Western Kentucky 11/15/18 at MB Inv. - 4:00 (CST) ESPNU

[mjg100]

That is BS. Do you really think WKU has the money to compete against the P5 teams if players are taking money? Bassey would have ended up at a school like KU. We got Bassey, because one, Rick is a good recruiter. He usually outworks the other coaches. Also he was on Bassey shortly after coming to the US. Back when no one knew who he was. Then to seal the deal, he gave a job to Bassey's legal guardian.

[bbtds]

That is BS. Do you really think WKU has the money to compete against the P5 teams if players are taking money? Bassey would have ended up at a school like KU. We got Bassey, because one, Rick is a good recruiter. He usually outworks the other coaches. Also he was on Bassey shortly after coming to the US. Back when no one knew who he was. Then to seal the deal, he gave a job to Bassey's legal guardian.

All he said was that Stansbury had a reputation as a cheater.

[Goodman] Just got this text from a high major coach: "Other than Calipari and K, no one scares me more on recruiting trail than Rick $tansbury."

It's sort of weird that in 15+ years as a college head coach, nobody's ever proven that Stansbury breaks the rules and yet it's universally assumed.

There are a lot of good recruiters who aren't known by the media and other coaches as being cheaters. If coaches and the media think he's cheating and are willing to say so publicly or otherwise, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they would know better than you or I.

This is it exactly. For whatever reason people on this sub seem to love to bury their head in the sand in terms of what really happens on the AAU circuit and how you get elite players. Stansbury just happens to be the most shameless about it

I think everyone probably bends the rules, but Stansbury is probably bending them more than others. Otherwise coaches wouldnt be "scared" of him on the recruiting trail more so than anyone else.

These weren't hard to find. It took about 2 minutes and there are plenty more. A lot of those quotes came from other major head coaches.

[wh]

That is BS. Do you really think WKU has the money to compete against the P5 teams if players are taking money? Bassey would have ended up at a school like KU. We got Bassey, because one, Rick is a good recruiter. He usually outworks the other coaches. Also he was on Bassey shortly after coming to the US. Back when no one knew who he was. Then to seal the deal, he gave a job to Bassey's legal guardian.

It would have been helpful if you had referenced what someone said that got you amped up because it's not readily apparent at a glance. In any event, fans of other programs are always going to question the ethics of hiring a "basketball factory legal guardian" in order to land a high profile recruit. In fact, former high profile Valpo player David Skara transferred to Clemson because we refused to hire one of his handlers to fill an assistant coaching vacancy that opened up when Bryce Drew accepted the Vanderbilt coaching position. The handler in question was a former Valpo player with assistant coaching experience, but he was not the most qualified candidate by a long shot, so Valpo took a pass, and wisely so IMO. That probably cost us 1 or maybe even 2 NCAA appearances, but that's the price you sometimes pay when you set high standards and live up to them. While there's nothing illegal about what your program did, and had you not offered the handler a job another program probably would have, it is engaging in the sleazy underbelly of D-1 recruiting where a lot of unscrupulous characters hang out.

That aside, I enjoyed watching your team. You have a ton of talent which could translate into 27-30 wins and an NCAA appearance. Good luck.

[SanityLost17]

Was unable to watch the game, but from the stats it would seem that our continued inability to shoot 3's, combined with them shooting over 50% from 3, was the real difference in this game.    Everyone is talking about the mismatch at center and that we sucked at rebounding, but that is not what the stats said at all.  We had 10 fewer rebounds, but we took 7 more shots than they did and we shot a way lower percentage from the field.   

So in all reality rebounding was NOT the biggest problem as it would have been fairly even with a better shooting performance. So either....
A.) We need to shoot less 3's and drive the ball
B.) Those shots will eventually start falling and we need to keep shooting until they start falling
C.) they had great perimeter defense
D.) our ball movement still sucks and we take hard to make 3's.   
E.) Some combination of multiple factors

[SanityLost17]

Although I will say if we are going to shoot a low percentage from the field we do need to be more aggressive on the boards.  So if that is everyone's complaint I get it.  When you don't shoot well you need to be that much more aggressive on the boards.   So I get that argument. 

[valpo4life]

Well....only positive I'm taking from the first half is I had western Kentucky -3.....for a couple units.  If I'm going to watch us lose at least I can make money doing it. 

Hedging your feelings. Heady play.

[VUSL98]

I recorded the game to watch and decided to sleep on it before commenting.  Lack of rebounding and a poor perimeter defense killed us.  Javon is going to be exciting for as long as we are able to watch him!

[VULB#62]

Although I will say if we are going to shoot a low percentage from the field we do need to be more aggressive on the boards.  So if that is everyone's complaint I get it.  When you don't shoot well you need to be that much more aggressive on the boards.   So I get that argument.

Questions:  If you need to hit threes to open up the middle, but your offensive alignment places most of your offensive players on the perimeter, isn't it logical that a missed 3 point shot will not present an opportunity for an offensive rebound because we are outnumbered inside the arc and it will invariably end up being a defensive rebound for the opponent?  I was given to understand that an effective use of the 3  was to work the ball in and then kick it out for the good look while still having players down low to rebound misses.  Reading some posts over the past week or so, I'm getting the feeling that our offensive sets aren't doing that.  Is that anywhere near accurate?

[mjg100]

I hit quote selected, but it did not show the quote. My point, if a player is out there looking for money, a school like WKU can't compete against the P5 schools. KU was definitely interested in Bassey. So was UL. WKU could not come close to competing against those schools, if money is in play. As for hiring Bassey's legal guardian, it is not against the rules. You may not like it or agree with it, but perfectly legal.


As an assistant coach his best asset may be recruiting, since he has good connections with several good players. If we are able to land some of those players, then his hiring brings us a lot more than just one good player and makes sense.

Anyway, good luck with the rest of the tournament and your season. Cleanly played game and nobody got hurt. .

[wh]

Was unable to watch the game, but from the stats it would seem that our continued inability to shoot 3's, combined with them shooting over 50% from 3, was the real difference in this game.    Everyone is talking about the mismatch at center and that we sucked at rebounding, but that is not what the stats said at all.  We had 10 fewer rebounds, but we took 7 more shots than they did and we shot a way lower percentage from the field.   

So in all reality rebounding was NOT the biggest problem as it would have been fairly even with a better shooting performance. So either....
A.) We need to shoot less 3's and drive the ball
B.) Those shots will eventually start falling and we need to keep shooting until they start falling
C.) they had great perimeter defense
D.) our ball movement still sucks and we take hard to make 3's.   
E.) Some combination of multiple factors

What the rebounding numbers don't tell is the alarming number of easy put backs they got off of their own missed shots - especially in the 1st half. Just guessing, I would guess they had 6 or 7 easy put backs to our 1 or 2.

[justducky]

Although I will say if we are going to shoot a low percentage from the field we do need to be more aggressive on the boards.  So if that is everyone's complaint I get it.  When you don't shoot well you need to be that much more aggressive on the boards.   So I get that argument.

Questions:  If you need to hit threes to open up the middle, but your offensive alignment places most of your offensive players on the perimeter, isn't it logical that a missed 3 point shot will not present an opportunity for an offensive rebound because we are outnumbered inside the arc and it will invariably end up being a defensve rebound for the opponent?  I was given to understand that an effective use of the 3  was to work the ball in and then kick it out for the good look while still having players down low to rebound misses.  Reading some posts over the past week or so, I'm getting the feeling that our offensive sets aren't doing that.  Is that anywhere near accurate?

We only got 8 minutes from Smits prior to his reaching 5 fouls. Thus McMillan had no chance to move out to the 4 position and Ryan to the 3. Against a competent and lengthy defensive team us having a 7 footer inside with one outside big crashing glass on missed shots would have been tried. My point is that Ryan is a trained experienced 3 who had no chance to play the 3 because we were short one of our 7 footers (Jay). We will play many opponents where Fazekas as a 3 will give us no advantage but against WKU (without their starting point guard) it was an unavoidable but lost opportunity.

[VULB#62]

What the rebounding numbers don't tell is the alarming number of easy put backs they got off of their own missed shots - especially in the 1st half. Just guessing, I would guess they had 6 or 7 easy put backs to our 1 or 2.

Why can't we box out effectively?  Especially while playing a man2man defensivive scheme.  We were all taught that in 5th grade at Trinity Lutheran School, Hicksville, NY 63 years ago.  It was (1) defensive positioning always between your man and the basket, (2) knees bent stance with hands in front, and at the shot all players (3) box out with bent legs and arms spread to control your assigned opponent.  Those were the three commandments of defense in 5th grade.  What's changed?

One of the pleasures of watching AP play for 4 years, besides his great shooting, was that was how he played defense.  He wasn't always the quickest or the best leaper, but those fundamentals made him a very good rebounder.  I've watched our kids last season and just a little this season, and it seems that when the shot goes up, fundamental #3 is not consistently followed  --- especially by our bigs.

[vu72]

Clearly part of the problem was our foul situation.  We were 9 deep to start with two of those guys being guards.  Derrik fouled out having played 8 whole minutes.  If Maleek pushes hard to box out and fouls out then we play with no ability to stop their star center.  We need J back big time.

[nkvu]

What the rebounding numbers don't tell is the alarming number of easy put backs they got off of their own missed shots - especially in the 1st half. Just guessing, I would guess they had 6 or 7 easy put backs to our 1 or 2.

Why can't we box out effectively?  Especially while playing a man2man defensivive scheme.  We were all taught that in 5th grade at Trinity Lutheran School, Hicksville, NY 63 years ago.  It was (1) defensive positioning always between your man and the basket, (2) knees bent stance with hands in front, and at the shot all players (3) box out with bent legs and arms spread to control your assigned opponent.  Those were the three commandments of defense in 5th grade.  What's changed?

One of the pleasures of watching AP play for 4 years, besides his great shooting, was that was how he played defense.  He wasn't always the quickest or the best leaper, but those fundamentals made him a very good rebounder.  I've watched our kids last season and just a little this season, and it seems that when the shot goes up, fundamental #3 is not consistently followed  --- especially by our bigs.

Good point about boxing out. And it's not just our bigs. In the second half one of their guards drove the lane on the right side of the basket, missed the shot and then followed it for an easy put back while our our guard just stood there and watched. No attempt to box out. Seems like too often we contested a shot but then never put a body on the shooter to box him out.

[a3uge]

Was unable to watch the game, but from the stats it would seem that our continued inability to shoot 3's, combined with them shooting over 50% from 3, was the real difference in this game.    Everyone is talking about the mismatch at center and that we sucked at rebounding, but that is not what the stats said at all.  We had 10 fewer rebounds, but we took 7 more shots than they did and we shot a way lower percentage from the field.   

So in all reality rebounding was NOT the biggest problem as it would have been fairly even with a better shooting performance. So either....
A.) We need to shoot less 3's and drive the ball
B.) Those shots will eventually start falling and we need to keep shooting until they start falling
C.) they had great perimeter defense
D.) our ball movement still sucks and we take hard to make 3's.   
E.) Some combination of multiple factors

I think you have a good point, but this game didn't just come down to shooting. They shot 33 free throws, which is a hint that we were completely outmatched. Valpo took many threes because they were playing small ball most the game (due to Smits inability to stay out of foul trouble), and their center was having a block party at the hoop.

[valpo64]

Still waiting for McMillan  to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself.  Perhaps the right combination /compliments on  the floor with him could help??  Kiser is way over his head against the bigger inside guys...too bad he isn't 3 or 4 inches taller.  Even though we need to improve in the rebounding area, I thought we did alright against a very good, aggressive and big front line of WKU.  Fazekas is overdue to start hitting 3's more consistently.

[VU2014]

Still waiting for McMillan  to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself.  Perhaps the right combination /compliments on  the floor with him could help??  Kiser is way over his head against the bigger inside guys...too bad he isn't 3 or 4 inches taller.  Even though we need to improve in the rebounding area, I thought we did alright against a very good, aggressive and big front line of WKU.  Fazekas is overdue to start hitting 3's more consistently.

I thought Kiser actually played pretty well. He was just playing against guys who were physically more talented than him. I kind of had a laugh when I saw Kiser defending Bassey in the post. One guy was a walk-on and the other is a project Top 10 lottery pick lol.

He made some good screens and played fundamentally sound basketball. But I hear what your saying that he was no match for the competition he was playing against. He was scrapping out there. He'd be much more valuable to this squad if he could become a 80% FT shooter and started hitting open 3s from a respectable clip.

We need to get McMillan going. I think he looks more confident out there which is a positive but we need to him to stop picking up fouls.

[justducky]

Still waiting for McMillan  to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself.

He is playing a new position and he played it against a top notch opponent while scoring 7 points, not turning the ball over, and lasting 25 minutes without fouling out. If Smits had shown equal improvement we could be facing West Virginia tonight. While maybe my short term expectations for Mileek are more modest than yours my sense is that long term he can be good both at the 4 or the 5.

[VULB#62]

Still waiting for McMillan  to get going, he looks lost and unsure of himself.  Perhaps the right combination /compliments on  the floor with him could help??  Kiser is way over his head against the bigger inside guys...too bad he isn't 3 or 4 inches taller.  Even though we need to improve in the rebounding area, I thought we did alright against a very good, aggressive and big front line of WKU.  Fazekas is overdue to start hitting 3's more consistently.

I thought Kiser actually played pretty well. He was just playing against guys who were physically more talented than him. I kind of had a laugh when I saw Kiser defending Bassey in the post. One guy was a walk-on and the other is a project Top 10 lottery pick lol.

He made some good screens and played fundamentally sound basketball. But I hear what your saying that he was no match for the competition he was playing against. He was scrapping out there. He'd be much more valuable to this squad if he could become a 80% FT shooter and started hitting open 3s from a respectable clip.

We need to get McMillan going. I think he looks more confident out there which is a positive but we need to him to stop picking up fouls.

Kiser plays the defensive 5 according to the book. I watched him nose up and the pivot to block out a guy 5" taller and he did get a couple RBs despite the handicap. Yes, if we could find a  4-5" taller Kiser, we'd be golden.

[valpotx]

Well crap, Indiana State won at home against WKU today.

[VUGrad1314]

That's a good thing for the MVC but something of an indictment of where this team is competitively.

[valpopal]

That's a good thing for the MVC but something of an indictment of where this team is competitively.

I would say was competitively. The Valpo team that played West Virginia today was much improved in almost every aspect over the one that showed up against Western Kentucky. Let's hope the progress continues.

[VU2014]

It's definitely good to hear Indiana state played well but it's slightly disheartening having this Team come up short while teams we're competing against get the big win this program sorely needs. There are encouraging signs but I just want to see this program land some signature wins again.

You could probably argue the last great win our program had was against a ranked Rhode Island in Coach Lottich rookie head coaching season. I don't expect us to be world beaters every year but I hope we can start winning some of these P5 games on neutral courts.

[tiny707]

Let's not forget Missouri State beat Western Kentucky....