Transfers

[vu72]

Lipscomb is a Church of Christ school.  I visited their when I lived in Nashville to watch Valpo play them in baseball.  Their facilities are very nice.  The Church of Christ is a loosely knit group of congregations primarily based in the deep South.  They are WAY different than Lutherans and as an example, they do not believe in musical instruments being used during worship, including the organ. All music is sung a cappella. The teaching is based on "if it isn't specifically spelled out in the Bible it's a no go.

This is a small, safe environment for JO. Given what he said about family it is a bit surprising as it is no where near home for him.  A strange choice in my estimation (unless he is a country music fan!)

[vu72]

https://www.sheboyganpress.com/story/sports/college/2021/04/25/sheboygan-lutherans-jacob-ognacevic-transfer-ncaa-di-lipscomb/7371494002/

[wh]

Lipscomb is a Church of Christ school.  I visited their when I lived in Nashville to watch Valpo play them in baseball.  Their facilities are very nice.  The Church of Christ is a loosely knit group of congregations primarily based in the deep South.  They are WAY different than Lutherans and as an example, they do not believe in musical instruments being used during worship, including the organ. All music is sung a cappella. The teaching is based on "if it isn't specifically spelled out in the Bible it's a no go.

This is a small, safe environment for JO. Given what he said about family it is a bit surprising as it is no where near home for him.  A strange choice in my estimation (unless he is a country music fan!)

Additionally, they have no sororities or fraternities, and students are required to attend chapel twice a week. As '72 noted they want student life to be compatible with their religious belief, which as a private university is certainly their right. Valpo doesn't purport to be anything like that, which is perfectly fine, as well. It's what I like about private universities over cookie cutter public universities. All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.

[valpopal]

All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.

Speaking about trashing someone on his way out the door...

[justducky]

The transfer portal and an extra year of eligibility for current players changes everything.

Guys, gals, bigs and mids, the covid aftermath will leave a lot of hopeful and promising freshmen largely watching as bench spectators.

This is a small, safe environment for JO. Given what he said about family it is a bit surprising as it is no where near home for him.  A strange choice in my estimation

The free market scramble for new homes is ending as I expected. Static demand coupled with a 25% oversupply has resulted in JO and Clay essentially moving sideways, Mileek and Daniel have stepped downward and Sigurd and Nick are unlikely to fare any better. This same oversupply has netted us a  D-2 star and 3 Big-10 transfers down. BUT-----Other Valley teams may also improve.

[wh]

All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.

Speaking about trashing someone on his way out the door...

I'll stand by what I said, and you and a few others will stand by what you said in buying the kid's story hook, line and sinker and using it as ammunition to claim Matt Lottich needs to be fired.

[valpo64]

Re:  JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said.  I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo.  His transfer was probably better for all involved.

[valpopal]

All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.

Speaking about trashing someone on his way out the door...

I'll stand by what I said, and you and a few others will stand by what you said in buying the kid's story hook, line and sinker and using it as ammunition to claim Matt Lottich needs to be fired.

You seem to be making another assumption and jumping to another conclusion. I have never called for Lottich to be fired. As for "the kid's story": what are the specific details on which you have based your sweeping judgment?

[valpopal]

Re:  JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said.  I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo.  His transfer was probably better for all involved.

On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?

[vu72]

To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:

roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."

Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.

[wh]

Re:  JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said.  I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo.  His transfer was probably better for all involved.

On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?

We are now officially living in parallel universes relative to this topic.

[valpopal]

To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:

roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."

Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.

When players offer phony reasons for leaving, we are fine with that action? However, when a player gives an honest answer to a reporter's question, we object and criticize. I admire honesty. "The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." If those two frank generalizations in replying to a question that show discretion in not naming names or details are now considered "trashing," then I underestimated the hypersensitivities of some readers on this forum.

[valpopal]

Re:  JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said.  I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo.  His transfer was probably better for all involved.

On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?

We are now officially living in parallel universes relative to this topic.

Yes, those of us unwilling to speculate or jump to conclusions based upon assumptions, and those who apparently are willing to tarnish the personal character of a player without knowledge of all the facts.

[justducky]

Re:  JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said.  I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo.  His transfer was probably better for all involved.

On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?

We are now officially living in parallel universes relative to this topic.

Yes, those of us unwilling to speculate or jump to conclusions based upon assumptions, and those who apparently are willing to tarnish the personal character of a player without knowledge of all the facts.

If you folks are dedicated to this boot pissing exchange then let the rest of us know so we can grab a case of beer and join in.  Nothing like a good pissing match to relieve the off season basketball boredom. In my heyday very few could beat me!

[wh]

To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:

roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."

Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.

Those quotes are inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging to Valparaiso University generally and more specifically to its men's basketball program's efforts to recruit top players. They were made knowing that Valparaiso University and his former coach would never be in a position to directly refute any of his claims, especially his most damaging claim of showing favoritism to some players over other players. Nope, Lottich is left to wear that label now, rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly.

Of the 1300+ players in the portal, JO's the only one that I'm personally aware of that pulled a stunt like this and badmouthed his former university and coach in a formal press interview. Like I said before, he can't undo the damage he's caused, it's going to have to wear off in time. What he can do is recognize that what he did was unacceptable and use it as a learning experience.

[JD24]

The post transfer results would indicate to me that JO's transfer had less to do with basketball and more to do with environment and surroundings. Everyone has a comfort zone and hopefully he has found his.

[EddieCabot]

So what's the rotation going to look like?   Who starts and who subs in and out. 

Looks like multiple scenarios.  Will be interesting to see how Connor fits in this with him starting last year.   

Good question. I would guess that three transfers start (Kithier, Anderson and Taylor) together with Ben and Eron.  Next 5 would be Goodnews, Sheldon, Hedstrom, Cam and Keyondre.  Oh man, some guys are not going to be happy. 

I'd have Sheldon instead of Taylor, but who knows?  Taylor is new to DI, so I'd like to see how he adjusts to big time ball in the MVC.

[EddieCabot]

Assuming we are done with bringing in transfers and done losing transfers.

Who was the biggest loss?
Clay, JO, Robinson, Mileek, Sackey, Helm, Lorange

Who was the biggest gain?
Anderson, Taylor, Kithier, Hedstrom

And overall an upgrade vs downgrade?

All 7 fall into 1 or more of the following categories:
• not talented enough to play
• enough talent to play, but lousy numbers to show for it
• selfish (as in demanding to play guard and pouting, yelling at the coach, and giving a halfhearted effort if told to play another position)
• thought the coaching staff didn't exhibit enough spiritual leadership (the type you might expect to see at evangelical or fundamentalist colleges). Also thought the coach should have disciplined a certain selfish player, but supposedly didn't

All 7 are addition by subtraction. I like our new guys a lot.

I won't argue with any of this.  You had a very similar evaluation of the Evelyn/Smits et al departures a few years ago. 

I will ask this ... if all the recent departures are due to deficiencies in the talent/attitude/character of the players, does any of that fault fall with the coaching staff who recruited them to campus?  I don't have an opinion either way, but just curious what the group thinks.

Things have definitely changed, with kids showing much less patience to put in work while waiting their turn.  It's also true that some % of kids just never develop into the player you thought they would be when you offered a scholarship to them at age 16.  All programs make recruiting mistakes ... could it be that Lottich is more honest and more aggressive in moving on from his mistakes?

[valpopal]

To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:

roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."

Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.

Those quotes are inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging to Valparaiso University generally and more specifically to its men's basketball program's efforts to recruit top players. They were made knowing that Valparaiso University and his former coach would never be in a position to directly refute any of his claims, especially his most damaging claim of showing favoritism to some players over other players. Nope, Lottich is left to wear that label now, rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly.

Of the 1300+ players in the portal, JO's the only one that I'm personally aware of that pulled a stunt like this and badmouthed his former university and coach in a formal press interview. Like I said before, he can't undo the damage he's caused, it's going to have to wear off in time. What he can do is recognize that what he did was unacceptable and use it as a learning experience.

Okay, let me use your own words to describe what I see in your comments about this topic on the forum: "inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging" words about a player who is not "in a position to directly refute" them, which is "unacceptable" and why I am responding. JO's comment: "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." I need clarity: Do you really think he's lying and made it all up, so that he could choose to transfer down and move to a school farther away from home, or are you just afraid he was telling the truth and transferring down is evidence he is following his principles, but you wish he hadn't because it is not good press? I will repeat what I have said before: I admire honesty.   

[JD24]

22 seconds into the video: Q: Why is Valparaiso the right place for Darius DeAveiro? A: I'm in a good spot to play big minutes my first year... https://youtube.com/watch?v=V729Tun5YWM&feature=share The transfer portal and an extra year of eligibility for current players changes everything.

I suspect an early entry into next year's transfer portal.

[justducky]

I suspect an early entry into next year's transfer portal.

It has gotten very difficult to imagine DeAveiro or Woodyard playing significant minutes in 21-22 and they should be warned of this pronto. Matt must approach the season aggressively and tailor his expectations, strategies and individual development plans with what he sees happening on the court. This could take us many different directions but the expected freshman playing time for Young and Pelesse could easily trump out the hopes for the aforementioned duo. It is painful to say this before they even suit up for their first shoot around but barring the unforeseen it will be a season of watching and working. Sorry boys but 15 is an unworkable number!

[wh]

To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:

roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."

"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."

Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.

Those quotes are inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging to Valparaiso University generally and more specifically to its men's basketball program's efforts to recruit top players. They were made knowing that Valparaiso University and his former coach would never be in a position to directly refute any of his claims, especially his most damaging claim of showing favoritism to some players over other players. Nope, Lottich is left to wear that label now, rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly.

Of the 1300+ players in the portal, JO's the only one that I'm personally aware of that pulled a stunt like this and badmouthed his former university and coach in a formal press interview. Like I said before, he can't undo the damage he's caused, it's going to have to wear off in time. What he can do is recognize that what he did was unacceptable and use it as a learning experience.

Okay, let me use your own words to describe what I see in your comments about this topic on the forum: "inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging" words about a player who is not "in a position to directly refute" them, which is "unacceptable" and why I am responding. JO's comment: "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." I need clarity: Do you really think he's lying and made it all up, so that he could choose to transfer down and move to a school farther away from home, or are you just afraid he was telling the truth and transferring down is evidence he is following his principles, but you wish he hadn't because it is not good press? I will repeat what I have said before: I admire honesty. 

I'll stand with the other 1299+ players who wisely and responsibly chose to keep their mouths shut and move on.

[humbleopinion]

Perhaps the transfer portal will lose its allure.  As of now, a quick look indicates that 2/3 of the D1 basketball players who entered the portal have not found a new home.

[nkvu]

I suspect an early entry into next year's transfer portal.

It has gotten very difficult to imagine DeAveiro or Woodyard playing significant minutes in 21-22 and they should be warned of this pronto. Matt must approach the season aggressively and tailor his expectations, strategies and individual development plans with what he sees happening on the court. This could take us many different directions but the expected freshman playing time for Young and Pelesse could easily trump out the hopes for the aforementioned duo. It is painful to say this before they even suit up for their first shoot around but barring the unforeseen it will be a season of watching and working. Sorry boys but 15 is an unworkable number!

Outside the 3 (or 4 if Emil is healthy) bigs, competition for playing time will be fierce. I expect Anderson will get the majority of minutes at point. Beyond that I expect the older guys will get most of of the pt early.  If the younger guys can muscle their way into increased time then that will only be good for the team's prospects.  Gorden and Morgan, for example, play at a certain level.  If they see the floor less later in the season, it will mean that the young guys have taken the team to a higher level. I have no idea which of the young guys might break through. I hope some do.

[valpo95]

Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.

When you consider all of the knuckle-headed, foolish actions of college students in general and college athletes in particular, answering a reporter's question honestly (if inadvisably) is pretty low on the list of offenses. We've had students who have been arrested, sanctioned or alleged to have participated in underage drinking, drug use/possession, assault and academic integrity issues, and those are just the ones we know about.

Beyond that, we've all done or said things we regret, especially at say 19 years of age. Thus, we on this fan board would be wise to dial back the outrage.

I think vu72 is right that this reflects some naivete in talking to a reporter on the record, yet I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. My guess is that Mr. Ognacevic apologized to Coach Lottich for bringing this out in the open, and both have moved on. We should do the same.