Mascot removal -was there collusion?

[crusadermoe]

Hiding the mascot is just the outward symbol of more mission drift at VU. This thread was started in jest thinking the mascot MIA issues to be a conspiracy theory. But now it appears that the mascot hiding is purposeful and relentless.  In striving to be PC and to blend into the hundreds of secularized schools, we move relentlessly leftward. 

Will the motto, "In thy light we see light" fade away strategically?   Who's light is "thy" light at this point?  Are we embarrassed?

Will the most notable and inspiring public words of Dau, Kreinheder and Kretzmann be kept quiet and out of the public eye as carefully as possible? 

The ultimate quandary for the faculty and President in secularizing is what to do with this darn huge high profile building with crosses in it smack in the center of campus. Could it be renovated and neutralized somehow to equalize spaces for worshiping other faiths beyond Christianity?  In the 1950s Lutherans deliberately built it to keep the university from wandering away from its founding identity.  Is that just a speed bump now?   

Similar commentary has been offered with more eloquence by other posters on this board over several years.  78 in particular.  That is particularly so when the mascot issue rises from the ashes every few years.

[VUGrad1314]

Then what we need is a Final 4 run to make certain the name never goes away.

[valpo84]

I'm thinking for a new mascot -- the Valpo Beige, a benign, non-offensive color.  It's kind of a combination of yellow and brown.  Our new school song would be "Beige to Beige" by Indiana Heartland Rocker, John Mellencamp from Seymour (many outstanding Phi Delts and Valpo people from there and nearby Colombus).

[valpo95]

When I was on campus and the subject came up, one proposal was that we should be the Valpo Lake Effect. It is tied to the region, unique and unlikely to offend. It would certainly be less offensive than the Fighting Irish for example. 

[bbtds]

When I was on campus and the subject came up, one proposal was that we should be the Valpo Lake Effect. It is tied to the region, unique and unlikely to offend. It would certainly be less offensive than the Fighting Irish for example. 

So this would be a crusade to change the Valpo mascot? Oh wait..........not a good idea.

The Lake Effect idea does tie in with our meteorology major.

[crusadermoe]

How about calling ourselves "the Cardinal"?   And use a mysterious evergreen tree as a student mascot.     Oh wait.  That's taken.

[wh]

When I was on campus and the subject came up, one proposal was that we should be the Valpo Lake Effect. It is tied to the region, unique and unlikely to offend. It would certainly be less offensive than the Fighting Irish for example. 

That's not nearly bland enough. Anything that has any meaning of any kind will be twisted and rejected by people with empty souls who try to add meaning to their lives by sowing discord over trivial things. They are a bottomless pit of need that can never be satisfied. On one hand, I feel sorry for them because they will never know true happiness. At the same time they have to be challenged and defeated at every turn.

[VULB#62]

Unfortunately, Banana Slugs is already taken.

[crusadermoe]

In mentioning that VU78 always rallies to the anti-PC cause with me I inexplicably forgot to mention our most passionate and eloquent poster, Mr. WH.     

Was it Goldwater who said this?....or was he more likely quoting someone else?   

"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice."     

[VU75]

Actually, if the goal of the mascot is to reflect Lutheran tradition, the Crusader is a pretty poor choice.  Luther was born two centuries after the last crusade during the Renaissance Era.  The Crusades were a vestige of the Middle Ages acceptance of Papal authority to intervene in secular affairs.  It was the decline of that Medieval authority that lead to the Crusades that protected Martin Luther from suffering the fate of Jan Hus.

[crusader05]

I'm ambivalent about the Crusader as a mascot for lots of reasons but I did never really understand it's connection to being a Lutheran institution.  Now if we were maybe the Valparaiso Reformers...that would make more sense.

[crusadermoe]

How about the Hammers?   As in nailing 95 theses to a door. 

[NativeCheesehead]

I don't know about you but where I come from nailing something to a church door is vandalism.

[VUGrad1314]

Valpo Vandals?  Or how about the Valpo Busybodies though that may be more appropriate for these faculty members who could use a sabbatical so that they can develop a more productive hobby than to decide for others what is and isn't offensive.

Saying that something is offensive to a certain group to which you yourself do not belong is so paternalistic and to me implies that the people you are offended for lack the ability or the agency to decide for themselves and to speak up.That  would certainly upset and offend me if I were part of the afflicted group. I wouldn't want someone speaking for me and starting movements on my behalf.

Say "I'm offended because___________"
But saying "It's offensive to__________" is so weak.

What's next? Should LaSalle drop its nickname because of the horrors various explorers inflicted upon native populations?

Should Duquesne and James Madison drop their names because Duke was a feudal title which was a time if essential slavery for the masses?

Should Notre Dame drop its nickname because it implies that the Irish are a belligerent people?

Should San Francisco drop its name because Dons calls to mind thoughts of the mafia and that's offensive to Italians?

Should UNLV drop its name because it could be seen as a nod to the Confederacy?

Should George Washington and Robert Morris drop their names because colonials represent colonization which was racist and oppressive?

Should George Mason and Dallas Baptist drop their name because Patriots could be seen as nationalistic and we all know nationalism only stokes the far right?

Should Bradley Alcorn State Florida State Illinois and Utah be allowed to continue to use their tribal nicknames?

Should Western Illinois  change its nickname because the name leathernecks refers to the military and militaries sometimes commit atrocities? VMI would have to change their name too because every  military officer was once a cadet.

Should Old Dominion drop its name because monarchs can be associated with oppression and colonization?

Where does it end? When every team has an animal nickname? Won't that upset PETA somehow?

With the exception of the tribal nicknames (Florida State especially) I think most would conclude that everything I have written here is utterly ridiculous.  These names have benign and less benign aspects to them depending on what one reads into them. None of these names except perhaps the tribal names can be construed as racist or overtly exclusionary to any religion. The iconography associated with the name is far more important but even then it's what the individual reads into the symbol that matters most and a university simply can't control what every single person thinks and feels about every little thing.

But what matters more when it comes to how a university should be judged with respect to inclusivity is the university's actions toward people once they're here. Not a nickname or an athletic logo and this University bends over backwards for inclusivity.

We have an extremely diverse faculty and student body and make continued efforts to improve that by recruiting students from different backgrounds.

We offer English tutoring and other forms of assistance to international students.

We have a vibrant well-funded international center that puts on cultural events all the time.

Our Confucius Institute is one of the best in the Midwest

Student groups are encouraged to study abroad and/or participate in service learning which allow students to interact with different cultures and backgrounds

The university is home to a massive array of student organizations and activist groups that to my knowledge have a voice in student government In fact I think they have actual positions specifically for candidates from other backgrounds

CORE class drew on writings from a variety of perspectives. The fifth hour activities only served to further broaden everyone's horizons

Even in our required theology classes Christianity was never pushed or expressly advocated for No tradition was They were presented as-is without comment

There is no required attendance at chapel services ever.

I would say that these myriad actions speak far louder than the word "Crusader" in its less benign context or the knight without Christian symbols ever could. I think we have done a fantastic job at promoting an inclusive campus community and culture or if you will being Crusaders for equality for the underrepresented. I very strongly doubt that any student considering Valpo regardless of their background really thinks: "Wow they have strong programs a beautiful study space and student Union and they're modernizing student housing. Everyone seems happy nice welcoming and accepting and I have plenty of space in which to advocate for an participate in the causes I am passionate about plus an array of fun and interesting student clubs and activities..  But that Crusader name though... And that mascot... Maybe I'm wrong about this place. Alas I'll have to go somewhere else..."

[valpopal]

Currently, only Valpo and the College of the Holy Cross have athletes known as "Crusaders." I noticed the following item online: "In 2018, College of the Holy Cross decided to phase out using the Knight imagery, retiring the Holy Cross mascot Iggy T. Crusader. Holy Cross opted instead for the secondary (now primary) logo of a purple shield with an interlocking 'HC.'" Does that sound familiar? Substitute the VU Shield for the "purple shield with an interlocking 'HC'" and you see the exact same plan is surreptitiously underway at Valparaiso. Thus far, the College of Holy Cross is not getting rid of the nickname "Crusader," but they will be politically correct Crusaders: "The small Catholic college reaffirmed that students, athletes, and alumni will continue to be known as Crusaders who fight for social justice." They have also removed the image of the Crusader that was like ours and appeared at center court on their basketball floor and replaced it with their "HC Shield."

[vu84v2]

I am not going to copy it here in my response due to its length, but VUGrad1314's post is incredibly eloquent. I think that the only thing lacking is that there are even more great programs that promote inclusiveness at Valpo that he does not list. But I wholeheartedly agree that it is that culture and those programs that are a major part of what makes Valpo great. Furthermore, the university needs to focus on what is most important and the mascot is pretty darn low on the list of important issues.

[crusadermoe]

Ditto the kudos to VU1314.   Free speech is available to both sides and you have spoken incredibly well.   

In terms of fact-finding on "potential collusion," we can dismiss the the special counsel for this case I had requested.  At least we know now that the student mascot wasn't sick and that the large Crusader may have met a grisly end rather than simply losing some chips from its paint.  It does remind me of a "Law and Order" episode I once saw.     

[valpopal]

Ditto the kudos to VU1314.   Free speech is available to both sides and you have spoken incredibly well.   

In terms of fact-finding on "potential collusion," we can dismiss the the special counsel for this case I had requested.  At least we know now that the student mascot wasn't sick and that the large Crusader may have met a grisly end rather than simply losing some chips from its paint.  It does remind me of a "Law and Order" episode I once saw.   

I can say with certainty that the student who wears the mascot costume was sick. However, as I have said previously, if the mascot's presence was truly desired, an understudy substitute would have been arranged. I also believe the total phasing out of the Crusader image, including the mascot, is the university's plan.

[crusadermoe]

OP Kretzmann said famously in an inaugural address that Valpo should be a place where "Athens (wisdom) meets Jerusalem" (religion: meaning Judeo-Christian if you look at the context of his other speeches.)  He also said VU students should be free to follow the truth wherever that might lead.  If that led to discomfort with the faith at times in either direction then that was a healthy tension.  The Crusades certainly present that tension.

It's odd that the university can stand high and post a 15-foot inflatable Crusader in the corner of the ARC on game days, but suddenly feel a political need to remove it just one year later.  The old country song once said, "If you don't stand for something then you'll fall for anything."  If you stand 15-feet tall you have stood for something even if it brings discomfort and dialog. 

[valpo64]

To  be blunt about it...this "P C" business is a bunch of crap!!  And the "academics" are the worst of the lot and carry, by far, the largest share of the load.

[Pgmado]

OP Kretzmann said famously in an inaugural address that Valpo should be a place where "Athens (wisdom) meets Jerusalem" (religion: meaning Judeo-Christian if you look at the context of his other speeches.)  He also said VU students should be free to follow the truth wherever that might lead.  If that led to discomfort with the faith at times in either direction then that was a healthy tension.  The Crusades certainly present that tension.

It's odd that the university can stand high and post a 15-foot inflatable Crusader in the corner of the ARC on game days, but suddenly feel a political need to remove it just one year later.  The old country song once said, "If you don't stand for something then you'll fall for anything."  If you stand 15-feet tall you have stood for something even if it brings discomfort and dialog. 

To be clear, LaBarbera said on Union Street Hoops that the inflatable Crusader was falling apart. I'm not sure it was a political need to remove it.

[VULB#62]

His (the inflateable Crusader caricature) absence has left a physical as well as an 'atmospheric' hole in the game day look and feel.  One more subtraction from what makes a Valpo BB game a great event.  Sadly, the gym is even more sterile and has lost some more  "character" (no pun intended - well, maybe a little) as a result.   Sure, the money needed  for replacement can be used differently. But why?  Valpo is stretching to rejuvenate attendance and atmosphere helps in that regard --  living so far away, I only can watch streamed games, but I really miss the big guy..

[valpopal]

OP Kretzmann said famously in an inaugural address that Valpo should be a place where "Athens (wisdom) meets Jerusalem" (religion: meaning Judeo-Christian if you look at the context of his other speeches.)  He also said VU students should be free to follow the truth wherever that might lead.  If that led to discomfort with the faith at times in either direction then that was a healthy tension.  The Crusades certainly present that tension.

It's odd that the university can stand high and post a 15-foot inflatable Crusader in the corner of the ARC on game days, but suddenly feel a political need to remove it just one year later.  The old country song once said, "If you don't stand for something then you'll fall for anything."  If you stand 15-feet tall you have stood for something even if it brings discomfort and dialog. 

To be clear, LaBarbera said on Union Street Hoops that the inflatable Crusader was falling apart. I'm not sure it was a political need to remove it.

Actually, what he said was "it was starting to get in bad shape, and we decided not to put it up." That seems to mean that it could have been up, but the decision was not to. Sounds to some of us as a convenient excuse. Nevertheless, we can disagree about the true motive behind removing the inflatable Crusader (along with all the coincidental removal of other images or mentions of Crusader from the website and elsewhere), but do we really want to get into the position of removing everything at the ARC that is getting to be in bad shape? 

[vu72]

OP Kretzmann said famously in an inaugural address that Valpo should be a place where "Athens (wisdom) meets Jerusalem" (religion: meaning Judeo-Christian if you look at the context of his other speeches.)  He also said VU students should be free to follow the truth wherever that might lead.  If that led to discomfort with the faith at times in either direction then that was a healthy tension.  The Crusades certainly present that tension.

It's odd that the university can stand high and post a 15-foot inflatable Crusader in the corner of the ARC on game days, but suddenly feel a political need to remove it just one year later.  The old country song once said, "If you don't stand for something then you'll fall for anything."  If you stand 15-feet tall you have stood for something even if it brings discomfort and dialog. 

To be clear, LaBarbera said on Union Street Hoops that the inflatable Crusader was falling apart. I'm not sure it was a political need to remove it.

Actually, what he said was "it was starting to get in bad shape, and we decided not to put it up." That seems to mean that it could have been up, but the decision was not to. Sounds to some of us as a convenient excuse. Nevertheless, we can disagree about the true motive behind removing the inflatable Crusader (along with all the coincidental removal of other images or mentions of Crusader from the website and elsewhere), but do we really want to get into the position of removing everything at the ARC that is getting to be in bad shape? 

[/b]

Really.  Where would we be without the fans in the chairbacks!    (Sorry, couldn't help myself!)

[valpo64]

LOL    While I agree that some of the "chairbacks" are not in "good shape"   like our Crusader friend, some of us feel it was and is a good addition to the atmosphere.  While not a real big deal it is just one of the many little things that add to the ARC feel.  Remember when we played Cleveland St. many years ago when they were very good, beating Indiana in the NCAA.  One of their best players, "Mouse" McFadden, when introduced over the PA, was greeted with a  raining of cheese slices from the students and some patrons, covering the floor with a big mess that took quite awhile to clean up, delaying the start of the game.  Talk about a fun atmosphere!