans, per se. My issue is they have been the epitome of private school issues when it comes to competing, yet railing against public schools joining.



On this topic, I, largely, have no idea what other schools have gone through with injuries. I know what UNI fans have sat through with injuries and health issues. I also haven't seen another fan base, coach, or beat writers spend as much time talking about their injuries. Maybe no one else has had them and it's genuinely only UNI and Valpo that have dealt with them. For some reason I doubt that though. Maybe it seems worse than it is out of your camp as your users tend to be much more active than others.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[crusader05]

I can't speak to how many injuries other teams have had but I think part of what is happening with us is this feeling of frustration that has been building over 3 years in relation to injuries and other issues and that the amount of injuries and the way they have happened is atypical of what we are used to. We generally have had the one or two injuries where someone is taken out of the year and we know it and there is no question in the air of when they are going to return. However that hasn't been the case over the last year.

We had injuries happen mid season with amorphous timelines and little chance to fully heal and get back into shape before they are back in the line up. Jay is the only one that had a more usual track where he was out at the beginning and came back when healed. Instead we have had Smits out randomly, Golder out then back although I'd argue we would have been better off just sitting him and then the "progressing nicely" with Fazekas before the broken hand where he is definitely out. Add that Bakari's coming off his third surgery and we had an issue where people are back on the court but it feels like they maybe shouldn't be or aren't ready to be but because of our 3 red shirts (2 transfers and Micah i'm assuming) there was no wiggle room and two of our injured players have already taken red shirts and I don't think the Coach really wanted to completely deny them another season.

Add to that the Burton, Jubril, and Alec issues as well as Tevonn's mono last year and it's been feeling like to be a Valpo fan is to constantly have the rug yanked out from under you over and over again. One person being out can effect a line up, but multiple people going out at random times like whack a mole really really messes you up. I think that also partially has to do with issues related to plays as I don't think we don't have an offensive scheme as much as I think the team lacks the confidence to implement it fully. Some of that is coaching, some of that is situational, and some of that is probably on the players themselves who seem to both like each other a lot but struggle to gel on the court.

I don't lay it all on the injuries but I also don't lay it all on the coaching. I think it's a perfect storm of crap. A new coach, trying to get his own identity, confronted with a challenging situation that is demanding he learn on the fly while also working to support his team which is beat to all get out right now.  I don't think we need an injury free season. I just think we need a less chaotic one for the smoke to really clear and us to see what this coach and these players can do.

[crusadermoe]

I agree.  Everyone should just stop back and take a breath.  Valpo has a collection of good players with a gap in their game and one complete but young player, Javon.  I think it's reasonable that an athletic 6'6" player like Nick could fill some of that with his versatility.  I simply hope Javon sees that potential for next year and stays.

I will say that Drake lost their star point guard and expected leader for the season.  Yet they have been impressive this year without him.  And I think Mo State played without DeSilva for a while and they started terribly in the MVC.  Apart from that I have not followed other teams much. 

[bbtds]

I've been reading.

I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at  least 12 conference wins.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Certainly not a consensus. Is there really ever a consensus on any fans message board?

[JD24]

I've been reading. I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at  least 12 conference wins. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

This is what you've been reading? Really? There may have been a poster or two...keeping in mind there are a number of posters on this board who will chant the same message over and over again no matter how incorrect they may be....who did so but there's certainly no consensus on Fazekus being out hurting the team to anywhere near the degree you mention even if you are exaggerating to make a point.

[E-Villan]

Evansville is the one program I genuinely don't like as a program. I've covered why at length many places. My thoughts, and many others, can be summed up in the statement of "why public's don't like adding small private schools making a significant jump in competition and what happens when it goes wrong". I have nothing against their fans, per se. My issue is they have been the epitome of private school issues when it comes to competing, yet railing against public schools joining.

Since UNI is my least favorite league program, I guess we are even.

I realize this is the Valpo board, but the ignorance in this comment deserves some clarification.

1. We actually downgraded in competition a tad when we moved from the MCC to the MVC. The MCC overall was a stronger conference. It was the implosion, and impending infusion of the public commuter schools which resulted in us taking the MVC invite. A small, but necessary step backwards. Those MCC championship teams would do very well in the MVC. Our problems have been internal leadership, not the league.

2. There is no railing here against a public, and I assume you mean Murray joining the league. For a fact, I am pretty sure our AD is the only one who has publicly spoken in favor of Murray joining. He has been quite adamant about them joining, even with it resulting in an odd 11. There is a large number of Murray alums living in the Evansville area, and we play them regularly in just about every sport. From a purely selfish angle, there is no school UE would rather have in the league than Murray. The only people around here who would be against them in the MVC is the CVB, since they will bring thousands here this weekend for the OVC tournament.

While it has yet to be proven on the court, it appears we have addressed our deficiencies, certainly with resources and commitment to the basketball program. Meanwhile, your attendance is bad, and your high dollar veteran coach nearly ended up on Thursday night for the second consecutive year. Sorry, but there just isn't anything at a teachers college in the boondocks of Iowa that should intimidate Valpo, UE or anyone else in the conference.

Again, my apologies to the Valpo fans, but the irony of an obnoxious poster going to the Valpo board to call you obnoxious was just too much to pass up.

[M]

Not sure Javon is a complete player. He shot barely, if you round up, 70% from the line and was pretty bad from the beyond the arc at 28% (again rounded up).  I believe he will become a complete player, but he isn't there yet.

[FieldGoodie05]

I've been reading.

I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at  least 12 conference wins.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Certainly not a consensus. Is there really ever a consensus on any fans message board?

A consensus of 1 possibly.  I'm still stupefied as to why non-VU fans would ever post on this 50 person forum. 

[justducky]

I'm still stupefied as to why non-VU fans would ever post on this 50 person forum. 

Lots of reasons to reach out. Maybe 5 or 6 of us were occasional posters on the Oakland board with some interesting exchanges. Also can post with Iona, and believe the Valley board to be an excellent place to exchange ideas, observations and expectations. Even those I've clashed with would probably become my friends given enough opportunity for personal interaction.

I've also registered on boards that either deliberately or not never got around to giving me approval. Loyola did approve me but it took about 12 days before I could get in. I'm guessing they needed a background check, credit history and security clearance before they e-mailed our moderators to see if I was too hot to handle.

[oklahomamick]

Mark Adams
‏

@EnthusiAdams
Following Following @EnthusiAdams

MVC Average Budget $3.08M

1 . Loyola $6,194,444
2. Bradley $3,555,837
3. Evansville $3,231,007
4. Missouri St $3,070,453
5. UNI $3,024,333
6. Drake $2,696,222
7. Valpo $2,693,562
8. Illinois St $2,209,131
9. SIU $2,127,894
10. Indiana St $2,055,794

Budgets as per US Dept of Ed

[SanityLost17]

I've been reading.

I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at  least 12 conference wins.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Certainly not a consensus. Is there really ever a consensus on any fans message board?

A consensus of 1 possibly.  I'm still stupefied as to why non-VU fans would ever post on this 50 person forum.

How about this...   If every single MVC team was fully healthy for every game of the season, with everyone starting and finishing the season at 100%.... 

I think Valpo is most definitely between 10-8 and 12-6 in conference play.   All other teams can make their own determination on how injuries derailed their season.   For us, I think it cost us 3-5 wins even if everyone else was fully healthy too. 

Just my opinion.  ---  That said... Injuries are part of the game.  Gotta overcome through great coaching and good depth.  Although I still think Lottich can be a good coach, not sure he was ready to adapt on the fly to missing pieces and I don't think our depth was good enough to overcome like it was on other teams with injuries.   So yes, injuries happened and they happen to everyone and we were not able to overcome.   So although I think it is valuable to play the "what if" game.  The reality is we were not able to overcome and that is on us. 

[NativeCheesehead]

It'll be a few years and a few more deep runs, but Loyola is clearly gunning to be the next to leave.

[VUGrad1314]

"A MVC moderator should cancel the posting privileges of VUGradXXXX"

What's that all about?

The guy that posted that just got called out by a member of his own fanbase for starting stupid threads.... LOL you can't make this stuff up... I thought about saying something in response to needle him about it but decided against it... What has already transpired is satisfying enough for me...


http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5261&start=10

[VU2014]

"A MVC moderator should cancel the posting privileges of VUGradXXXX"

What's that all about?

The guy that posted that just got called out by a member of his own fanbase for starting stupid threads.... LOL you can't make this stuff up... I thought about saying something in response to needle him about it but decided against it... What has already transpired is satisfying enough for me...


http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5261&start=10

I have a love/hate relationship reading the MVCFan forum. There are some really smart and great fans on there but it also has it's fair share of idiots.

[IrishDawg]

FWIW, Here are the seed lines for where Bradley finished up in Kenpom right around where Bradley is (167)

2018: Cal-State Fullerton (15), Lipscomb (15), Radford (16)
2017: Jacksonville St (15), North Carolina Central (16), North Dakota (15)
2016: Florida Gulf Coast (16)
2015: Manhattan (16)
2014: Milwaukee (15)

[humbleopinion]

At this point, all of the teams in the following conferences have teams that are ranked lower that Bradley:
Metro Atlantic
Mid-Eastern
Northeast
Southland
Southwestern

Even if the favorites win all of the tournaments, Bradley will avoid being one of the play-in games.  Beyond that, we'll have to wait for the tourney results hoping for upsets.

[IrishDawg]

At this point, all of the teams in the following conferences have teams that are ranked lower that Bradley:
Metro Atlantic
Mid-Eastern
Northeast
Southland
Southwestern

Even if the favorites win all of the tournaments, Bradley will avoid being one of the play-in games.  Beyond that, we'll have to wait for the tourney results hoping for upsets.

I certainly don't think that Bradley will be in one of the first 4 games in Dayton, but between the 15 and 16 seeds there are going to be 10 teams that get picked there, so there will have to be a large number of upsets in several other leagues by teams ranked lower than Bradley to push them much past even a 14 seed, IMO.  Will be interesting to see the seed lines and how closely they resemble the NET rankings or how much they deviate from those.

[vu84v2]

It'll be a few years and a few more deep runs, but Loyola is clearly gunning to be the next to leave.

And go where?  Perhaps the A10, but they have a problem with having too many teams. Definitely not the Big East (DePaul will never allow it plus they are a long way from the minimum stadium size expected in the Big East).

A more interesting question is "what are they spending it on?" Their spending is a huge outlier versus the rest of the conference, though it is pretty clear that they are not head and shoulders above the rest of the conference (like Gonzaga is in the WCC).