St. Thomas (MN) to join Pioneer Conference?

[usc4valpo]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27767474/university-st-thomas-booted-d-iii-success-gets-division-invite

Ouch for the Crusaders!

[IndyValpo]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27767474/university-st-thomas-booted-d-iii-success-gets-division-invite

Ouch for the Crusaders!

From a results standpoint most definitely. For the PFL the more similar sized schools the better. Rumor is Augustana SD might be a PFL candidate one day as well.

[vu72]

Great!  The PFL needs more geographical diversification!!

[usc4valpo]

It does have a Big 10 Midwest flavor!

[VULB#62]

FYI, St. Thomas has a 6,300+ enrollment and an endowment of $436 million. They are asking the NCAA for a waiver to go from DIII to DI without transitioning through DII. The PFL board so far is pretty positive about the Tommies joining in the same year as Presbyterian in 2021, I believe.

Here are the scores of their first three 2019 games.......    One might understand why they ere kicked out of their league.

Trinity International (remember them?) WON 69-3 OOC GAME
Hamline (DIII conference member) WON 76-14
UW-Eau Claire (OOC DIII away game) LOSS 21-19 —- whoa, a real upset.

[JD24]

St Thomas may seem imposing at the moment but the structure of their football program will need to be altered if they join the PFL and thus, they might not be as daunting as it appears.

[usc4valpo]

The Tommies would defeat Valpo and most Pioneer teams decisively.

[VULB#62]

St Thomas may seem imposing at the moment but the structure of their football program will need to be altered if they join the PFL and thus, they might not be as daunting as it appears.

I don't  follow. They are DIII in all sports — i.e., no scholarships. If they go DI, They will do exactly as Valpo has done. Provide MBB and WBB full scholarships, piecemeal the other sports, and go PFL in football with no scholarships. How would this force them to alter the FB program?

[JD24]

St Thomas may seem imposing at the moment but the structure of their football program will need to be altered if they join the PFL and thus, they might not be as daunting as it appears.

I don't  follow. They are DIII in all sports — i.e., no scholarships. If they go DI, They will do exactly as Valpo has done. Provide MBB and WBB full scholarships, piecemeal the other sports, and go PFL in football with no scholarships. How would this force them to alter the FB program?

Ah crapola. I thought they were DII. In that case uscvalpo will be happy to note that the Tommies will beat Valpo like a drum.

[usc4valpo]

St. Thomas and St. John's in MN have been powerhouses in D3 football for awhile.

[usc4valpo]

The problem I have with Valpo and the football program is their commitment to provide a product just to have it rather than having a vision for eventual success.

[vu72]

St. Thomas and St. John's have been very good football programs at the D3 level, but neither is a Mount Union or even Augustana (IL.) Going back to 1973, St. John's has two National Titles and one runner-up and St. Thomas has Two Runner-ups.  Augustana on the other hand has won four titles and Mount Union has won 13!!!!

[usc4valpo]

St. John's won in 2003 under the legendary John Gagliardi, whose coaching philosophy was as unique and successful as you can get. No contact duration no practice, no whistles, no swearing, no calisthenics, etc.

[covufan]

The problem I have with Valpo and the football program is their commitment to provide a product just to have it rather than having a vision for eventual success.

Ding ding ding!

There is no reason that Valpo can't be competitive at football, other than the administration is not committed to success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vu72]

The problem I have with Valpo and the football program is their commitment to provide a product just to have it rather than having a vision for eventual success.

Ding ding ding!

There is no reason that Valpo can't be competitive at football, other than the administration is not committed to success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More specifics please.  If all you can say is "they aren't committed" then that is truly just hot air.  Did you want the Board to be out recruiting?  Did you want President Heckler to run tackling drills?  Since Dave came the University has added a first class weight room, new locker room a full time strength coach just for football and now first class turf.  Please don't say "if we only had better seating".
The reality is that Valpo is located in Indiana and Indiana is a basketball state.  Check out Butler's success (or lack thereof).Check out IU's success.  Check out Purdue's success. Check out Ball State's success.  Check out Indiana States success.  They all have much better exposure athletically, have better facilities(I guess) and still struggle.  I'm all for winning.  Give us the answers!!

[usc4valpo]

Valpo's stands and press box are below par of HS stadiums - in Iowa no less! I would want to compare weight room and locker room facilities with the rest of the conference.

[vu72]

Valpo's stands and press box are below par of HS stadiums - in Iowa no less! I would want to compare weight room and locker room facilities with the rest of the conference.

Have you even seen them?  Press boxes (to my knowledge) haven't won a single game.  Back to the question.  What do you want the administration to do?

[usc4valpo]

I would like to see transparency that the financial and  time commitment to football from Valparaiso leadership  is inline with the rest of the schools in the conference. When this program is dead last in the conference on a consistent basis, there is something lacking that needs to be identified and addressed. It has nothing to do with football in Indiana. It has nothing to do with Valpos academics as these schools for the most part are similar academically. Also, regarding upgrades Valpo has made, they have been consistently reactive rather than trying to make any attempt to be ahead of the competition.

[covufan]

The problem I have with Valpo and the football program is their commitment to provide a product just to have it rather than having a vision for eventual success.

Ding ding ding!

There is no reason that Valpo can't be competitive at football, other than the administration is not committed to success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More specifics please.  If all you can say is "they aren't committed" then that is truly just hot air.  Did you want the Board to be out recruiting?  Did you want President Heckler to run tackling drills?  Since Dave came the University has added a first class weight room, new locker room a full time strength coach just for football and now first class turf.  Please don't say "if we only had better seating".
The reality is that Valpo is located in Indiana and Indiana is a basketball state.  Check out Butler's success (or lack thereof).Check out IU's success.  Check out Purdue's success. Check out Ball State's success.  Check out Indiana States success.  They all have much better exposure athletically, have better facilities(I guess) and still struggle.  I'm all for winning.  Give us the answers!!

You want specifics?  I was merely agreeing with usc4valpo's post about the administration just committed to providing a product (football) vice having a vision of how the football program can be successful.  In the first 53 years of football at Valpo, the team had 34 non-losing seasons, with one 11 year stretch of winning seasons.  In the last 45 years of football, there have only been 11 non-losing seasons, with a 13 year stretch of losing seasons.  I'd say that sums up nearly five decades of the administration not committed to providing a quality football product.  You may think different.  Since we went Division I in football in 1993, we've only had 7 non-losing seasons, 6 of them in the Tom Horne years.  I think it is pretty clear that the administration wants the tuition of those that football provides, but not the responsibility of providing a quality product.

What does it take to be successful in the PFL?  I don't really know, as I'm not close to any of the programs.  I think you hit on some of the areas that clearly needed upgrading - weight room and locker room.  The administration and former players agreed to provide these upgrades.  How long were these upgrades needed?  I don't know. 

I don't know how one, presumably with a HS education, makes the leap from me saying the administration is not committed to me wanting the board to recruit or Heckler to run tackling drills - you'll need to connect the dots for me on that one.  I will say that previous football staffs not taking recruiting tips from former players is another example of the administration not being committed. 

I do know that two former PFL teams that went from not having football at all to FCS scholarship football shows administration commitment.  Am I expecting that level of commitment? No, just the level to be competitive in the PFL.  Wofford College is smaller in student body, campus size and endowment.  Yet, they provide an FCS team that has been to the post season several times.  I think that shows commitment.  Are these schools in the south, where football is king? Yes. Is that an advantage to getting players that want to continue their football career at the college level?  Possibly. 

I still believe that Valpo can be competitive in the PFL.  We have the Chicago and Indy areas within a few hour drive of Valpo.  The problem is finding the HS athlete that wants to continue playing at the college level, vice moving on to one of the larger state schools for just the education.  I'm sure Brown Field is not a recruiting gem is this regard.  Imagine playing for a HS team that routinely played in stadiums larger and more filled than Brown.  We need to be able to sell the Valpo experience and education, and a winning football tradition, which we don't have. 

What does administration commitment look like?  Not completely sure, but it has to do a lot with $$$.  Where have we been in the PFL as far as spending?  If we've been in the top half of spending over the last 15 years, then we aren't spending it in the right areas, or the talent evaluation of who we are giving it to is way off.  Are we getting the best assistants available?  Are we getting young assistants that will be moving on to FBS schools soon?  How is administration keeping in touch with football alumni?  How is the administration making the game day experience a memorable one?  Without strong memories related to football, people find other things to do (and to donate time/resources).  While the lonesome polecat was memorable, it isn't a good memory. 

[usc4valpo]

I have to agree with co's post, not because he just agrees with my post. We gave specifics, and the football program is embarrassing right now, and it can only get better. I hope Fox gets the financial and personnel support he needs to turn around this mess.

[vu72]

The problem I have with Valpo and the football program is their commitment to provide a product just to have it rather than having a vision for eventual success.

Ding ding ding!

There is no reason that Valpo can't be competitive at football, other than the administration is not committed to success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More specifics please.  If all you can say is "they aren't committed" then that is truly just hot air.  Did you want the Board to be out recruiting?  Did you want President Heckler to run tackling drills?  Since Dave came the University has added a first class weight room, new locker room a full time strength coach just for football and now first class turf.  Please don't say "if we only had better seating".
The reality is that Valpo is located in Indiana and Indiana is a basketball state.  Check out Butler's success (or lack thereof).Check out IU's success.  Check out Purdue's success. Check out Ball State's success.  Check out Indiana States success.  They all have much better exposure athletically, have better facilities(I guess) and still struggle.  I'm all for winning.  Give us the answers!!

You want specifics?  I was merely agreeing with usc4valpo's post about the administration just committed to providing a product (football) vice having a vision of how the football program can be successful.  In the first 53 years of football at Valpo, the team had 34 non-losing seasons, with one 11 year stretch of winning seasons.  In the last 45 years of football, there have only been 11 non-losing seasons, with a 13 year stretch of losing seasons.  I'd say that sums up nearly five decades of the administration not committed to providing a quality football product.  You may think different.  Since we went Division I in football in 1993, we've only had 7 non-losing seasons, 6 of them in the Tom Horne years.  I think it is pretty clear that the administration wants the tuition of those that football provides, but not the responsibility of providing a quality product.

What does it take to be successful in the PFL?  I don't really know, as I'm not close to any of the programs.  I think you hit on some of the areas that clearly needed upgrading - weight room and locker room.  The administration and former players agreed to provide these upgrades.  How long were these upgrades needed?  I don't know. 

I don't know how one, presumably with a HS education, makes the leap from me saying the administration is not committed to me wanting the board to recruit or Heckler to run tackling drills - you'll need to connect the dots for me on that one.  I will say that previous football staffs not taking recruiting tips from former players is another example of the administration not being committed. 

I do know that two former PFL teams that went from not having football at all to FCS scholarship football shows administration commitment.  Am I expecting that level of commitment? No, just the level to be competitive in the PFL.  Wofford College is smaller in student body, campus size and endowment.  Yet, they provide an FCS team that has been to the post season several times.  I think that shows commitment.  Are these schools in the south, where football is king? Yes. Is that an advantage to getting players that want to continue their football career at the college level?  Possibly. 

I still believe that Valpo can be competitive in the PFL.  We have the Chicago and Indy areas within a few hour drive of Valpo.  The problem is finding the HS athlete that wants to continue playing at the college level, vice moving on to one of the larger state schools for just the education.  I'm sure Brown Field is not a recruiting gem is this regard.  Imagine playing for a HS team that routinely played in stadiums larger and more filled than Brown.  We need to be able to sell the Valpo experience and education, and a winning football tradition, which we don't have. 

What does administration commitment look like?  Not completely sure, but it has to do a lot with $$$.  Where have we been in the PFL as far as spending?  If we've been in the top half of spending over the last 15 years, then we aren't spending it in the right areas, or the talent evaluation of who we are giving it to is way off.  Are we getting the best assistants available?  Are we getting young assistants that will be moving on to FBS schools soon?  How is administration keeping in touch with football alumni?  How is the administration making the game day experience a memorable one?  Without strong memories related to football, people find other things to do (and to donate time/resources).  While the lonesome polecat was memorable, it isn't a good memory. 

Wow!  Low blow.  Urban Meyer is unemployed.

[JD24]

As far as amenities are concerned, I've thought for years that some "cosmetic" upgrades to Brown Field would make the facility much more appealing without doing anything else. The playing field and track is actually pretty nice but the setting of said field and track is just awful. It is extremely "dry". Is there a way of "enclosing" the facility a bit which creates more of a bowl effect? Even a high chainlink fence covered by a tarp in the corners would probably help. There's probably a current or former player who's parent owns a company capable of providing it for them if they'd look into it.

[usc4valpo]

A press box not representing Spanky's our gang clubhouse would be good to have.

[JD24]

A press box not representing Spanky's our gang clubhouse would be good to have.

I'll reiterate my comment that somebody has to be connected to a company which could handle a replacement as a donation.