UC-Riverside @ Valpo December 2 - 1PM CST

[VUGrad1314]

I will say that it looks like we're getting better. Low turnovers. Won the rebounding battle. Balanced scoring and Evelyn and Fazekas appear to be finding their shot. I think we have a chance to have a pretty good year this year. Not going to speculate much on the end result but I think there's a good chance that most of us will be pleased. Go Valpo!

[valpopal]

I predicted that student attendance would be a problem this semester, but I had hoped we would see more than 14 in the student section at a Sunday afternoon game with temperatures in the mid-40s. There is blame to go around: student apathy, lack of promotion, weak scheduling and, perhaps most importantly, poor game-day experience. Nevertheless, proactively addressing this situation with actions that get results is long overdue. I believe there was an announcement at the game that students will receive free t-shirts on Tuesday when Valpo plays High Point. However, I question if that incentive even works any more.

In a message I posted when the schedule was announced back in August discussing issues like the poor game-day experience, which influences student attendance and overall attendance, I also warned about this week:


"The only D-1 games on the nonconference schedule while students are in town don't occur until the end of the semester, Dec. 2 & Dec. 4, within a 3-day period during the busiest week when papers are due and just before final exams. Therefore, during the whole Fall semester, students have only a 3-day window to watch a D-1 nonconference game at the ARC. Difficult, and maybe impossible, to build momentum of fan support with this schedule."

[FieldGoodie05]

Going to be really embarrassing when Loyola shows up here with more students and those stupid scarfs than we've had all season.

Anyone else happy we aren't also talking about dysfunction and loses!!!!!

Two things I am sort of sick of reading about
1) attendance
2) ARC renovation

I suppose if these two topics are the primary posts that means we are winning!  So keep complaining about something none of us can change!

😉😉😉

[valpopal]

As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.

[VU2014]

As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.

Times have changed. There are way more entertainment options these days. Plus look at who we have played at home so far. Less than compelling opponents and it goes head to head with the two regional NFL teams. I do agree that this all needs to be addressed. The Athletics Dept probably already knows that but the real question is how they plan on addressing it.

I can tell you from a scheduling standpoint that next season will be MUCH better which should help out. But this issue runs deeper than just who we play and that applies with student attendance as well.

[valpopal]

A number of good things to point out: Smits had another fine game with 18 pts. and 6 rebs. Fazekas made 4 3-point shots. Good to see Sorolla on the court and developing his game legs. Evelyn seems to be finding his shot. Freeman had another solid performance and does not look like a freshman on the court. Golder had an outstanding 16 pts. in only 19 minutes. Overall, the team shooting was fine: 60% field goal (50% from 3pt.) and 70% from the free throw line. However, the silent but significant contribution again came from Lavender: 12 points on 6-8 shooting (made all the 2-pt. shots), 7 rebounds, 7 assists, only 1 turnover, and no fouls in 31 minutes of play!

[VU2014]

MEN'S BASKETBALL: Valparaiso beats UC Riverside, but needs 'to develop a killer instinct'
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
Dec 2, 2018 Updated 19 min ago 

https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/men-s-basketball-valparaiso-beats-uc-riverside-but-needs-to/article_4c1797fc-fd5c-5634-aca5-8ffea64c810f.html

[govalpogo]

Oh, was there ever an explanation about Fazekas's Technical in the first half? 

[justducky]

I will say that it looks like we're getting better. Low turnovers. Won the rebounding battle. Balanced scoring and Evelyn and Fazekas appear to be finding their shot. I think we have a chance to have a pretty good year this year. Not going to speculate much on the end result but I think there's a good chance that most of us will be pleased. Go Valpo!

I have now watched enough of our games and competing Valley games to confirm my preseason suspicion that nobody will walk away with the title or have any major chance for an at-large. With that said a healthy VU team in February could still be in the hunt. Also the champ will have a minimum 4 losses and maybe as many as 6. Watching us and the Valley continue to improve should make for an entertaining December and conference play should be a blast!

[M]

I'm also curious about the Fazekas T...thought the whistle was going to be on Smits (I think it was) pushing on a rebound attempt, but nope.

[wh]

I'm beginning to believe that this team has the potential to be a real force in the MVC this year. As others have accurately stated, there are several areas that need improvement, but this team is making strides game by game and seems hungry for more. As to not being able to put Riverside away, not all of that was lack of killer instinct. Part of it was Riverside shooting out of their minds from 3 in clutch situations with the clock running down. Earlier in the season, that might have spelled disaster, but when Riverside got hot we were able to match them basket for basket. Imagine how frustrated they must have felt, playing over their heads offensively, but unable to stop us defensively. 

[VU2014]

Pretty cool to hear Rik was at the game. I bet he could play a little.

https://twitter.com/ranta6/status/1069319119730864128

[sliman]

I believe the Fazekas T was for verbal activity, not physical!

[VU2014]

I believe the Fazekas T was for verbal activity, not physical!

I was driving in the car and I heard them mention on the radio that it was something verbal. Not sure what it is. It could have been something as a simple as Fazekas disagreeing with the call and the ref having a short fuze that day.

[VU2014]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo8V71x_q6A

[VUGrad1314]

As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.

I don't think comparisons between our move to the HL and our move to the MVC are fair. It was a different world back then.

Streaming and digital media hadn't proliferated yet

Newspaper coverage and readership were both far more extensive

Campus culture was more sport-friendly

The age and deficiencies of the ARC such as they are weren't as glaring

P5s still scheduled reasonably fairly

Realignment hadn't yet created such  a sizable gap between the top leagues and the best mids

We had a ready made rival in Butler which significantly goosed those attendance numbers.

We also got 4 Saturday home games in year 1 of the HL vs just 2 in year 1 of the MVC

But here is perhaps the biggest potential reason for the early buzz for the move to the  HL as compared to the MVC move: The benefits of the move were able to be seen on the screen as opposed to having to be explained with numbers and metrics. Prior to Valpo joining for the 07-08 season the following things were true of the HL:

It had placed multiple teams into the tournament two times in the previous five years (03 and 07)

Its teams had won at least their  first round matchup in the NCAA Tournament in four of the previous five years (each year except 04)

Its teams had advanced to the Sweet 16 in 3 of the previous 5 years

The teams responsible for that success (Butler Milwaukee and Wright State) were still a part of that conference

By contrast, the following was true of the MVC when Valpo joined in 17-18:

All of their tournament success over the past several years  save for two wins by Northern Iowa had left for other conferences and they were coming off a season in which the conference had received just one bid The perception of the MVC when we joined was no doubt lower than that of the HL of ten years ago. That's why we had to turn to numbers metrics and media coverage opportunities to make our point that this was a good move. I think we'll see a positive change in that perception following Loyola's run particularly if Loyola or somebody else follows it up with another deep run. But most importantly we have to win and make a deep run ourselves.

None of this absolves anyone of any responsibility but at least there are some reasons so we know what to counteract. What we need is to build excitement  either by winning or hoping another team reaches prominence by winning. I expect people to show up for Bradley ISUr and especially Loyola If ISUb and Drake keep winning people will come see them too. We just need time for the rivalries to develop and familiarity to build.

[valpopal]

As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.

I don't think comparisons between our move to the HL and our move to the MVC are fair. It was a different world back then.

Streaming and digital media hadn't proliferated yet

Newspaper coverage and readership were both far more extensive

Campus culture was more sport-friendly

The age and deficiencies of the ARC such as they are weren't as glaring

P5s still scheduled reasonably fairly

Realignment hadn't yet created such  a sizable gap between the top leagues and the best mids

We had a ready made rival in Butler which significantly goosed those attendance numbers.

We also got 4 Saturday home games in year 1 of the HL vs just 2 in year 1 of the MVC

But here is perhaps the biggest potential reason for the early buzz for the move to the  HL as compared to the MVC move: The benefits of the move were able to be seen on the screen as opposed to having to be explained with numbers and metrics. Prior to Valpo joining for the 07-08 season the following things were true of the HL:

It had placed multiple teams into the tournament two times in the previous five years (03 and 07)

Its teams had won at least their  first round matchup in the NCAA Tournament in four of the previous five years (each year except 04)

Its teams had advanced to the Sweet 16 in 3 of the previous 5 years

The teams responsible for that success (Butler Milwaukee and Wright State) were still a part of that conference

By contrast, the following was true of the MVC when Valpo joined in 17-18:

All of their tournament success over the past several years  save for two wins by Northern Iowa had left for other conferences and they were coming off a season in which the conference had received just one bid The perception of the MVC when we joined was no doubt lower than that of the HL of ten years ago. That's why we had to turn to numbers metrics and media coverage opportunities to make our point that this was a good move. I think we'll see a positive change in that perception following Loyola's run particularly if Loyola or somebody else follows it up with another deep run. But most importantly we have to win and make a deep run ourselves.

None of this absolves anyone of any responsibility but at least there are some reasons so we know what to counteract. What we need is to build excitement  either by winning or hoping another team reaches prominence by winning. I expect people to show up for Bradley ISUr and especially Loyola If ISUb and Drake keep winning people will come see them too. We just need time for the rivalries to develop and familiarity to build.

Even if everything you say is granted, it doesn't explain why the first year in the MVC, which presented ample opportunities for promotion of a new and exciting conference, had lower average attendance than ANY year we played in the Horizon League—before or after Butler and with good team records or mediocre team records. I still believe the program elevated its conference and competition on the court, but the promotion and game-day experience hasn't kept pace.

[VUGrad1314]

I'm not necessarily arguing your point I'm just trying to see if there are any factors\variables at play as well as see it from the eyes of the average fan. I don't understand why attendance didn't skyrocket when we joined the MVC. I'm trying to understand whether it's all on the administration\department the coaching staff the students the community or what. I think all share some responsibility in finding solutions but I know that the department and coaches are trying. It really might be as simple as we need a run to jumpstart the program and capture people's hearts again. That or we need to develop rivals.

[wh]

As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.

I don't think comparisons between our move to the HL and our move to the MVC are fair. It was a different world back then.

Streaming and digital media hadn't proliferated yet

Newspaper coverage and readership were both far more extensive

Campus culture was more sport-friendly

The age and deficiencies of the ARC such as they are weren't as glaring

P5s still scheduled reasonably fairly

Realignment hadn't yet created such  a sizable gap between the top leagues and the best mids

We had a ready made rival in Butler which significantly goosed those attendance numbers.

We also got 4 Saturday home games in year 1 of the HL vs just 2 in year 1 of the MVC

But here is perhaps the biggest potential reason for the early buzz for the move to the  HL as compared to the MVC move: The benefits of the move were able to be seen on the screen as opposed to having to be explained with numbers and metrics. Prior to Valpo joining for the 07-08 season the following things were true of the HL:

It had placed multiple teams into the tournament two times in the previous five years (03 and 07)

Its teams had won at least their  first round matchup in the NCAA Tournament in four of the previous five years (each year except 04)

Its teams had advanced to the Sweet 16 in 3 of the previous 5 years

The teams responsible for that success (Butler Milwaukee and Wright State) were still a part of that conference

By contrast, the following was true of the MVC when Valpo joined in 17-18:

All of their tournament success over the past several years  save for two wins by Northern Iowa had left for other conferences and they were coming off a season in which the conference had received just one bid The perception of the MVC when we joined was no doubt lower than that of the HL of ten years ago. That's why we had to turn to numbers metrics and media coverage opportunities to make our point that this was a good move. I think we'll see a positive change in that perception following Loyola's run particularly if Loyola or somebody else follows it up with another deep run. But most importantly we have to win and make a deep run ourselves.

None of this absolves anyone of any responsibility but at least there are some reasons so we know what to counteract. What we need is to build excitement  either by winning or hoping another team reaches prominence by winning. I expect people to show up for Bradley ISUr and especially Loyola If ISUb and Drake keep winning people will come see them too. We just need time for the rivalries to develop and familiarity to build.

Even if everything you say is granted, it doesn't explain why the first year in the MVC, which presented ample opportunities for promotion of a new and exciting conference, had lower average attendance than ANY year we played in the Horizon League—before or after Butler and with good team records or mediocre team records. I still believe the program elevated its conference and competition on the court, but the promotion and game-day experience hasn't kept pace.

Great exchange of views, guys. Interesting and informative points.

[valpo84]

One factor you all have not discussed regarding attendance is how much of a factor is the fact that the Drew family has moved to Nashville. A Long time Family based in Valpo with Valpo HS grad coach with lots of friends and family members are not at the ARC anymore. The local interest has to be down considerably.

[SanityLost17]

Golder with only 19 minutes in this game and only averaging 22 minutes per game for the season. 

Yet he is 56% from the floor and 45% from 3 for the season.   I am very surprised he doesn't get more minutes.

[bbtds]

One factor you all have not discussed regarding attendance is how much of a factor is the fact that the Drew family has moved to Nashville. A Long time Family based in Valpo with Valpo HS grad coach with lots of friends and family members are not at the ARC anymore. The local interest has to be down considerably.

This is a great point that many may not remember is how much excitement the Drew family brought to Valpo.

[NativeCheesehead]

I think the most frustrating thing for me is this has been a growing issue for a number of years now and I don't seem to see much has changed in our marketing approach. Maybe we're no longer in the era of local billboards and schedule cards at the counter of local businesses making much of a difference, but if I didn't follow the team on social media, my tickets would be the only reminder for any given game.

The Hammond practice was a nice, outside the box idea, it was but poorly executed and I really don't think Lake County cares about Vu. But it was an attempt. Now we need more. Try a bunch of things and something may stick.

[valpo64]

Remember that when we were in the HL and before, we were figured to win it or at least be in the top tier of the standings almost every year.  Expectations were ALWAYS high.  Then last year, our first in the MVC, we were picked to finish I believe in the bottom half, at or near the bottom.  We were not expected to be good and with the upgrade in competition, we were not good.  Forget the pre-season wins against questionable competition.  Now this year we were picked to be 7th(?).  Let's face it, those numbers don't drum up much excitement after our recent successes prior to joining the MVC.  Remember Loyola when they first joined the MVC?  Many were making fun of their poor program, attendance, lack of success in a lesser conference, etc.  WINNING PUTS BUTTS IN THE SEATS!  With the demands on consumers from people trying to win the the consumer's dollars spent on entertainment, fans are looking to spend their money on a good or great product.  A winning team produces results...a 15/17 record does not.  I think too many of us expected way too much when we up-graded to the MVC.  It takes time!  While the Drew family produced many fine results in different ways,  now that they are gone is not a legitimate excuse for attendance dwindling.  Let's get over it folks.  We are improving this year and will continue to do so.  If that continues to happen, attendance and interest will improve.

[crusader05]

I will stick to my prior one that it's been a gradual slipping of culture that started in the Drew years. While the allure of a decent Basketball team is something that could encourage people to come my guess is that for people who really cared about basketball they already had "a team". I think of my husband who went to Valpo but had already been a tried and true Michigan fan and that is what remains to this day. While "The Shot" and such were awesome, even by my time there was this feeling like it was just another story of the University, not something that meant we were all supposed to go to the game (in my time, even though we made the tournament 2x) the biggest noise around a game I remember was when Larry Bird came to scout a player from the other team.

So, since people aren't coming in necessarily looking for a team or prepped to be all about Valpo it's gotta be a student culture thing that carries the momentum, I have been around campus through the Broekoff and Peters years and I can tell you that the biggest change I've seen is not in marketing/competitors/greek life competing etc. It was the way the team interacted with the students. Vashil was the last of the crew and he graduated 5 years ago. That means there are no students left on campus who remember a team that ran to the stands to celebrate their wins. That were involved in other orgs, etc. They will need to start over and start fresh. It takes about 4 years for something to die and then 4 more years for it to regrow on a college campus where memories of the student body are short even as they are long for Alums and staff and faculty. The team this year is very much more engaged but it's going to take way more effort to include the students in game day activity and to truly get people out to support the team.

My other, small theory is that students today continue to be over-programmed and over stressed and that, asking them to find a 3 hour time to go to a game is becoming a steeper and steeper ask when evening nights and afternoons become either homework time or time for seven hundred other meetings and when they do have free time they're exhausted and just want to lie around watching tv.