Transfers

[VUFan2021]

I understand that transferring is part of the college game these days, but Valpo's departures or potential ones seem to be excessive over the past few years. What makes a kid "fall in love" with Valpo as a program and an academic institution when committing to the squad, then head for the hills a short time later?

[vu72]

I understand you aren't going to hit on every recruit.  But Lottich needs a better hit/miss ratio on recruiting.  Hasn't recruited a point guard yet....

[/b]


Really?  Or maybe you meant "a successful point guard".  We've got two guys coming in next year who either play the point or can play the point.  Can't wait to see BIG guys handling the ball!

[vuny98]

Like (1 people liked this)

I actually think his recruits have done quite well. Not all have worked out for us or players I would necessarily want on the team again, but doesn't mean they weren't good players or bad recruits.

Smitts, Sorolla - Both talented players that moved up. Smitts was a great get, wouldn't want him on the team again, but can't say he was a bad recruit at the time.
Kiser - Not most talented but great team guyGolder/Evelyn - Both good players and good transfers in, just didnt work outJoe Burton - Great player, but academic issues. That season and maybe the next would have been different had he stayed on track and not gotten kicked off the team.
JFL - obviously a great getFezakas - one of the best 3 pt shooters in our history. If he stayed healthy could have been real special.Robinson/Gordon - Both good transfers in as role players
Clay - Very good playerKrikke - Very good, could be great by Senior year
This years freshman class - all seem to have great upsides, played well as freshmen.
There have been some duds as well, some project players that didn't pan out and some that played more minutes then there talent suggested. But if you look at the list, it's not bad at all. A lot of injuries, some character/team chemistry issues in there as well. But you can't 100% control those things. If Fazakes wasn't hurt half the year last year, we could have been a top 4 team in the MVC. I'd say the same thing if JFL didn't leave this year.

[humbleopinion]

I happened to channel surf to the Illinois State Championship game from JFL's senior year that was being rebroadcast.  There was an interview with JFL's uncle.  He said that Valpo was a great fit for JFL because he could play as a freshman -- nothing about the values of the university or coaching staff.  I know I heard that same interview years ago, but this time, with the knowledge of what happened, it seemed clear that Valpo was never intended to be a four year choice for JFL.

[crusader05]

I think it's fair to say that retention has been a bit of an issue in the Lottich era and that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad coach. It mean's he what he is. A really young head coach. Promoting a 3rd assistant to head coach is just asking for growing pains and I actually do think lots of the issues we have seen can be attributed to that.

It's one thing to be good at recruiting but you have to learn who to target and when.

It's one thing to have a good idea for a motion offense, it's another to learn how to help the players see it.

It's one thing to be able to sell Valpo as home, it's another to figure out how to make it feel both like a home and an intense competitive program.

A lot of these things are intangibles that some people do innately have and others absolutely have to learn.  I think at some point we need the players to move from liking Valpo and each other to fighting for Valpo and each other. We need not just individually competitive drives but have the team be equally competitive together. Sometimes they just seemed lazy, like they were out playing with each other for fun. That's honestly the attitude that worries me the most watching the team. Cause eventually they get older and realize they want more out of their basketball career more than liking their school and their teammates.

I'm not on the Fire Lottich team but I think it's fair to say there's room for improvement and some of that might just take time as he continues to learn and grow as a coach. We may not want to wait but I don't see a ton of stuff with Lottich that i'm willing to say is set in stone just yet just based on how young he is in head coaching experience. Plus, as someone said on here earlier, Bryce was not known to be a great delegator so I don't know how much tutelage those under him got if you weren't his right hand man.

I do think that both this freshman class and his incoming class seem more cohesiveness and point towards a clearer team identity and I just hope that he figures out the team chemistry stuff soon as well cause that's probably going to be the only thing to prevent players feeling like they've outgrown the program before their four years are up

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/kreyme8/status/1371514784324141057?s=21

https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1371515789862440962?s=21

https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1371561579179872267?s=21

[crusader05]

So are we supposed to be reading something between the lines with all this or........

[wh]

Awaiting your return, Javon. And, bring Charlie Moore with you!

Javon with 2 more years eligibility, Charlie with 1. Each averaged 14.4 PPG. That should equate to 35-40 points on a typical MVC night.

[Pgmado]

So are we supposed to be reading something between the lines with all this or........

It's not like I said Valpo is getting good news.

[bb33]

That would be amazing.  But what are the chances of it materializing?  But if it did, Javon could rule the MVC.  Big investments to the ARC would have to start now.

[vu84v2]

Awaiting your return, Javon. And, bring Charlie Moore with you!

Javon with 2 more years eligibility, Charlie with 1. Each averaged 14.4 PPG. That should equate to 35-40 points on a typical MVC night.

I love your thinking, but I think there would be two major "firsts" associated with this.
1. Has a player ever transferred back to a school that he left?
2. Has a player ever played for four schools?

[VUGrad1314]

If this happens we'd be an at large contender no matter who else comes back in the Valley and I would want us to schedule like it!

[VU2014]

If this happens we'd be an at large contender no matter who else comes back in the Valley and I would want us to schedule like it!

If Javon came back and Donovan withdrew his name from the portal we'd be MVC favorites to win the Conference and maybe an at-large bid.

[crusader05]

Maybe if Javon returned Clay would change his mind but you'd think those guys all still talk right? If there was a chance he was returning you'd think Clay would know that already right or Sackey?

Maybe i'm wrong but I'd think the answer is he's either not coming back and all our conversations can continue on the way they've been going or he is coming back but that's not going to solve whatever reason Clay et al have for leaving but will still maybe help the conversations on this board from being too dire. Would also be interesting if he did come back to have someone on the team who tried for the greener grass and can say, nah it's not worth it. But again this would all be on if he did come back which seems pretty unprecedented

I think Mileek just wants to go somewhere that he can play the 4 and not the 5 honestly.

[justducky]

2. Has a player ever played for four schools?

Brandon Woods     Southern Illinois,  Some JC,  Valpo,  Michigan St

Logan Jones may have hit 5  but I'm not interested enough to research it. 

[elephtheria47]

I'd be shocked if JFL came back. He's had some success, he could go to another P5 if he wanted. (Plus we've been told ML is a d****e!)

But, if he did come back, that is fun to think about the possibilities. Esp with JO just standing in the corner making it rain.

[vu84v2]

2. Has a player ever played for four schools?

Brandon Woods     Southern Illinois,  Some JC,  Valpo,  Michigan St

Logan Jones may have hit 5  but I'm not interested enough to research it. 

I meant to say four D1 schools.

[Chairback]

It's sad that we think he would come back.  We've hit rock bottom.


How many times can you be dumped and think you still have a chance. 

[valpolaw]

I'm with chairback here. There is a zero point zero chance he is coming back but I would love to be proven wrong on that

[VU2014]

Probably not going to happen but the speculation is fun

[bb33]

It's all in lighthearted fun.

[valpotx]

Exactly.  Why in the world would JFL come back? lol  Let's speculate on some folks that legitimately want to play at Valpo.  I wouldn't want him on our team, which seems to be moving more towards jump shots, rather than creating open space for drives. 

Speaking of the JFL or Clay's of the world, you are taking a risk when taking on someone that wants to play right away, and has legitimate talent to immediately compete as a FR.  It worked out in AP's case, but both JFL and Clay seemed to want to use the first 2 years as a JuCo equivalent, to get additional eyes their way for a move up.  Similar to how the top P5 programs have the 1-and-done, it seems that solid mid-majors have the 2-and-done.

[VU2014]

Valpo has not hit rock bottom. Are we where we want to be? Absolutely not but guys there are pieces on this Team that are very good. It hurts with the transfers the last few years but it's not a nail in the coffin. We were a middle of the road young roster that could hardly practice this year due to covid. We have a very strong recruiting class coming and lost transfers (other than Clay) that have the chance to upgrade their open positions. Are things perfect? No they are not. There are things to be critical of. Are we at rock bottom? Absolutely not.

It's ok to not be happy but try to see the big picture. There is a chance that 1/4th+ of the eligible D1 players this offseason will be leaving their current schools which is absolutely nuts to think about. Kids quit much easier these days or aren't willing to stick it out and not getting playing time like they use to. Don't give me the Homer and Bryce didn't have this many transfers crap. It is a totally different sport and landscape compared to 5-10 years ago. Times have changed. Yes you can point to outliers schools holding onto more players the last few years but that what they are.
OUTLIERS.

I've been hot and cold about The Matt Lottich tenure but I can't gripe about too much right now. He needs to stop those insane scoring draughts and recruit better shooters but I think the way the roster is trending, I think he knows and his young players are much more capable shooters. He's been learning on the fly and definitely has made mistakes in recruiting (as does everyone) but I feel better about our recruiting than I ever have under his tenure. Time will tell.

[Chairback]

We won 8 games last year, I guess winning less than that would be rock bottom? I don't count PNW and Judson. We have to be in the 1% club with amount of transfers the last 3-4 years.  Sure transfers are the norm now but not a complete overhaul twice.

We are saying the exact same things we said after the first exodus.  Let's replace them, we can upgrade, etc.  We blame the players and not the coaches. 


I bet the majority of the reasons for the transfers is our offensive system blows.  It's bad and the players have shown they cannot adapt to it.  It's a clueless offensive and then we panic and force shots to beat the shot clock.  Every game...

The first half of the MVC conf game against MS was a complete joke.   

[VU2014]

We won 8 games last year, I guess winning less than that would be rock bottom? I don't count PNW and Judson. We have to be in the 1% club with amount of transfers the last 3-4 years.  Sure transfers are the norm now but not a complete overhaul twice.

We are saying the exact same things we said after the first exodus.  Let's replace them, we can upgrade, etc.  We blame the players and not the coaches. 


I bet the majority of the reasons for the transfers is our offensive system blows.  It's bad and the players have shown they cannot adapt to it.  It's a clueless offensive and then we panic and force shots to beat the shot clock.  Every game...

The first half of the MVC conf game against MS was a complete joke.   

We beat the number 24 ranked team in the nation once and nearly twice. We got screwed by the refs in the Loyola game who was ranked #21 at the time on the road. We were winning most of the Purdue game on the road who is now a ranked Top 25 team.

Valpo hasn't been consistent, which he is an issue

You are choosing to look at the negatives and none of the positives.