GAME #2 - VUFB @ YSU 9/15 - 12pm cst

VULB#62 · September 09, 2018, 10:46:00 AM

Well, Duquesne scores with 2:58 remaining on the clock and holds on to win by 2. Their reward: A trip to Hawaii. Valpo is unable to answer with a sustained drive to get into FG range in those last minutes. Our reward? A trip to Youngstown State after the Penguins got their butts trimmed by West Virginia 52-17 and are now 0-2

We will have to wait to find out how healthy we are coming out of that loss, but I thought Paul Oren put it correctly about not accepting moral victories:

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However, despite having a very experienced defense there were times when we had difficulty getting the D off the field and our offense was spotty, thus putting the D back on the field too soon too often. After saying that, however, the statistical gaps (ToP, # of plays, rushing yds and Total Offense -- pretty much all in Duquesne's favor) were not that overwhelming. Yes, it's somethng to build upon. Hopefully, it gives our kids and coaches a focus for YSU. We are not sneaking up on anyone and Butler's win in Youngstown put the Penguins on notice not to take any PFL team lightly anymore.

Just a couple of years ago we wrote about body bag games and many on the board wanted that craziness ended. I'm thinking that some minds have been changed after Montana and the two Duquesne games to the point where it really is worth accepting the $$ to go toe to toe and see what we are made of.

JD24 · September 09, 2018, 11:09:41 AM

Youngstown is rated directly ahead of UMass in Sagarin ratings (137/138) and UMass tore up the Dukes who just beat Valpo in a close one in which talent seemed fairly even. I would expect similar results particularly with YSU looking for a win and looking to take out their frustrations of the Butler loss on a team in the same league.

Sagarin has 5 of the bottom 7 from the Pioneer League. Davidson is at the bottom with Stetson, Marist, Morehead St, and Jacksonville(249) in that order up. Valpo is at 239 behind Drake (230), Dayton(219), Butler(218) are right in front of Duquense. San Diego is at 203.

VULB#62 · September 09, 2018, 08:00:31 PM

So we are that #5 ranking you referenced. Point of order: we used to fight it out for the bottom two with Davidson

Assuming a loss on Saturday (that is my evil twin speaking), it is all about how bad the loss will be. The Butler result in my mind is a perfect storm abberation. Dismiss that.

We will be fighting it out with Butler (sorry, but that 218 is overrated) for 4th, unless we knock off one or the other of Drake or Dayton (plus Butler).

BTW, Somebody do a fact check on me on this, but I can't remember a season when we faced three scholarship programs in the OOC part of our schedule cuz Truman is D-II and gives athletic scholarships.

JD24 · September 09, 2018, 09:31:49 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on September 09, 2018, 08:00:31 PMWe will be fighting it out with Butler (sorry, but that 218 is overrated) for 4th, unless we knock off one or the other of Drake or Dayton (plus Butler).

Yeah. Butler shouldn't be ahead of either Dayton or Drake at this point but I guess they get a bit of a rocket boost for the win vs. YSU. Dayton, I thought was really impressive in their opening game and actually played well until late yesterday. Unless their freshman QB falls apart, they'll be a formidable foe for anyone in the PFL.....and....Drake might be better than Dayton. Can't get a read on them since, like a few teams in the league, they've played 2 games which they either should have won by a lot or lost by a lot and they did so. I mentioned in the other thread that Valpo will likely fight with Butler and Jacksonville for the next spot after SD, Drake and Dayton unless we can upset at least one of the latter two.

VULB#62 · September 10, 2018, 08:39:30 AM

CORRECTION: Duquesne goes to Hawaii after the home game with Dayton that is this coming weekend. That score will give us a relevant comparison of our level of competitiveness I would think.

JD24 · September 12, 2018, 07:59:49 PM

Correction on the time of the game Saturday. It is listed as 1pm Central. 2pm local time.

No preview video so far. Maybe Dave doesn't want to answer the QB question any more. It would be fun to see Dave take Todd's head off with his version of "I'm not going to talk about the QBs so quit askin'!!!!

usc4valpo · September 13, 2018, 09:01:26 AM

A Valpo - Hawaii battle at Brown Field would be interesting!!!

VULB#62 · September 14, 2018, 09:58:50 AM

Here is the game preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJSgaj685o

Some followup on Dave's comments:

Against nationally ranked (#14/#17) WV, here's how YSU performed:

YSU WV
23 First Downs 29
395 Total Offense 625
180 Net Passing 336
215 Net Rushng 289
30:45 Time of Poss 29:15

Pretty competitive. Through 9:29 of the 3rd qtr, the score was 28-14 WV. WV then reeled off 2 TDs to make it 42-14 before YSU could manage a FG to bring it to 42-17 at the end of Q3. WV then completed the scoring with 10 points in the 4th. Final 52-17.

The run of play kind of reminded me of the way we played at Montana last year. We came away a little upbeat, staying with a well known national FCS team. I'm sure YSU came away from their performance against WV with similar feelings (as well as a pretty big pay day

)

I am thinking it'll be 42-17 YSU. No way they take this game lightly. And Bo will run up the score in the 4th if he has the chance just to emphasize the difference between us. Although Jimmy warmed up before the Duquesne game started, he did not play. I'm hoping he sits this one out as well and opens against Truman State. Can't risk him here and Chris deserves another shot (plus he's a bit more agile back there)..

JD24 · September 14, 2018, 05:03:05 PM

Predicting this one will be tough. I agree that they'll be no mercy and the pregame speech will be some form of "Butler beat us two weeks ago and these guys beat Butler last year!". Getting to 17 points will be an accomplishment I think.

I'm all for sitting Sewald and playing Duncan although I'm not sure there's that much of a difference between the two. In other words....I have a lot of confidence in Chris and think his skillset is at least the equal of Seewald.

usc4valpo · September 15, 2018, 07:32:21 AM

YSU 41 Valpo 14

bbtds · September 15, 2018, 07:56:21 AM

YSU 34 Valpo 28

I think Duncan has a truly tough first half and Seewald steps in and is able to rally the team but they fall just short because YSU's athleticism pulls the game out which it didn't do against Butler.

JD24 · September 15, 2018, 09:08:08 AM

Quote from: bbtds on September 15, 2018, 07:56:21 AMYSU 34 Valpo 28 I think Duncan has a truly tough first half and Seewald steps in and is able to rally the team but they fall just short because YSU's athleticism pulls the game out which it didn't do against Butler.

Whether this would occur or not if it played out this way is certainly in doubt but the thought that Seewald would replace Duncan because of poor play I think is an absolute as not happening if Seewald doesn't start unless Valpo has no QB4 to play at all.

Seewald either starts or doesn't play no matter the circumstances.

This is by no means a win at all cost game.

I'll be optimistic. 45-17 YSU

vu72 · September 15, 2018, 09:35:44 AM

Valpo is a 32 point dog. I like us to beat the spread, 27-7

crusadermoe · September 15, 2018, 05:41:32 PM

I am fine with the YSU loss at 42-7 in that we trailed we had 7-7 at quarter 1 and 21-7 at half. The bigger team always scores more in 2nd half after wearing down the other.

More meaningful is that Duchesne beat Dayton by similar score to us and led Dayton by a lot early. Our program is on solid ground.

Pioneer notables:
Butler: how did they score a HOME game vs. Princeton? Princeton QB is Jon Lovetts. Yeah, that's the ticket! Butler getting whipped, but it looks good in the headlines to play an Ivy team.
San Diego had to go to Harvard. That's a good long drive.

Davidson won 91-61 vs. a D-3 down south. Three-point shots must have been falling. Or...was it an organized 11 on 7 scrimmage on each possession?

JD24 · September 15, 2018, 07:21:40 PM

For Valpo this game was all about health. Duncan was shaken up late. Let's hope he's ok.

I agree that Dayton playing a similar game to Valpo vs. a common opponent is a good sign. Valpo won't be beaten in the trenches this year, I don't think. Some PFL action next week with Stetson playing Marist and Davidson vs. Dayton. If Valpo's game is close, it won't be a good sign. Truman doesn't appear to be anywhere near the quality I thought they might be. That's at least a 2 TD win and I'm not sure it should be that close.

VULB#62 · September 16, 2018, 09:16:31 AM

As a sidebar to our story vs. YSU, there is the Butler win against them in Week One. But that now has been proven to be a rather large abberation. Princeton came into Indianapolis yesterday and destroyed the Bulldogs 50-7 in the Bowl. I doubt that Princeton could go toe to toe with YSU, so we have a better reading on Butler's actual strength.

BTW, good to see Jean Rene's name in the box score with 3 receptions (from the slot I assume). But we need to see more productivity out of the other wideout to balance Norberg.

JD24 · September 16, 2018, 09:58:28 AM

The Butler win vs YSU was a combination of circumstance which allowed Butler to win the game. An aberration I agree.

With that said, I'm not sure why the doubt of Princeton which has a very good team. Princeton is better than the Harvards and the Harvards beat up on the best team in the PFL. It's possible if not probable that both Ivy League teams are the equal to YSU plus or minus a few points.

In terms of personnel, Rene had 4 catches yesterday and Todd and Brandon also mentioned that they need a WR or two to step up and start making some plays other than Norberg. Sutter was a bit shaky yesterday. I haven't seen anyone at either WR or TE who appears to be poised to do so. In addition, Boxrucker didn't play yesterday so I imagine he's got some sort of issue. A 2nd RB who can be counted on is needed. Right now Valpo is a couple of turned ankles away from who's catching and running the ball? Those players may be on the roster but they haven't shown to this point.

VULB#62 · September 16, 2018, 10:39:35 AM

Yup, misread Rene's total by 1. Nice to see the 25 yarder in there too. How was Sutter shakey? Dropped passes? Where was Fox? But could it be that our current QBs (Duncan and Bilinski) still have a tunnel vision mentality, don't yet see the whole field and the game hasn't slowed down for them? I haven't seen any of the games yet so I don't know.

Not saying Princeton is not a good program. I'm sure the top Ivies would be competetive against YSU for maybe 3 quarters, but still would probably lose 8 out of 10 to them due the depth and size/strength/athleticism issues that are the usual separators between football levels. But my point was the incredible win margin at Indianapolis that put the fluke Butler win into perspective. That said, years from now when the details fade away, it will remain a great win for their program -- just like BYU over Wisconsin and Troy over Nebraska this weekend will do for those programs.

JD24 · September 16, 2018, 01:24:33 PM

Sutter had at least one go off his hands and I think it was a couple. Fox is a complimentary receiver who's effective when attention is elsewhere. So far I see no receiver who's shown the ability to make a play when absolutely needed such as Catrine or is as dynamic as Navarro was last season including Norberg. We'll see what happens when league play dictates a lot of familiarity and 2nd, 3rd and 4th options are needed. Per comments following the game by the broadcast crew, I'm not the only one with this observation.

I don't agree with you regarding Princeton but realize I'm dealing with a lot of rivalry minutiae here so I will say that the Butler/Valpo game this season barring major injury to either program should be a great game.

VULB#62 · September 16, 2018, 01:45:03 PM

Looks like every PFL game will be contentious. Now, that's something I thought I wouldn't be saying anytime soon.

valpofb16 · September 17, 2018, 12:16:47 PM

Went back and rewatched the game, Olojo and Osmond got significant snaps on D-Line (good to see Osmond back he missed last season) , Diaz-Martinez targeting call I am not sure what they saw, if anything it should have been on Booker. Missing Diaz killed the team in pass game and coming up on run. Our Defensive line went head to head with their O-line. Still lack a true pass rusher.

As far as I saw Scarsella, Peifer, Maceo, Bilinski, Kluck were the only new debuts, missing Boxrucker in a game like that was a huge blow. Great to see Markoff back in action. Was worried after last week.

Overall a disappointing final but we were missing arguably our most important player on both sides of the ball (Seewald and Diaz). I am excited for the game against Truman and will have depth charts going again.

We were also missing a two year starter at corner in Leandre

vu72 · September 17, 2018, 12:43:10 PM

Quote from: valpofb16 on September 17, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
Went back and rewatched the game, Olojo and Osmond got significant snaps on D-Line (good to see Osmond back he missed last season) , Diaz-Martinez targeting call I am not sure what they saw, if anything it should have been on Booker. Missing Diaz killed the team in pass game and coming up on run. Our Defensive line went head to head with their O-line. Still lack a true pass rusher.

As far as I saw Scarsella, Peifer, Maceo, Bilinski, Kluck were the only new debuts, missing Boxrucker in a game like that was a huge blow. Great to see Markoff back in action. Was worried after last week.

Overall a disappointing final but we were missing arguably our most important player on both sides of the ball (Seewald and Diaz). I am excited for the game against Truman and will have depth charts going again.

I missed that. We he ejected from the game? If so, when did it happen?

valpofb16 · September 17, 2018, 01:04:14 PM

Yes he was ejected . Tough blow

bbtds · September 17, 2018, 01:08:31 PM

Quote from: vu72 on September 17, 2018, 12:43:10 PMI missed that. We he (Diaz-Martinez) ejected from the game? If so, when did it happen?

Yes, he was ejected.

Mid part of first quarter. Seems to be a point of emphasis with the refs. Northwestern had a defensive back thrown out against Duke this season too for targeting.

JD24 · September 17, 2018, 02:59:02 PM

Quote from: vu72 on September 17, 2018, 12:43:10 PMI missed that. We he ejected from the game? If so, when did it happen?

1:59 left in 1st. Both JDM and Booker hit the receiver high. No angle on the stream to confirm or overturn the call and JDM was on the back side of the video.

Anyone who heard Dave's comments after the game to Todd would know he spent considerable time complaining about the call and the review aspect of it whether right then and there or at halftime. There was no angle to review to any definitiveness. This is life at the level Valpo plays at and there's not going to be too many opportunities to get a review on any play.

As an aside, this is two straight weeks Dave has spent time after the game complaining either directly as in the past week or indirectly last week (on the hold on the screen away from the play). I hope he doesn't start down this road too often because I find it unbecoming of a coach. From the stream (and frankly the angle Dave would have had) there's no way to determine whether the call was aggregiously incorrect or not. The YSU receiver was clearly hit high. Valpo lost by 35 and the coach shouldn't be walking off the field and into an interview complaining about a call which happened in the 1st quarter.