What does success look like for next year?

NativeCheesehead · February 27, 2019, 08:17:26 PM

So barring a miracle run in St Louis this year is pretty much done. And we'll have several months to dissect this season, so I'll leave that until tomorrow.

So here's my question:

What would need to happen for you to consider the 2019-2020 season a success? What needs to happen for you to be ok with a Lottich extension?

And I ask because I honestly don't know what I think yet. A top half finish? Top 3? Very unlikely we go from back to back Thursday nights to a Sunday appearance. What has to happen 12 months from now for you to say, "I support the direction of this program."

jloose128 · February 27, 2019, 08:26:51 PM

Win Arch Madness.

bigmosmithfan1 · February 27, 2019, 08:30:09 PM

Success is what it has always looked like in this program -- an NCAA tourney berth. Anything short of that is not successful.

NativeCheesehead · February 27, 2019, 08:52:46 PM

With respect, don't think either of those is happening.

nkvu · February 27, 2019, 09:01:02 PM

In previous years I would have said really competing for the conference championship and a postseason NCAA or NIT tournament. With this team I would say somehow avoiding the Thursday game in the conference tournament would exceed my expectations.

M · February 27, 2019, 09:06:26 PM

NIT or NCAA appearance or bust. But, seeing as just about all the same guys will back unless 3 or 4 of them develop a 3point shot it might get a little more salty in these parts.

oklahomamick · February 27, 2019, 09:13:06 PM

If we had another coach and the same group of players next year. Top 3 finish and championship game is realistic. Ceiling with this coach is top half and one win in St. Louis.

justducky · February 27, 2019, 09:27:14 PM

If everybody returns and returns healthy I still see top 70 potential. When Fazekas ain't Fazekas, Golder ain't Golder and Evelyn ain't Evelyn eventually the whole team is sleepwalking through the motions. Tonight I didn't recognize anybody who played or coached.

Can we play any worse vs Evansville? Maybe I should sacrifice a chicken, use my ticket to start a bonfire, and perform an exorcism. Everybody can come and participate but you'll have to bring your own bird.

GoldenCrusader87 · February 27, 2019, 09:34:15 PM

what we saw out there doesn't seem like what Matt's comments in the article this eeek were leading up to ...seems like we packed it in tight!

PlumStreetBum · February 27, 2019, 11:26:28 PM

Success is 12 wins, or a Lottich firing. I'll be happy with one of those. His guys didn't play with any effort tonight, and that was the last thing we had to hang our hats on.

Now, we all know that won't happen, so I'll set a third criterion: Wholesale changes in the athletic department leadership. ... But I know that's even less likely than 12 wins or a coaching change.

I'll revisit this thread tomorrow when I'm hopefully feeling less ashamed of being a Valpo basketball fan. Maybe I'll change my mimd.

may know · February 28, 2019, 12:22:32 AM

NIT

GoldenCrusader87 · February 28, 2019, 06:13:34 AM

Plum, I hope you're saying 12 conference wins, right? Lol I'd hope to God we could get more than 12 total wins.

In 15-16, we had 30 wins. We've had 29 total in the 17-18 and 18-19 seasons combined.

With an Alec Peters team in the Horizon during the 16/17 season, we had 24 wins.

I'd say yes regular season conference championship should be a realistic goal IF everybody sticks around. Minimum top 3.

In addition, we'd need 24+ wins on the season along with an ncaa or nit birth.

PlumStreetBum · February 28, 2019, 07:52:38 AM

Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 28, 2019, 06:13:34 AM
Plum, I hope you're saying 12 conference wins, right?

Yep, 12 conference wins. I've started thinking of non-conference almost like pre-season baseball but more exciting.

GoldenCrusader87 · February 28, 2019, 11:41:10 AM

Plum - makes sense. Just checking 👍

tiny707 · February 28, 2019, 12:47:42 PM

Nine conference wins at a minimum.

vu72 · February 28, 2019, 04:53:30 PM

If we don't finish top 2 and don't have a $hit load of injuries, that should be the goal. Bottom half and we need a change. We will be LOADED with seniors and who knows who else will be added. We should have a minimum of two new players. So, I'm wondering, what type of injury would keep you from dressing for basicly the entire season, and NOT require surgery? If you needed surgery why would you wait till the end of the season? Something weird is going on.

oklahomamick · February 28, 2019, 06:38:08 PM

2 wins more than what we have this year.....

VUGrad1314 · February 28, 2019, 07:56:35 PM

I honestly don't know how to measure success do we measure it against the historic highs under Bryce or relative to what Matt has yielded? Those are two very different answers. Do we base success on what we think this team can do--what we have led ourselves to believe to keep ourselves interested and excited--or do we base it on what this team has shown so far?

78crusader · February 28, 2019, 09:10:49 PM

Getting some mental toughness, which I feel this team/program lacks

Paul

EddieCabot · February 28, 2019, 09:24:19 PM

Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 28, 2019, 07:56:35 PM
I honestly don't know how to measure success do we measure it against the historic highs under Bryce or relative to what Matt has yielded? Those are two very different answers. Do we base success on what we think this team can do--what we have led ourselves to believe to keep ourselves interested and excited--or do we base it on what this team has shown so far?

IMO, it's not really fair to measure ML against the historic highs under Bryce. Those were unbelievable years that might never be replicated. I say consistently finishing upper half in the MVC and getting to the NCAAT every 5 years or so would be a great result for this program.

GoldenCrusader87 · March 01, 2019, 07:05:53 AM

Eddie,

Fair - but, do you really think those results would be satisfying to the fan base?

crusader05 · March 01, 2019, 07:21:47 AM

wouldn't that be on par with what Bryce did over the last ten years. 2 tournament first lost appearances and the NIT run which was our first post-season win in how long?

We should be better than we are but it's not like we were a perennial tournament team and it's not like even with our best team in ages we didn't lose in the conference tournament champtionship.

SanityLost17 · March 01, 2019, 07:41:59 AM

If Fazekas, Golder, and Bakari were fully healthy all conference season we would have won 4 more games so far and would beat Evansville this weekend. That is 12-6 this year.

So anything above that next year is good. I said before conference play this year we should have been 12-6 or 11-7 at worst. I am VERY confident we would have achieved that goal with these 2 out of these 3 playing at or near full capacity for that 18 game stretch.

I really don't see how anybody can argue with this statement considering how close some of our games this year and how painfully obvious it was players were still in pain upon returning.

Official Prediction:
If during the 18 game conference season next year we are near full health for the majority of it with all of our players back from this team and our new additions..... 14-4 and top 2 in the conference.

vu72 · March 01, 2019, 08:15:41 AM

Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 01, 2019, 07:41:59 AMIf Fazekas, Golder, and Bakari were fully healthy all conference season we would have won 4 more games so far and would beat Evansville this weekend. That is 12-6 this year.

That is correct in my opinion. We lost 4 games by a total of 20 points--2 in OT. We HAD the weapons, even with Bakari's lost season.

NativeCheesehead · March 01, 2019, 08:23:05 AM

Clearly if we were healthy we would have had a better record, probably avoiding the play in game. But 12-6? I find that hard to process. I get the point differential. But this is still the team that lost at home to UIndy and High Point, got destroyed by Ball State, and lacks any meaningful wins.

I understand the argument, because I don't believe it's a talent issue. So we come back to coaching........

And I hate to keep coming back to this but MOST and Drake have first year head coaches with massive roster turnover. That fact alone negates some of the "Trust the Process" rhetoric we hear.