Game #11 - Ball State - ARC - Mon Dec 17 - 7pm - ESPN+ - the Payback continues

[NativeCheesehead]

Please stop with the Tonagel talk. If DI head coach really was his goal he would have left IW years ago. I get the success and ties to Vu. But if another of our ex players coached IUN to a couple of national titles would we want to hire him? Same level.

[SanityLost17]

For me, when we get to MVC play this team has 10-8 talent.   Every game below 10-8 will be a reflection on Lottich's coaching ability.  Just my opinion.   

I wish him the best, but if we are under 5 games in the MVC he needs to go.   I will be the 1st to apologize if/when he proves me wrong.           

[vu72]

For me, when we get to MVC play this team has 10-8 talent.   Every game below 10-8 will be a reflection on Lottich's coaching ability.  Just my opinion.   

I wish him the best, but if we are under 5 games in the MVC he needs to go.   I will be the 1st to apologize if/when he proves me wrong.           

I had to wait till today to post because if I had done so last night I would have been banned by the moderator.  All I have to say today is...WTF!  If the students aren't showing up, the crowds won't either and we will go back to Homer Drew's early years with a few hundred showing up.  A really pathetic showing all around.  Once again we were out-coached, out hustled and just about everything else. 

Depressing, just depressing.

[oklahomamick]

Agreed with SanityLost and NativeCheeshead.

Although I believe our talent is more than the third tier of the MVC.  In years past our talent was more than third tier of the MVC even though we were HL.

Lottich is not the guy.  I wish he was.  And if he proves otherwise, I will eat crow and apologize.  Even though Lottich isn't the guy, ML will keep Lottich longer than he needs too with the likely hood of doing more damage to the program.  Lottich isn't going anywhere. 

Valpo is a tough job.  Academics, bad facilities and high expectations. 

[EddieCabot]

One thing the box score doesn't show is the number of easy drives to the basket that BSU had.  Way too many.

Great point ... it's like they weren't even trying on that end of the court.  Am I the only one who thinks this is related to removal of the giant Crusader and the University's "rebranding" efforts? 

Remember, there's no "D" in "Valpo".

[VU2014]

Please stop with the Tonagel talk. If DI head coach really was his goal he would have left IW years ago. I get the success and ties to Vu. But if another of our ex players coached IUN to a couple of national titles would we want to hire him? Same level.

Just for clarification: Tonagel apparently really wanted the job when it opened up and he didn't get a interview fwiw. Coach Lottich even offered him to be an assistant on the staff but he declined. I don't have any problem hiring NAIA coaches. If you can coach, you can coach. But the bigger question is if he can recruit at this level. Landing underrated guys who are fringe d1 players doesn't mean you can recruit the caliber of players we need to compete in the MVC. Also I don't think people realize just how religious Tonagel runs his program. He's a Godly man and that is great and noble thing but that type of program culture won't mesh with every player and recruit.

I think it's fair to start questioning if Coach Lottich has the coaching chops to succeed. He's clearly not a dumb guy and he was a good assistant but does that transfer to being a good head coach. No matter what I think he deserves a full recruiting cycle to get his guys in there. A 4-5 year stint is when we'll know if he's the guy for the long term (meaning he's so good a P5 wants to hire him).

The thing that really troubles me is that I don't see a cohesive offensive system. either he doesn't have the players he needs to run his system or they aren't buying in. We're not a good team if we need this valpo team to hit +40% from 3pt to win a game against a solid opponent.

[bbtds]

We aren't looking good. We don't have a real shooter, and nothing about the offense targeted for any one to take control, if needed. Our shooting woes continue. Why don't we have anyone that has the confidence or the drive to take over shooting or leadership?

Been too long to put this on the players.  We have enough talent to compete.  We need somebody who is quick to make in game adjustments.   Lottich is not good at in game adjustments.  Get Tonagel.  I don't care about recruiting adjustments.  You don't win basketball games without being able to adjust to find something that works to win the game in various ways.  Don't care what level it is you don't win that much without knowing how to coach.   

If we are not hot from 3 we don't win.  3 years in a row.  Same story.   Bryce found a way to win games when we didn't play well.  That's coaching.   

There was one reporter from a Ft Wayne newspaper who seemed to favour his alma mater, Butler, and therefore we had never really liked that had said Greg Tonagel should have at least gotten an interview for the Valpo job. Were we so prejudiced against him that we couldn't hear his message at the time?

[IrishDawg]

I think Wednesday will be far more telling about the team and how they respond to a poor showing.  They should be ready to play plenty hard on the road at Texas A&M, but if they don't, then I'd say there's more reason to be concerned over guys just not being ready to play after finals.

Previously I had looked at the quick turnaround as a bad thing, but given how they performed both offensively and defensively outside of Golder, I think it's more likely that the team is ready to go on Wednesday night.  Also glad that it's on the SEC network, so I'll have the chance to watch.

[VU2014]

We aren't looking good. We don't have a real shooter, and nothing about the offense targeted for any one to take control, if needed. Our shooting woes continue. Why don't we have anyone that has the confidence or the drive to take over shooting or leadership?

Been too long to put this on the players.  We have enough talent to compete.  We need somebody who is quick to make in game adjustments.   Lottich is not good at in game adjustments.  Get Tonagel.  I don't care about recruiting adjustments.  You don't win basketball games without being able to adjust to find something that works to win the game in various ways.  Don't care what level it is you don't win that much without knowing how to coach.   

If we are not hot from 3 we don't win.  3 years in a row.  Same story.   Bryce found a way to win games when we didn't play well.  That's coaching.   

There was one reporter from a Ft Wayne newspaper who seemed to favour his alma mater, Butler, and therefore we had never really liked that had said Greg Tonagel should have at least gotten an interview for the Valpo job. Were we so prejudiced against him that we couldn't hear his message at the time?

His track record suggests it was meant more as a pot shot than his authentic protest of Tonagel not getting the job.

If Coach Lottich's tenure doesn't work out the strategy of hiring from within won't continue. They'd need to look externally for the next Coach.

[justducky]

All I have to say today is...WTF! 

Amen!

[wh]

I think Wednesday will be far more telling about the team and how they respond to a poor showing.  They should be ready to play plenty hard on the road at Texas A&M, but if they don't, then I'd say there's more reason to be concerned over guys just not being ready to play after finals.

Previously I had looked at the quick turnaround as a bad thing, but given how they performed both offensively and defensively outside of Golder, I think it's more likely that the team is ready to go on Wednesday night.  Also glad that it's on the SEC network, so I'll have the chance to watch.

From the Ball State academic calendar:

December 11-14, Tuesday-Friday, Final Examination Period

Ball State also just finished finals, then went on the road and with boundless energy romped over our "finals weary" Crusaders.

The only 2 Crusaders who matched Ball State's energy level and intensity every minute they were on the court were Javon and Daniel, who happen to be the only players on the team that have never been through college-level final exams before. If anyone would have an excuse to be finals weary, wouldn't it be them?

Bottom line - finals weariness is a choice and a bogus excuse.

[a3uge]

Agreed with SanityLost and NativeCheeshead.

Although I believe our talent is more than the third tier of the MVC.  I know not believe that in years past, our talent was more than third tier of the MVC even though we were HL.

Lottich is not the guy.  I wish he was.  And if he proves otherwise, I will eat crow and apologize.  Even though Lottich isn't the guy, ML will keep Lottich longer than he needs too with the likely hood of doing more damage to the program.  Lottich isn't going anywhere. 

Valpo is a tough job.  Academics, bad facilities and high expectations.

Where are people seeing the talent on this roster? Freeman may be the most promising player, but he's still just a freshman and doesn't appear to be a program changing recruit. Lavender is solid and could start on about half of the teams in the MVC. Golder has upside, but he's still raw in a lot of areas. I think Smits could start for a number of MVC teams, but he still has some major flaws. Everyone else seems to be a bunch of role players with limited upside. Fazekas shoots at a high percentage, but is horrible on defense and has had 2 games now where he's missed 8 three pointers. He's ideally a solid bench player. Bakari is a selfish player that has too large of a role for his skillset. Sorrola is a below average backup. Sackey is basically Max Joseph. Bradford is a 3 point specialist who can't shoot. Mileek and Kiser are fringe D1 players.


I can see Freeman getting first team all-MVC some day, and Smits second team, but other than that, I would be extremely surprised if anyone else made 1st or 2nd team. There's nobody on this roster that is going to contend for POY. That's a massive departure from what we've seen in the past 10 years, even if you replace Horizon competition with MVC competition.


And this isn't all Lottich's fault. Bryce basically stopped recruiting in his last few years.

[bbtds]

Bottom line - finals weariness is a choice and a bogus excuse.

Must have been all the laundry the Crusaders (the future Iron Butterflies) had to do.   

[VU2010]

Excuses are like butt holes - we all have them. And, they all stink.

[EddieCabot]

Where are people seeing the talent on this roster?

After watching the game last night, I think that's a valid question.  I went back to listen to Paul's season preview podcast where both he and the radio guy were absolutely in love with the team and most of the players.  I believe the term "phenomenal, just phenomenal" was used to describe a player who didn't even get off the bench for several games this year.

It might be interesting to hear a follow up podcast where they describe what they saw in the off-season that we're not seeing (at least, not consistently) on the court in games.  Is that from lack of coaching?  Or could it be that the players just looked phenomenal because they were being guarded by other Valpo players?

[IrishDawg]

Where are people seeing the talent on this roster?

After watching the game last night, I think that's a valid question.  I went back to listen to Paul's season preview podcast where both he and the radio guy were absolutely in love with the team and most of the players.  I believe the term "phenomenal, just phenomenal" was used to describe a player who didn't even get off the bench for several games this year.

It might be interesting to hear a follow up podcast where they describe what they saw in the off-season that we're not seeing (at least, not consistently) on the court in games.  Is that from lack of coaching?  Or could it be that the players just looked phenomenal because they were being guarded by other Valpo players?

Hope springs eternal for nearly every team in the offseason.  Open gym environments aren't exactly conducive to thorough analysis either.

Having said that, this team does have talent.  Smits, JFL, Fazekas, Golder and Lavender are all solid to good pieces in place.  Offensively, the biggest issue is Evelyn and his shooting.  Defensively, it's rebounding, which doesn't have a lot to do with talent unless the team is significantly smaller than their opponents, but this is a team with above average height (112th) per Kenpom. 

Defense is the biggest issue facing the team right now, and Paul and those guys wouldn't have been able to get a great feel for that during the offseason.

Also, my comment on the team not being ready after finals week wasn't me making an excuse for them.  It was a statement of fact.  They weren't ready for the game after finals week.  No clue to the reason(s) why.

[vu84v2]

Please stop with the Tonagel talk. If DI head coach really was his goal he would have left IW years ago. I get the success and ties to Vu. But if another of our ex players coached IUN to a couple of national titles would we want to hire him? Same level.

Just for clarification: Tonagel apparently really wanted the job when it opened up and he didn't get a interview fwiw. Coach Lottich even offered him to be an assistant on the staff but he declined. I don't have any problem hiring NAIA coaches. If you can coach, you can coach. But the bigger question is if he can recruit at this level. Landing underrated guys who are fringe d1 players doesn't mean you can recruit the caliber of players we need to compete in the MVC. Also I don't think people realize just how religious Tonagel runs his program. He's a Godly man and that is great and noble thing but that type of program culture won't mesh with every player and recruit.

I think it's fair to start questioning if Coach Lottich has the coaching chops to succeed. He's clearly not a dumb guy and he was a good assistant but does that transfer to being a good head coach. No matter what I think he deserves a full recruiting cycle to get his guys in there. A 4-5 year stint is when we'll know if he's the guy for the long term (meaning he's so good a P5 wants to hire him).

The thing that really troubles me is that I don't see a cohesive offensive system. either he doesn't have the players he needs to run his system or they aren't buying in. We're not a good team if we need this valpo team to hit +40% from 3pt to win a game against a solid opponent.

Agree fully with this post. Lottich is smart, but there seems to be no offensive cohesiveness and a lack of effort from many players. Last night was not a case of missing shots - it was a case of not getting them due to no offensive execution. I like to think that there is a process towards things coming together, but I really wonder. I really want to give him a chance, but things do not look promising with teams comprised of players he recruited.

As far as Tonagel - great guy and great coach. He certainly has all the ability to coach at the D1 level. But if he cannot separate his personal religious beliefs from coaching, he does not belong at Valpo. To be clear, I specifically mean that he does not belong at Valpo if he would evangelize to players or require involvement in activities associated with his faith. Bryce and Homer certainly did separate their religious beliefs from their coaching and they had (as best as I can tell) quite a few players who were indifferent or agnostic towards religion (and some of these are all-time greats and favorites at Valpo). Bryce, no doubt, continues to do that at Vanderbilt (Scott is allowed to integrate his faith at Baylor - but that is Baylor, not Valpo). There might be a few D1 schools that would allow that and Tonagel would probably only get consideration from those schools.

[usc4valpo]

Regarding the apathy and down slide, Valpo athletics need some out of the box thinking and carry resolutions proactively. Valpo is always in reactive mode and we are always behind the times.

[valpo64]

Our bigs were intimidated by their counterparts from BSU, especially Smits.  After several great performances, tonight he was the opposite.  Between our "bigs", they had 5 points and  a few rebounds.  Jay is still looking for his game after returning from his injury, but "21".  His sitting on the bench was well deserved.  His Indy area opposite showed who was boss in this game.  I imagine they played against each other in high school.  Last night it was no contest in the middle.  I wonder how many points BSU scored in the paint.  Absolutely no defense on our part when it came to defending the lane.  Very, very disappointing  performance.  We appeared to play hard about 5 minutes about mid-way through the 2nd half but before and after that, it looked like nobody cared,  BSU wanted it more than we did...and it showed.  Time to regroup and give Texas A & M a game.

[VULB#62]

Regarding the apathy and down slide, Valpo athletics need some out of the box thinking and carry resolutions proactively. Valpo is always in reactive mode and we are always behind the times.

Face it. For Valpo to reach the next level competitively the administration will have to go PRO-Athletics and recognize that athletics are the vehicle to make the university natinally recognized. I don't see that happening any time soon.
Agustana in SD is gonna go D-I very soon and join the  Summit. With 1800 students they have invested multi-millions in athletics facilities ( 6,500 FB stadium, 4,000+ Chairback seats arena, FB indoor practice facility, on and on).

[VUGrad1314]

Regarding the apathy and down slide, Valpo athletics need some out of the box thinking and carry resolutions proactively. Valpo is always in reactive mode and we are always behind the times.

Face it. For Valpo to reach the next level competitively the administration will have to go PRO-Athletics and recognize that athletics are the vehicle to make the university natinally recognized. I don't see that happening any time soon. Agustana in SD is gonna go D-I very soon and join the  Summit. With 1800 students they have invested multi-millions in athletics facilities ( 6,500 FB stadium, 4,000+ Chairback seats arena, FB indoor practice facility, on and on).

They also have a billionaire backer driving the whole thing. Do we have one of those?

[NativeCheesehead]

Gus isn't a billionaire?

[VULB#62]

They also have a billionaire backer driving the whole thing. Do we have one of those?

We might, but where is he or she?  I may be way off, but my agenda is to advance the national brand, recognition and profile of the university beyond NW Indiana. I have so many great memories in my four very short years. My problem:  I don't have the available bucks — far from it.

I applaud the chapel enhancement. I applaud the welcome center.  They certainly add to the wonderful campus environment that students can enjoy.    However.............

....... how effectively do those gifts realistically forward the national brand, recognition and profile of the university in a way that exposure on national TV and the media our athletic program does?

Donors need to be educated about the modern facts of life of higher education survival. Their (our) money needs to be placed strategically to advance the university in a blood thirsty higher education environment.

We have evidence. Exhibit #1 - St Joe's. Exhibit #2 - in the Boston area, last year Mt Ida College shut their doors.  Newbury College recruited the now abandoned Mt. Ida students. This week Newbury College announced their doors are closing at the end of the academic year. Jeeeez!

Private institutions have to work twice as hard as state institutions to fortify their financial base and today the need to focus on national exposure is mandatory. 

[VU2010]

Well-said by all. Will they reach out to alum and potential donors? Listen to what we think? Maybe they'd be pleasantly surprised by our ideas, take note of our concerns, learn from our perspective, and maybe even find out who would be interested and able to support an investment in our national brand. I ha e a hard time believing g - for instance - White Lodging or Luke Oil or Family Express etc. wouldn't consider sponsoring.

If those sorts of ideas / convos are already floating around - let us know!!! If not, let's meet ... what can it hurt?

[wh]

Gus isn't a billionaire?

Nowhere close, and far more likely to donate FE-branded bottled water than cash.