Transfers

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/wisbbyearbook/status/1375501296929808385?s=21

https://twitter.com/evan_flood/status/1374876459215519748?s=21

https://twitter.com/manimalelite/status/1375824186552254466?s=21

[JD24]

Figured I'd chime in here since there's enough veiled shots at "maybe a reporter could..." I called JO the day he went in the portal. He asked for a couple of days because he was busy, but confirmed name was in the portal. I waited a couple of days, I reached out again. He asked if we could talk the next day. Sure. The story in local paper comes out that night. I reach out the next morning. He says we'll touch base later in the day. He messages as I'm walking into a wedding. We agreed to talk yesterday. We spoke and he completely walked back the comments he made in his local paper. A lot of "i don't want to get into it," and "I'm very grateful for the coaches and my entire experience at Valpo." I asked him to elaborate on some of the comments. He said he would rather not. I pressed one more time and that was it. I've got a big transfer data story coming out later this week and I'm saving the quotes for that. Here is my take. Some of these guys are leaving because they don't like Lottich. It should be noted that some of these guys are staying because the like Lottich. Some of these guys are leaving because this wasn't what they signed up for. Some of these guys are leaving because they have vastly different perceptions of their talent/role than the coaches do. I'm sure that could be said for transfers all over the place. Some of these guys are transferring because they are seniors and they were set to leave anyway.

Speaking of "veiled shots": I'll assume this was partially directed at my comment.  However, I was not addressing questioning a player, but the coach, and I specified "a reporter or university administrator" could ask for a public response: "It seems odd to me that there are numerous posts on this board seeking to find out why so many players are leaving the program or speculating about their motives; however, when a player offers an explanation, it is met with antagonism and skepticism by some. I think the more reasonable route would be asking for free speech to take place all around. A reporter or university administrator could question the coaches about the recent amount of transfers or specific players' public statements following departure and request a public response."  Essentially, I was requesting obtaining a response from Lottich about these recent and more significant developments the way he replied when asked about Robinson's remarks, though quotes from Lottich didn't seem to deny Robinson's take on the situation. 

I would expect the only response to be, and this is from any coach, some form of "it just didn't work out here and we wish him luck in the future". A complete waste of time.

[VU2014]

.500 record or below - check
several players transfer, role, good and bad - check
coaching staff turnover every other year - check

Repeat.

No there's nothing wrong here....

Not going to comment on the player transfer comment but instead the Coaches leaving comment.

Assistants leave all the time in college basketball (especially at the mid-major level). Under Lottich how many Assistants have we had leave Coach Dildy, Coach Ragland, & Coach Townsend?

Coach Dildy was offered a Big 10 gig with Northwestern. Much more $, got go back to his hometown in Chicago to live (I know Evanston is Chicago but real close). Nothing to see here. Good initial hire.

Coach Ragland left for Utah State in the MWC and probably also got a pay raise. Coach Ragland if you look at his track record, job hops from opportunity to opportunity and has been quite successful at it. Valpo was a successful stepping stone in his coaching career. I know he has no hard feels with Valpo. A great guy by the way. I thought he should been a top candidate for the Evansville and Indiana State head coaching gigs.

Coach Townsend also left but that was for personal family related reasons I believe. His family was in Wisconsin while he was Coaching in Valparaiso. That's tough on the family. Coach Lottich and him are like Brothers. I highly encourage everyone read Paul's article about Coach Townsend and Coach Lottich. When Coach Townsend left, Coach Bowen was promoted.

I believe Coach Chad Warner was a special assistant Lottich's first or 2nd season. He came in with head coaching experience and I think was an advisor to Lottich about being a new head coach. I believe that was also going to be temporary after 1 year. He left to go become a head coach at a non-D1 in Florida, Flagler University.

I don't see any correlation with the Assistant turnover and read that a few times in the forum.

[VU2014]

Coach Lottich seems like a very competitive, tough and emotional guy. Maybe that doesn't jive with some kids. He might not be the warm and fuzzy guy that some kids want. And might be unlikable to some kids. I don't know him well enough to know one way or another. Just reading the tea leaves.

There are things to like and not like about Coach Lottich as an outside observer. I do think he's a very high character individual. But I'm just not sure this tenure is work out the way Mark LaBarbera intended it would. If a squad full of Juniors: Alec Peters, Shane H, Jubril Adekoya didn't have one more year of eligibility to run it back, would he have still used the "Butler Method" of hiring from within? I don't think it would have been as important to him. Roger Powell turned down the job after Bryce left, and it came down on to Gore or Lottich. He went with Lottich and the results as what they are. Alec Peters' senior year didn't go as planned but he did come back, which had LaBarbera hired someone AP was unfamiliar with, he like would have been a grad-transfer. I'm sure Lottich was good in the interview process. But the results are what they are. He got some kind of extension after the Arch Madness run before the Covid Lockdowns. I heard it was a 4 year extension, but I can't verify that.

I'm trying to be fair. If all his players never transferred this team would have a legit at-large chance with JFL, Clay, & JO. Transfers are part of the game. What I'm concerned about is the same offensive challenges and draughts. From the 2017 Milwaukee Horizon League game (which there were injury/illness circumstances in that game that no one likes to talk about with Shane being sick, no Jubril.l, no AP, Lexus was hurt I think) to the 2021 Missouri State Arch Madness game and everything in between. Is he a little over his skies? I don't know but the results haven't been consistent.

Maybe Lottich will be a great head coach and it will all come together. I don't know. Maybe he's in a similar situation as Porter Moser at Illinois State. Porter was a young head coach with ISU and failed and got fired. He took a job at SLU as an assistant under the legend Rick Majerus and learned next to him before getting the Loyola gig and rising to become one of the best Mid Major Coaches in the game. Maybe he just wasn't ready. I don't know. I just hope that the AD can look objectively at the situation and learn to admit a mistake if he feels he made one. Sometimes it's easier just to rip off the band aid when you know it's going to hurt in the shirt term but will help the wound heal later on. I don't know what the answer is guys.

All I know is the fan base isn't happy or content with the results and they shouldn't be. We should expect better results. I like the recruiting class coming in. We need results.

[Chitwood]

Lottich's teams have shown significant improvements from the beginning of the season to the end... But let's be real, there are some problems with in-game adjustments and, most importantly, it's clear most of the team does not respond well to him.

Everyone that was around the Bryce-era knows that he did a great job motivating and empowering his players. They always played w/ energy and joy. That has been significantly tampered down of late. In the college basketball world, fun is often undervalued as a criteria for success. If you look at successful teams (even the most disciplined), they all have fun.

I think this is what he needs to work on. Man management. If the players were empowered and enjoying their experience, they would be less likely to transfer. Plain and simple.

I would agree that he appears to be a competitive minded coach. But, I get the impression as a neutral observer that he does not appear to have full control of the team.

Finally, some people on here are being extremely unfair to younger generations. From disregarding their opinions to saying they need "warm and fuzzy" coaching and cannot handle tough coaching. I think this is completely inaccurate. If we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.

[Pgmado]

If we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.

I've heard two different things. One player is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff was too hard on him. Another is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff wasn't hard enough. Now extrapolate that out to 17 people on the team. Some need sugar and some need spice.

[VU2014]

If we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.

I've heard two different things. One player is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff was too hard on him. Another is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff wasn't hard enough. Now extrapolate that out to 17 people on the team. Some need sugar and some need spice.

Nailed it. People are different and need to be managed differently. I'm sure it's tough managing egos and different personalities for a group of talented young men that have different motivations.

Chitwood, to your point about not enjoying the experience. This must have been a pretty miserable season. Guys were locked their dorm rooms quarantining several times throughout the season. I'm not sure what Lottich or the Coaches could do to make it more "enjoyable" for them. Daniel Sackey spent Christmas in dorm room away from his family. I think a lot of College Athletes didn't have a great college experience this year and that is why we may be seeing more transfers. And chances are because we'll be hopefully passed this Covid pandemic by next Winter (I really hope so), they will have a better and more fulfilling college experience! It's been a $H@t year.

As to the empowering comment, please elaborate. No offense but that sounds like fluffy type comment that HR tells employees during a mandatory office meeting. Sounds great but what does that even mean? Coach Lottich wasn't giving the Team free reign during a pandemic where there are mandatory health protocols and strict practice protocols of what kids can and can't do. The whole offense gives a ton leeway to players to take open 3s even if ill-advised at times. Lottich offense gives lot's of autonomy to the players and that was a selling point to recruits. (Listen to Paul's podcast with the most recent recruiting class, Cameron Palesse mentions it). Motivated and empowered easy things for us fans to comment about win the Team is in a rut. There were times where energy lacked on the court but I'd play devils advocate that they looked tired and gassed because they were coming off several weeks of quarantine and no conditioning in their dorm rooms. Like I've said I'm hot and cold on Lottich. I have my concerns but I also know people never take a look at the whole picture (I want to emphasize myself included).

[JD24]

If we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.

I've heard two different things. One player is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff was too hard on him. Another is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff wasn't hard enough. Now extrapolate that out to 17 people on the team. Some need sugar and some need spice.

Said the same thing a couple of days ago.

[bbtds]

Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.

It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.

Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.

[humbleopinion]

Yesterday the number of Div I student-athletes who have entered the transfer portal surpassed 1000 (1011 as I type this).  The number keeps rising

By my count, there are seventy-one teams who have five or more athletes who have entered the portal -- that's 20% of all DI teams!

[vu72]

Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time

If he is looking for D1 basketball at a Lutheran university, He's down to Wagner as his only choice.

[valpopal]

Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.

It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.

Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.

Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

[valpo95]

It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.

...Valpo has changed over time.

The Lutheran experience would be very different today than from many alumni. According to the numbers I have, this is the percentage of undergrads who identify as Lutheran:

1970   67%
1980   51%
1990   52%
2000   40%

2009   35.2%, split as follows  13.9% ELCA, 18.1% LCMS, 3.0% other Lutheran
2019   20.7%  split as follows  4.3% ELCA, 8.8% LCMS, 7.6% other Lutheran

[vuny98]

Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.

It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo. Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.

Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

Agree, I think everyone focusing on the Lutheran piece is missing the whole point of why he left. It may have been a factor in why he choose Valpo (Probably not the biggest factor), but not the reason he is leaving nor does it necessarily dictate where he will go. Part of the reason I chose Valpo was its Engineering program, but by the end of my Freshman year I was transferring to the business program. If I were to have left, I would not have chosen a new school based on its Engineering program. That's not to say JO is quitting being a Lutheran, just an example that your decision criteria changes after you have some experience. JO said as much in the article:"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."

[crusader05]

lots of players entering the portal but doesn't seem to be a lot of action in schools picking up players. Is it usually this quiet this long? Most teams are done playing so it's not that, curious if or why teams are being cautious in filling spots.

[FWalum]

Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.

It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.

Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.

Let me expound a little on my comment. I have been involved with Lutheran schools all the way from grade school, high school, university and seminary. At least here in a MSL, somewhat conservative environment, a student/athlete would expect a disciplined and respectful environment. Yes, that is changing as things get more progressive, but I would wager that JO's experience in high school was much more disciplined and potentially religiously structured than what he perceived to happen at VU. As has been said many times in commercials, it is all about perception.

[JD24]

Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time

If he is looking for D1 basketball at a Lutheran university, He's down to Wagner as his only choice.

I'm sure planting him on Staten Island will cheer him up.

[vu72]

So the total is now 1043, already a head of the all time record set last year at 1026.  The good news is that we no longer have the most as Indiana State is at 8.  A total of 28 so far in the Valley.

[VU2014]

Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.

It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo. Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.

Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

Agree, I think everyone focusing on the Lutheran piece is missing the whole point of why he left. It may have been a factor in why he choose Valpo (Probably not the biggest factor), but not the reason he is leaving nor does it necessarily dictate where he will go. Part of the reason I chose Valpo was its Engineering program, but by the end of my Freshman year I was transferring to the business program. If I were to have left, I would not have chosen a new school based on its Engineering program. That's not to say JO is quitting being a Lutheran, just an example that your decision criteria changes after you have some experience. JO said as much in the article:"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."

Just my opinion the more I hear about the JO transfer I'm not sure he's coming from a fully mature opinion on things. I mean credit to him for know what he wants out a Coach, School, religious institution, meal plan.... but he had really high expectations for what he wanted Valparaiso University to be and it wasn't in this covid riddled year. The students who attended Valparaiso University this year did not get the College experience I did because there were so many covid and health protocol restrictions that never existed when I went there. That is EVERY school!

Look I don't want to knock an 18-19 year old kid. My perspective has grown dramatically from when I was that age. He seems really bitter and a bit childish the more I find out. Life isn't perfect and just because it was a crappy experience your freshman year doesn't mean it would be that way your next 3years.

I hope he finds what he's looking for. If we are passed covid by next Winter, he will have a better experience just by the nature of society getting passed this pandemic. He's so young, I don't blame him for not having the life experience to look at things that way.

[Pgmado]

Let me expound a little on my comment. I have been involved with Lutheran schools all the way from grade school, high school, university and seminary. At least here in a MSL, somewhat conservative environment, a student/athlete would expect a disciplined and respectful environment. Yes, that is changing as things get more progressive, but I would wager that JO's experience in high school was much more disciplined and potentially religiously structured than what he perceived to happen at VU. As has been said many times in commercials, it is all about perception.

I've gone to or been affiliated with Lutheran schools my entire life. I don't generally associate with being Lutheran. My father became a Methodist pastor when I was 19 and that was always the church I went to growing up.

I went to Concordia University Wisconsin coming out of high school. Every year, four of the Concordia schools (Wisconsin, Chicago, St. Paul and Seward, Nebraska) would play basketball in the CIT (Concordia Invitational Tournament). It was the biggest athletics event of the year. There was lots of good-hearted trash talk between the four schools and one of the things that was often said about Seward is that was where the real Bible thumpers went to school. That said, Concordia Wisconsin had their fair share. I believe there was a cross in every classroom. I got dumped by a girl I dated for a few months at Concordia because she "didn't have a firm enough relationship with God" and she wanted to lock that down before she explored a relationship with another human. (She was married before she finished college) Most of the athletes that I encountered at Concordia Wisconsin went to the school because of the Lutheran connection and they just happened to play sports as well.

Then I transferred to Valparaiso, "The National Lutheran University," as it was known. I can tell you as someone who has spent three years here as a student and 16 as an educator, God is hardly ever talked about in the classroom. I've taught public speaking at Valpo and I never bring up religion. Yet, when I took public speaking at Concordia, the class was used as a way to get pastors more comfortable talking in front of congregations. Most of the athletes that I encounter at Valpo didn't pick the school because of the Lutheran connection. They play sports at Valpo and the school just happens to be religious as well. 

I say all that to say this...there seems to be a question as to whether or not Valparaiso is a religious enough school for some. The answer is whatever you want it to be. Everything is put on hold in the morning so the entire campus can come together and worship...or, as one athlete told me, "Chapel Break is for Breakfast." Every student is required to take theology as part of their course work...or, you only have to take two religion classes, the same as foreign language, science and social science.

So if the question is whether or not the coaches were real or fake with him, that is open to interpretation. If students want to come here and get religion as part of their daily lives, it is available to them. If students want to come here and not get religion as part of their daily lives, that is available to them as well. As is living in the middle, which is what most of the students seem to do.

[valpotx]

Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.

It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo. Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.

Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

Agree, I think everyone focusing on the Lutheran piece is missing the whole point of why he left. It may have been a factor in why he choose Valpo (Probably not the biggest factor), but not the reason he is leaving nor does it necessarily dictate where he will go. Part of the reason I chose Valpo was its Engineering program, but by the end of my Freshman year I was transferring to the business program. If I were to have left, I would not have chosen a new school based on its Engineering program. That's not to say JO is quitting being a Lutheran, just an example that your decision criteria changes after you have some experience. JO said as much in the article:"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."

This is the public information that he has put out, yes.  Let's see how it compares to any future information that might come from the coaching staff.

[wh]

This year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.

[a3uge]

This year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.

On the bright side for them, there's tons of spots open for a certain school in northwest indiana.

[JD24]

This year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.

On the bright side for them, there's tons of spots open for a certain school in northwest indiana.

Question for some of these players is....when the music stops is there a seat for them?

[mj]

This year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.

Sounds like a buyers market for us.