Transfers

[vuny98]

By my count, we have 11 scholarship players (assuming one is given to Ruedinger, which it should be)

Are we back to 13 for next year or do we still get extra from Covid?

[vu84v2]

I find it interesting that the best teams may look to refine their roster with transfers, not turn their roster over dramatically. Two data points are Kansas and North Carolina. North Carolina had two high profile transfers come in - Manek (who starts and plays big minutes) and Garcia (who has been on leave since January). Kansas has two transfers (Coleman-Lands and Yesufu) who play minimally. The core for both teams is comprised of players who have been at their school for at least two years.

[valpotx]

Knocking on wood, as I type this, but if TK plays another year, and Kobe is granted another season, I think that we are in good position, all things considered.  With limited video examples, I think that Nick Edwards is a good replacement for Sheldon leaving, and if Connor can return to his FR form, the loss of Keyondre/Trey is minimized.  We would need someone to step up to replace what Kevion brought, however.

[vu72]

Knocking on wood, as I type this, but if TK plays another year, and Kobe is granted another season, I think that we are in good position, all things considered.  With limited video examples, I think that Nick Edwards is a good replacement for Sheldon leaving, and if Connor can return to his FR form, the loss of Keyondre/Trey is minimized.  We would need someone to step up to replace what Kevion brought, however.

[/b]

Maximus Nelson. 6'8"  200# SF, Rival 3 star, who shoots the 3 at about 35%, maybe a little better.  Kevion shot 38%

[valpotx]

Yes, but wasn't Trey a sharpshooter, as well?  He was too slow in his release, so we can't put too much into HS stats.

[valpo84]

I find it interesting that the best teams may look to refine their roster with transfers, not turn their roster over dramatically. Two data points are Kansas and North Carolina. North Carolina had two high profile transfers come in - Manek (who starts and plays big minutes) and Garcia (who has been on leave since January). Kansas has two transfers (Coleman-Lands and Yesufu) who play minimally. The core for both teams is comprised of players who have been at their school for at least two years.

Point of reference, Remy Martin was a super-senior transfer to Kansas from ASU.  He has been their tempo difference-maker since the Big 8 err 12 Conference Tourney. 

[vu84v2]

I find it interesting that the best teams may look to refine their roster with transfers, not turn their roster over dramatically. Two data points are Kansas and North Carolina. North Carolina had two high profile transfers come in - Manek (who starts and plays big minutes) and Garcia (who has been on leave since January). Kansas has two transfers (Coleman-Lands and Yesufu) who play minimally. The core for both teams is comprised of players who have been at their school for at least two years.

Point of reference, Remy Martin was a super-senior transfer to Kansas from ASU.  He has been their tempo difference-maker since the Big 8 err 12 Conference Tourney. 

Can't believe that I missed that (and I am also a Kansas alum and fan). You are absolutely correct.

[VU2014]

Loyola and GCU...?

Seriously? What a kick in the nuts to Valpo Fans...

I think Sheldon is going to the one that gives him a soft guarantee or most likely chance of starting + playing time.

https://twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1511038718978764802?s=21&t=3nHI9E94iVp4gMRZaxRwPQ

[mj]

Guess Edwards wasn't homesick after all.

[crusader05]

To be fair to Edwards. He indicated in his interview with Paul that this wasn't about wanting to be closer to home or feeling homesick but feeling like he didn't quite fit into the style of basketball that Valpo plays and wanted to go somewhere he felt he would fit more.

I think there can be a habit of wanting to either fully blame the coach or act like the players are lying/unreasonable. But many commenters on here talked badly about Edward's style of play and maybe it's because he never quite fit.

You can criticize him for wanting to play a different style but I feel like if he wants to try something or someplace different that's his right and his choice.  As far as I can tell none of his family have every trash talked valpo. He's showed up and played and did his thing for Valpo.  If it's not a fit or he feels like he has a limited amount of time to have a college basketball career and wants to do it somewhere else I feel like he can make that decision without anyone being at fault or "wrong" in these situations.

[VU2014]

To be fair to Edwards. He indicated in his interview with Paul that this wasn't about wanting to be closer to home or feeling homesick but feeling like he didn't quite fit into the style of basketball that Valpo plays and wanted to go somewhere he felt he would fit more.

I think there can be a habit of wanting to either fully blame the coach or act like the players are lying/unreasonable. But many commenters on here talked badly about Edward's style of play and maybe it's because he never quite fit.

You can criticize him for wanting to play a different style but I feel like if he wants to try something or someplace different that's his right and his choice.  As far as I can tell none of his family have every trash talked valpo. He's showed up and played and did his thing for Valpo.  If it's not a fit or he feels like he has a limited amount of time to have a college basketball career and wants to do it somewhere else I feel like he can make that decision without anyone being at fault or "wrong" in these situations.

If Bryce Drew thinks Sheldon Edwards can play in his system, I have faith in him being a fit there.

Maybe it was our lack of a system/scheme that helped push him out the door. Also need to keep in mind that Sheldon is very active on social media and he see all the hate and negativity surrounding Lottich from Fans bashing his "system" (or lack there of) and add on top of his tweet after the Bradley game, makes me think he wasn't a fan Lottich's offensive scheme. Plus, I think he'd still be around if we were winning. It's easier to sacrifice minutes and swallow playing a role (coming off the bench) you're not crazy about, when you're winning games. Winning is fun and I don't need to tell anyone on this board, we haven't been doing a lot of consistent winning in the Lottich era... (here's hoping he gets the boot after next season...).

[VU75]

To be fair to Edwards. He indicated in his interview with Paul that this wasn't about wanting to be closer to home or feeling homesick but feeling like he didn't quite fit into the style of basketball that Valpo plays and wanted to go somewhere he felt he would fit more

And to be fair to Lottich I can't imagine Drew didn't put in a call to his former assistant before recruiting Edwards.

[oklahomamick]

Edwards was homesick like JFL was homesick.

[mp91]

Those are actually great fits for Edwards.

Valpo needs to get in on some of these IU rejects.

Let's become what Nevada was a couple years ago and build a roster around other program's transfers. Become a steppingstone team for a couple years to become competitive and increase name/brand awareness. Then, once you have a little success and a foundation, you can build internally. Go full English Premier League. Let's become West Ham.

[mp91]

All this transferring seems so chaotic, and has got to be so demoralizing for the team members left behind.

For some, yes. But, most of these guys are friends and understand a guy's reasoning/motivation for transferring – and, therefore, are fine with it. For others, they are happy a guy is gone because they complain a lot, etc. And, yes, it's definitely frustrating for some. But, being around a lot of players over the years, it's typically not that big of a deal. It's just the way it is.

[crusader05]

Yeah I think that for those of us who are not fully plugged in there's an assumption of more "drama" around transferring than the players feel. BUT these are players who have or have had friends jump from AAU Team to AAU team, transfer schools, go to prep school etc etc etc. They know a lot of them are chasing the biggest opportunity with a short time clock to execute within and don't judge them.

In reality college basketball is just now catching up to a structure many of them are used to. They also now have so many more professional opportunities with over-seas basketball that it's no longer really a pro or not pro debate which may increase pressure on players who now feel like they have a shot but they need more exposure etc. Or some of them really  just want to go to the tournament or play before a big crowd before their career is over and if they're not getting it from the school they're at why wouldn't they look elsewhere?

[vu72]

So at this point, relative to other Valley schools, Valpo is doing very well in the transfer-out portal.

I took a look at MVC Blog's guess at starting lineups--if everybody came back, and there are some major losses for several teams. This also takes into account those lost to graduation.

Here is their rankings if nobody left:

1. Northern Iowa      Starters lost:  2  Carter and Green
2. Murray State        Starters lost:  4  only Brown returns
3. Drake                  Starters lost:  NONE
4. Missouri State      Starters lost: 3  Black, Sharp and Moseley
5. Belmont               Starters lost: 1  Richard
6. Bradley                Starters lost: 1  Roberts
7. Southern Illinois   Starters lost: 1  Verplincken
8. Illinois State         Starters lost: 4 Reeves, Chapman, Strong and Freeman
9. Valpo                   Starters lost:  1  Edwards
10. Indiana State      Starters lost:  NONE
11.Evansville            Starters lost:  3, Givance, Sisley and Newton
12.UIC                     Starters lost:  2, Griffin and Johnson

So based on just losses, Drake should be the overwhelming favorite followed by Belmont, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Valpo, Indiana State, Bradley, Illinois State, Murray State, and a tie for worst between Evansville and UIC.

So there you have it!  I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!

[humbleopinion]

o there you have it!  I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!

With twelve teams, I believe we would have to finish in the top four to avoid Thursday.

[vuny98]

So at this point, relative to other Valley schools, Valpo is doing very well in the transfer-out portal. I took a look at MVC Blog's guess at stating lineups--if everybody came back, and there are some major losses for several teams. Here is their rankings if nobody left: 1. Northern Iowa      Starters lost: Carter 2. Murray State        Starters lost:  4  only Brown returns 3. Drake                  Starters lost:  NONE 4. Missouri State      Starters lost: 2  Black and Sharp 5. Belmont               Starters lost:  NONE 6. Bradley                Starters lost: 1  Roberts 7. Southern Illinois   Starters lost:  NONE 8. Illinois State         Starters lost:  2  Reeves and Strong 9. Valpo                   Starters lost:  1  Edwards 10. Indiana State      Starters lost:  NONE 11.Evansville            Starters lost:  2, Givance and Newton 12.UIC                     Starters lost:  2, Griffin and Johnson So based on just losses, Drake should be the overwhelming favorite followed by Belmont, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Valpo, Indiana State, Bradley, Illinois State, Murray State, and a tie for worst between Evansville and UIC. So there you have it!  I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!

This doesn't account for players lost to graduation though too... Anderson (when healthy) and Taylor were key starters for us... Edwards only started 10 of 32 games, so you could make the argument he wasn't even a starter (although he certainly played starter level minutes).

[vu72]

So at this point, relative to other Valley schools, Valpo is doing very well in the transfer-out portal. I took a look at MVC Blog's guess at stating lineups--if everybody came back, and there are some major losses for several teams. Here is their rankings if nobody left: 1. Northern Iowa      Starters lost: Carter 2. Murray State        Starters lost:  4  only Brown returns 3. Drake                  Starters lost:  NONE 4. Missouri State      Starters lost: 2  Black and Sharp 5. Belmont               Starters lost:  NONE 6. Bradley                Starters lost: 1  Roberts 7. Southern Illinois   Starters lost:  NONE 8. Illinois State         Starters lost:  2  Reeves and Strong 9. Valpo                   Starters lost:  1  Edwards 10. Indiana State      Starters lost:  NONE 11.Evansville            Starters lost:  2, Givance and Newton 12.UIC                     Starters lost:  2, Griffin and Johnson So based on just losses, Drake should be the overwhelming favorite followed by Belmont, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Valpo, Indiana State, Bradley, Illinois State, Murray State, and a tie for worst between Evansville and UIC. So there you have it!  I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!

This doesn't account for players lost to graduation though too... Anderson (when healthy) and Taylor were key starters for us... Edwards only started 10 of 32 games, so you could make the argument he wasn't even a starter (although he certainly played starter level minutes).

The MVC Blog I mentioned, posted their projected starters for NEXT year.  all graduations were taken into account.  Our projected starters were Thomas, Ben, Preston, Kobe and Sheldon.

[valpo64]

Sheldon didn't feel comfortable in Lottich's system???  He should have known the system before he signed a NLI!  Come on guys...this is just another case of the me, me, me thing just like so many other players and be sure to say/post something nice when leaving.  This transfer thing has got to go in the form it is in.  Who is kidding who?  The Murray State fiasco losing basically their whole team and now St.Peter's losing 3 guys.  A number of schools have loaded up on guys coming in from the portal and while some teams had success with a team of transfers many have had problems developing continuity and consistency, as in our case, when getting carried away with signing these "portal guys".  I guess we need to develop HR Departments in our NCAA basketball programs to keep track of player personnel coming and going so the coaches can concentrate on coaching instead of giving personality tests along with mental health evaluations.

[vu72]

o there you have it!  I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!

With twelve teams, I believe we would have to finish in the top four to avoid Thursday.

Good question as to how they set up the tournament.  One option is the last two don't make the tournament at all, then 7-10 play on Thursday etc.  Another option would be for the bottom four to play on campus sites, with the winners getting to the tourney.  They would then need five wins to get to the NCAAs.  Who knows!

[valpopal]

This transfer thing has got to go in the form it is in.  Who is kidding who?  The Murray State fiasco losing basically their whole team and now St.Peter's losing 3 guys. 

I can't blame players at these two schools when both of their coaches left for other programs.

[vu72]

This transfer thing has got to go in the form it is in.  Who is kidding who?  The Murray State fiasco losing basically their whole team and now St.Peter's losing 3 guys. 

I can't blame players at these two schools when both of their coaches left for other programs.

Agree but at Murray their old coach is coming back.  His record was very good but perhaps his reputation with his players was less than stellar. Just seems odd that with a known coach with many years of ties to the school that basically the entire team bails.

[crusader05]

Did he ever coach the players that are leaving? Just cause he has a history with Murray State doesn't mean that the players care about that.