Valpo vs Illinois State - 1/2

[crusader05]

I think this team's journey the last few years has been emotionally exhausting for everyone, fans, players and coaches and I hope it steadies out. BUT if it's gonna be a roller coaster I'm not gonna deny myself reveling in the highs just cause another low may be around the corner

[valpopal]

Having had time to enjoy last night's win, and to put things in perspective, I thought it might be instructive to look at the Illinois State fan messages and see what our board might have been like had the improbable not have happened. They are distraught, some declaring their season over and others calling for both the coach and the AD to be fired. Imagine how different this thread would be if Illinois State didn't commit a couple of offensive fouls (calls I doubt Valpo would have got last year), foul a 3-point shot, miss front ends of two one-and-ones, have the rebound conveniently fall uncontested right into Golder's hands, and then watch while Markus heaved a half-court prayer just in time that somehow went in at the buzzer. Let's be honest: we'd be trying to coax some on this board away from the ledge and imploring them not to jump.   

[VUGrad1314]

Let's not forget them getting nothing on the (terrible) flagrant call on Bakari. Big time kudos to the crowd for being animated and making it tough on them at that point(really they were great all night). This clip certainly came to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPpIzaanhY

[VUGrad1314]

But I will happily acknowledge that there were plenty of rough calls on both sides. That's true of any game that's close. Last night was as simple as this:

In crunch time: A team's effort and execution determines the ending

[valpopal]

Let's not forget them getting nothing on the (terrible) flagrant call on Bakari. Big time kudos to the crowd for being animated and making it tough on them at that point(really they were great all night).

Amazingly, the Vegas oddsmakers had Valpo a 2-point favorite solely based upon the home court advantage. Fortunately the home crowd came through on this night, and somehow Valpo won by those 2 points.

[FieldGoodie05]

We didn't used to have to win by grit.  We won by skill and better teamwork.

We also used to play in the Horizon League, not the Missouri Valley Conference.

Bingo. Literally every successful MVC team I've ever seen that has won in the tournament from Wichita State to UNI to Bradley to SIU to Loyola has been marked by its grit. There is no glory without grit in the MVC. Grit is what allows this league to consistently challenge and beat P5 schools. The MVC embodies the axiom "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Now I believe that we have a talented team, even if the results are inconsistent, and when talent and grit come together on the same team, then you can see some truly special things happen (See: Loyola last year and 2013 Wichita State.) We are heading in the right direction as long as we never lose sight of what got us this win. When our talent catches up to our grit, we could be in for a historic year.

Anyone else starting to dislike the word "grit" besides me?

[NativeCheesehead]

This is the season in which we get to see how good, or not good, Lottich is as a coach. If this team finishes .500 or better and is competitive in one or more games in St. Louis, the stage is set for what could be a really good year in 19-20.

The talent is there. I believe 2 or 3 games would have been swung this year with a healthy and productive Bakari. But the offense is still the same night after night. And our in bounds plays are never designed to get shots, only to get the ball in. Last night a token press kept us from making our first pass in the set offense until 18-15 seconds left on the shot clock. These problems HAVE to be rectified.

I'm cautiously optimistic after last night. If we can find a way to channel the offensive urgency we played with the last two minutes and use it the entire game, we'll be tough to stop.

[VUGrad1314]

We didn't used to have to win by grit.  We won by skill and better teamwork.

We also used to play in the Horizon League, not the Missouri Valley Conference.

Bingo. Literally every successful MVC team I've ever seen that has won in the tournament from Wichita State to UNI to Bradley to SIU to Loyola has been marked by its grit. There is no glory without grit in the MVC. Grit is what allows this league to consistently challenge and beat P5 schools. The MVC embodies the axiom "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Now I believe that we have a talented team, even if the results are inconsistent, and when talent and grit come together on the same team, then you can see some truly special things happen (See: Loyola last year and 2013 Wichita State.) We are heading in the right direction as long as we never lose sight of what got us this win. When our talent catches up to our grit, we could be in for a historic year.

Anyone else starting to dislike the word "grit" besides me?

Why? This team needed an identity. Now it might have one. That's not a bad thing. Do you think Wichita State fans get tired of Play Angry? Probably not because that's part of who they are. If grit\gritty becomes our central identity\rallying cry\unifying principle then so be it. Having an identity surely beats the alternative.

[VULB#62]

Smart at VCU used "Chaos" and his teams played that way - and won.  Grit or gritty is a style that can be passed on year to year that molds both a player's and, by extension, a team's personality.  It also creates an identity and reputation if handled properly (as in, gritty is NOT dirty).  It can be a useful recruiting tool as well.  It establishes in recruits' minds the type of team they would join.  Finally, the combination of our ARC bandbox coupled with a team that keeps coming at you relentlessly for 40 minutes makes for an awesome home court advantage. Teams would not be happy coming into our gym  -- ever.

In retrospect, Matt's adoption of this term at the conclusion of the OOC schedule is brilliant, IMO.  Why?  Because if he were to have made this the theme of the season from day one, it might not have had the same impact.  It might have been just another catch phrase open to individual players' interpretations.  But these kids slogged their way through the OOC schedule and experienced disappointments and realized they weren't living up to their pre-season clippings.  They finally realized collectively what playing without intensity (grit) really meant  and what it produced.  The comparison between the OOC team and last night's team was like night and day.  Matt can now always go back to that contrast and the kids will know exactly what he's talking about.

[VUGrad1314]

.  Finally, the combination of our ARC bandbox coupled with a team that keep coming at you relentlessly for 40 minutes makes for an awesome home court advantage. Teams would not be happy coming into our gym  -- ever.

Oh goody more scheduling issues. Just kidding. Even if it causes those I will gladly accept that trade

[wh]

I think this team's journey the last few years has been emotionally exhausting for everyone, fans, players and coaches and I hope it steadies out. BUT if it's gonna be a roller coaster I'm not gonna deny myself reveling in the highs just cause another low may be around the corner

My sentiments exactly. I reveled in the shot and celebration, exchanged fist bumps and high fives, floated out to my car, and got on the board as soon as I got home to take in all the awesome comments from the brotherhood (and "liked" everyone of them). I'm still riding the high today because hope springs eternal once again. 

[vu72]

Let's not forget them getting nothing on the (terrible) flagrant call on Bakari.

That is not the way Todd and Dave saw it.  He clearly had the guys arm hooked and apparently that is an automatic flagrant 1 call.

This from an article copied below:

According to the new rules, if a player gets beat on positioning and then hooks arms in an attempt to keep the other player from securing the rebound, that is considered a Flagrant 1 foul.

https://www.nkytribune.com/2018/11/not-really-a-case-of-foul-play-new-ncaa-rules-make-early-season-impact-on-unbeaten-nku/

[oklahomamick]

Valpo1314 - you continue to refer Wichita st has having this same type of "grit". I'm interested if you think valpo always had this grit with the program was winning conference championships, tournament championships, (las Vegas tourney too) and making it to Nit final.  Grit is an ingredient to success.  But only a variable and a certain percentage. 

The other variable include skill, teamwork and tactical awareness with every player having a role.

[oklahomamick]

So this new valpo basketball identity of grit is like
VCU - chaos

or Wichita st - play angry

What about the Butler way?  What was the Butler way?  Besides beating up on the HL for 10 years?

When I traveled to away games valpo fans traveled well and were thought of as high basketball IQ.

Not just play hard....

Let's run some inbound plays and confuse the opposition.  Let run a good confusing half court offense

Otherwise let's run and gun press and get hoops.  We have the athletes and GRIT.

[VUGrad1314]

It's ebbed and flowed. The latter Broekhoff teams had some The Lexus\Jubril\Peters teams absolutely had it I just feel like it's more obvious as a factor now Maybe that's due to other limitations. It was starting to wane but now it's back and I'll take that as a massive victory  and I choose to believe in and support obvious signs of progress. I believe he will improve tactically as well especially as familiarity with the MVC grows.

[VUGrad1314]

I feel like there's a choice here for us fans: we can pine for how things were under a coach who is never coming back or we can throw our support behind and celebrate the improvement of the guy we have. I choose the latter. Let's be fair he's showing increasing flashes that indicate that the lightbulb is about to come on in a big way.

We are a respectable 5-5 against MVC competition since the Indiana State game last year which I thought was a turning point. That's clear progress.

[crusader05]

I think there's a difference between having a team identity/motto to lean on that represents culture that is seperate from the whole Basketball IQ thing.
Grit is just not giving up, being relentless and not caring if you get your teeth knocked out as long as you get back up.

It's what helps you keep moving when the finer point things aren't working. It's how you deal with injury, loss of playing time, upsetting loses, struggles to find the flow. It's a motivator and it gives them something to move towards that keeps them out of their head in a bad way.
I see nothing that says we are no longer going to work on offense or finer skills just because the coach has decided his team needed to mentally toughen up. Grit is a pep talk, it's not the plays.

[VUGrad1314]

I sat right behind Matt He asked for movement from the players on several occasions. He tells them to communicate. He's absolutely coaching things other than grit. He's just laying a foundation here. If you don't play with energy and intensity. if you aren't gritty on the boards or in the passing lanes getting after loose balls it doesn't matter what offense you run it won't work. He's simplifying the game. Take care of the basics control what you can control (your effort your energy your intensity your focus your attitude etc) and the more difficult aspects will fall into place.

Good defense(caused largely by effort)-turnovers-easy baskets-shooting confidence-more made shots-runs-leads-wins-championships.

There. There's the causal link between grit and winning the MVC.

[VULB#62]

I think there's a difference between having a team identity/motto to lean on that represents culture that is seperate from the whole Basketball IQ thing.
Grit is just not giving up, being relentless and not caring if you get your teeth knocked out as long as you get back up.

It's what helps you keep moving when the finer point things aren't working. It's how you deal with injury, loss of playing time, upsetting loses, struggles to find the flow. It's a motivator and it gives them something to move towards that keeps them out of their head in a bad way.
I see nothing that says we are no longer going to work on offense or finer skills just because the coach has decided his team needed to mentally toughen up. Grit is a pep talk, it's not the plays.

There are many skilled teams running imaginative offenses that get beat because their egos are bigger than their hearts.  Loyola held ISUb to 12 points in the first half last night -- that takes grit.   That meant they needed to only find a way to score 13 to go into the locker room ahead at the half (they got 46).  I'll start with talent with heart and build on that.

[justducky]

We are a respectable 5-5 against MVC competition since the Indiana State game last year which I thought was a turning point. That's clear progress.

Good point! In February we were a shorthanded, less experienced, less talented mess who competed defensively as our only way to stay in games. If we can defend well every night that alone could get us to 7-11 or 8-10. If we can get some offense going who knows what our upside could be.

[VUGrad1314]

Speaking of emerging leaders: did anybody else hear Sackey at the end of the ValpoAthletics recording of the shot? As he's walking off the court his arm around Golder you can hear him say: "Thats what I'm talking about! way to stay positive!" These freshmen will be leading voices on the team sooner rather than later. I firmly believe it.

Take a listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6TyKlSfeds

[crusader05]

I thought I remember one of the strengths of recruiting him that was mentioned when he first signed was that he was vocal and could fill a role as a floor general and a motivator on the team.

[FieldGoodie05]

We didn't used to have to win by grit.  We won by skill and better teamwork.

We also used to play in the Horizon League, not the Missouri Valley Conference.

Bingo. Literally every successful MVC team I've ever seen that has won in the tournament from Wichita State to UNI to Bradley to SIU to Loyola has been marked by its grit. There is no glory without grit in the MVC. Grit is what allows this league to consistently challenge and beat P5 schools. The MVC embodies the axiom "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." Now I believe that we have a talented team, even if the results are inconsistent, and when talent and grit come together on the same team, then you can see some truly special things happen (See: Loyola last year and 2013 Wichita State.) We are heading in the right direction as long as we never lose sight of what got us this win. When our talent catches up to our grit, we could be in for a historic year.

Anyone else starting to dislike the word "grit" besides me?

Why? This team needed an identity. Now it might have one. That's not a bad thing. Do you think Wichita State fans get tired of Play Angry? Probably not because that's part of who they are. If grit\gritty becomes our central identity\rallying cry\unifying principle then so be it. Having an identity surely beats the alternative.

It's marketing fodder.  Identities aren't defined by words...but actions.  There's a reason why marketing and advertising are the first to go during a down turn in the business world.  It's all fluff...

Simply put, if we produce an inferior product no amount of marketing can save VU.  He can challenge his players any way he cares to, but I'm not walking around like a tool espousing "Grit" as a victory cry.  Some might say determination and effort ("grit" if you care) is simply the price of entry into the world of NCAA D1 college athletic scholarship.

In other news, I was listening to the game on the plane ride home last night and no play-by-play could do justice to the crisp nature of our play.  Now THAT was fun to watch for much of the game!!!  Go VU

[VUGrad1314]

You say that actions speak louder than words and we can all agree on that but you didn't even see how well the team defended and rebounded all game long. The fact that they fought through such an abysmal offensive performance and found a way to win means  their actions aren't  speaking they are shouting. This game was proof positive that gritty is more than a word to this team. They live it and there's no reason to believe that won't continue. Why? Because the kind of adversity they just fought through was greater than anything an MVC road environment could throw at them. A drought like that won't happen again. This was  the ultimate test of their will and they passed. If you don't want to see "gritty" marketed and won't participate if it is that's your decision; but if you don't want to see this become a part of what it means to put on the uniform  and be a Crusader, I'm afraid you're too late because as I said in an earlier post it's already existed. Those earlier teams may not be as defined by it as this team likely will be but effort toughness and grit were already huge ingredients in many of our most successful teams.

[valpotx]

In retrospect, why in the world didn't Muller at least have 2 players to contest that FT rebound?  They could have easily eaten into the 2.9 seconds on a miss, just in doing such a thing.