Valpo: #246 again and again

[TC28]

What would be the point of firing the coach? So we can try to rebuild the program for another 4 years? Coach Carlson has had 1 full recruiting class. Most of which are contributing. Carlson is still filtering out what was left from the last coaching staff.  If Valpo hasn't won a game by next year, then there's something to talk about. The fact of the matter is that the team is young. Its hard to win with inexperience.

And why would the University get rid of football when they're just starting to actually put money into it? (New field, uniforms, coaches, etc.)  Like it or not, football is a revenue generating sport. They'd be stupid to drop it.

[vu72]

"CLEARLY the least favored person for the job"??  Where do you get your information?  I have spoken with people "very high up" who told me Coach Carlson was the top choice from several very qualified candidates.  People from all over the country applied for the job.

Having played at Valpo, and not being on scholarship, I can tell you that it is a different world from the Notre Dames of the world, or any other scholarship program.  When no money is in play the student/athlete can lose interest pretty quickly.  So, let's say your third on the depth chart and are beating your brains in playing special teams.  You realize that your dream of starting at quarterback is not going to happen.  You can stick it out with all the meetings, weight lifting etc., or call it a day, focus on a very challenging academic program and spend more time chasing coeds.  That is the reality of non-scholarship football, and particularly when you are losing every week.
It will take time.  If you are hearing from disgruntled players, consider what I just wrote.  My guess is the starters are willing to stick it out in the hopes of getting more help in future recruiting classes, who knows.

I'm not saying the coaching is perfect, obviously it isn't.  I am saying that we need to give him time.  How many programs--anywhere, will fire a coach after a year and a half??

[valpotx]

That discussion has been beaten to death, and setshot just likes to mention it in every 1-2 posts he makes.  Everyone that pays attention knows that it is the only athletic program we have that actually makes money.  Now, it probably doesn't make the money it used to when we won a few championships and had larger crowds because of it, but any profit for a sport is a good thing!

Carlson will turn this around.  This FR QB seems like he will be much better as his career develops.  We just need some impact players on defense, and an O-line to help.  All it takes is a few good players to turn around a D-1 non-scholarship program.  Look at what Murrell did for our first PFL championship (with Tom Clancy running I believe), and David Macchi with Giancola.  Those teams were fun to watch while I was in school, and we had good crowds throughout.

[agibson]

Everyone that pays attention knows that it is the only athletic program we have that actually makes money.

I'm sure you're right, that this has been stated before.  But, I'd forgotten this particular formulation.  Hard to prove (how many football players would have gone elsewhere, if we didn't have football?), and maybe some other few-scholarship sport could be in the conversation. 

But, comparing to basketball, for the simple version of "receipts minus expenses" it's probably correct.  Difficult to estimate the advertising and reputation value of basketball success, of course.

[setshot]

Winning a football game has become a sense of urgency. Hell, my wife and I are '54 and '55 graduates of VU and we want a winning team now. Waiting another 4 or 5 years may not be an option. As George Allen proclaimed "the future is now." Let's win at least one game this year and 6 or 7 next year. Go Valpo!

[TripleT]

Never once did I mention that Valpo should do away with football.  However, what I'm saying is the current coaching system isn't working.  I realize this might be a tough message for some to hear - but the truth hurts and the sooner the AD and other administration realizes it, the better for all.

This business of scholarship vs non-scholarship is a mute point.  REMEMBER - valpo plays in a league with other non-scholarship teams and no matter what it's still a DI football team that can be competitive along with the others.

Stop pointing fingers at 'the other guy' - the former HC is long gone!!! Face it - Carlson's coaching system isn't working and for all those that think it is continue to sending him great emails to stroke his ego.  But just remember it's not his ego that should be the concern.

Oh, wait better yet - attend the golf outing next year cause I'm sure he will have a tough time trying to make that a reality next year but I suppose the program can wait another 2-3 years.  AND YES you better believe fundraising is a big part of his job.  He aint making a difference on the field or with donors.

[covufan]

This business of scholarship vs non-scholarship is a mute point. 

[covufan]

Winning a football game has become a sense of urgency. Hell, my wife and I are '54 and '55 graduates of VU and we want a winning team now. Waiting another 4 or 5 years may not be an option. As George Allen proclaimed "the future is now." Let's win at least one game this year and 6 or 7 next year. Go Valpo!

I think most here would agree that they would like to see a winning program soon. 

This doesn't mean that I agree with setshot, does it?

[milanmiracle]

Look, they're too far in at this point to go back. Stay the course and hope for the best. It's midway through year two. If things aren't better after next season and they're still winless...The discussion can begin about making changes, but not until then. I am in favor of giving all coaches 4 years.

My point with this coaching staff has always been, and will continue to be this...do they give the players on the roster the best chance to win today. Not next year, or next month, but the next game against the next opponent? I don't believe this coaching staff does that, or has done that. If you can only run one "system", you're not much of a coach.

As for the making money part...being the laughingstock of college football does nothing but send the university brand backwards. I have friends who have no intererst in Valpo whatsoever, but do have the time to joke about the scores running across ESPN. "They won a game yet?" If you don't think that changes the general public opinion of a university, you're kidding yourself. What do you think of when you think of Prairie View A&M? I am guessing "success" isn't one of those words.

I don't have the solution or answer, but let's hope this current staff can get the ship turned around and we can all say "remember when..."

[leftcoast]

Drop football. Concentrate on sports like soccer, basketball and baseball where Valpo can actually compete. Gonzaga comes to mind.

[setshot]

AGREE!

[rlh]

I don't know why at this point, after this many years, I am surprised at the ignorance of some of our so called "fans", but some continue to amaze me

[valporun]

I don't know why at this point, after this many years, I am surprised at the ignorance of some of our so called "fans", but some continue to amaze me

Instant gratification is a demonic phrase. It is like a disease that afflicts most fans who wants WINS NOW, and ONLY WINS. Too many "fans" won't allow a team to grow, or a coach to get his system working. We see this with our football team daily now, and this can be associated with the Chicago Cubs. Every fan wants Mike Quade gone, and have basically named Ryne Sandberg his replacement, only one problem...THEO AND JED HAVEN'T FIRED HIM YET! That decision is still up in the air, it could happen, and it might not happen, but that isn't up to the fans.
Coach Carlson just need a full team of his own recruits, get the "cancers" out of the locker room, and let the players who don't want to be in this system play/practice themselves out of it.

[historyman]

I don't know why at this point, after this many years, I am surprised at the ignorance of some of our so called "fans", but some continue to amaze me

Instant gratification is a demonic phrase. It is like a disease that afflicts most fans who wants WINS NOW, and ONLY WINS. Too many "fans" won't allow a team to grow, or a coach to get his system working. We see this with our football team daily now, and this can be associated with the Chicago Cubs. Every fan wants Mike Quade gone, and have basically named Ryne Sandberg his replacement, only one problem...THEO AND JED HAVEN'T FIRED HIM YET! That decision is still up in the air, it could happen, and it might not happen, but that isn't up to the fans.
Coach Carlson just need a full team of his own recruits, get the "cancers" out of the locker room, and let the players who don't want to be in this system play/practice themselves out of it.

I'm certainly willing to give Coach Carlson his 4 years to get his own players into place. Would you also agree that if once Carlson has completed his 4 years in 2013-14 that if Valpo has not won a game or won 1 game and the Crusaders have only scored within 20 points of 1 or 2 teams that it is time to take a serious look at the coaching staff? I sincerely hope Coach Carlson improves this Valpo football team enough to start winning on a regular basis by 2013-14 but his time is getting shorter. 

[rlh]

I don't know why at this point, after this many years, I am surprised at the ignorance of some of our so called "fans", but some continue to amaze me

Instant gratification is a demonic phrase. It is like a disease that afflicts most fans who wants WINS NOW, and ONLY WINS. Too many "fans" won't allow a team to grow, or a coach to get his system working. We see this with our football team daily now, and this can be associated with the Chicago Cubs. Every fan wants Mike Quade gone, and have basically named Ryne Sandberg his replacement, only one problem...THEO AND JED HAVEN'T FIRED HIM YET! That decision is still up in the air, it could happen, and it might not happen, but that isn't up to the fans.
Coach Carlson just need a full team of his own recruits, get the "cancers" out of the locker room, and let the players who don't want to be in this system play/practice themselves out of it.

I'm certainly willing to give Coach Carlson his 4 years to get his own players into place. Would you also agree that if once Carlson has completed his 4 years in 2013-14 that if Valpo has not won a game or won 1 game and the Crusaders have only scored within 20 points of 1 or 2 teams that it is time to take a serious look at the coaching staff? I sincerely hope Coach Carlson improves this Valpo football team enough to start winning on a regular basis by 2013-14 but his time is getting shorter. 

Yes, then I would agree...but let's give him his full four years to see if there's improvement.  I really think there is improvement this year, it just doesn't show in wins yet....but sometimes beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[valpotx]

Most definitely, if we don't win a game in his first 4 years, there is no longer an excuse to be made.  We have won 2 PFL titles in the last 11 years, it isn't like it can't be done.  We have beaten the likes of Dayton, Morehead, Jacksonville, Davidson, etc in those years.  I think this FR QB will do good things next year, as long as we get the resources around him.

[covufan]

I don't know why at this point, after this many years, I am surprised at the ignorance of some of our so called "fans", but some continue to amaze me

Instant gratification is a demonic phrase. It is like a disease that afflicts most fans who wants WINS NOW, and ONLY WINS. Too many "fans" won't allow a team to grow, or a coach to get his system working. We see this with our football team daily now, and this can be associated with the Chicago Cubs. Every fan wants Mike Quade gone, and have basically named Ryne Sandberg his replacement, only one problem...THEO AND JED HAVEN'T FIRED HIM YET! That decision is still up in the air, it could happen, and it might not happen, but that isn't up to the fans.
Coach Carlson just need a full team of his own recruits, get the "cancers" out of the locker room, and let the players who don't want to be in this system play/practice themselves out of it.

I'm certainly willing to give Coach Carlson his 4 years to get his own players into place. Would you also agree that if once Carlson has completed his 4 years in 2013-14 that if Valpo has not won a game or won 1 game and the Crusaders have only scored within 20 points of 1 or 2 teams that it is time to take a serious look at the coaching staff? I sincerely hope Coach Carlson improves this Valpo football team enough to start winning on a regular basis by 2013-14 but his time is getting shorter. 

Would agree as well.  I'm expecting the offense to improve next year, especially with turnovers and ball control.  Hopefully, that will keep the defense off the field a bit more next year.

[swiftmutiny]

Currently tied 7-7 against Marist. Offense seems to be moving the ball pretty well.

[KL31NY]

Ali-El fumble leads to late 1st half Marist TD. With a field goal earlier, that makes it 17-7 Red Foxes almost at the break. Although the margin is manageable, those kind of happenings spell a Valpo loss. It's kinda like how the bottom fell out like week against Dayton.

[valpopal]

Marist wins 30-7.

[Football Fan]

I just listened/watched the marist feed of the game.  Wow.  Why are we playing QB'S and RB's and TE's and WR's that continuously fumble the ball and throw interceptions?  There are those who are not making mistakes.  granted, they are not freshmen, but can we play to win.......just once?  You Coach are killing everyone except your precious freshmen.  They aren't getting it done.  Give your team a chance. It's admirable to admit you are wrong, but quit doing the same wrong thing game after game after game.  Remember, we parents pay the bills.

The Marist announcers in the 4th on a kick off laughed about our #5 and #23 being afraid to go near the ball....."Look, no one wants to return it!" is what they said.....it did look like that was the case.

The announcers also said Carlson told them he was playing a young team......and they make mistakes.  Seriously, I haven't seen this many MISTAKES since Pee Wee football. 

This losing is not about the team......it is caused by coaching mistakes. Every time progress is made on the field, his crazy substitutions begin and we go into a tailspin.  No one is suggesting that there aren't some talented freshmen on the team....but not ALLLLLLLLL of them.  You need experience and size and game smarts.  Watch the tapes...check the stats. Admit you are wrong about who you are playing and fix it.  We need a win and it it NOT going to happen with this line up.  

[milanmiracle]

Remember it's all about the "system". Um...

On a positive note, at least the score made it look like a real football game took place. Losing by only 3 touchdowns is an improvement!

[VULB#62]

Good Morning.  I FINALLY found a place to express my  regarding VU football.  As this is my first reply/post, please forgive the long windedness.

As a former Crusader from back in the Walt Reiner era and living half-way across the country low these many years I have watched the ups and downs of the football program from afar.  But I had not gone back to the campus in over 40 years, so I couldn't see how things were going for myself.... at least until the 2009 Marist game in Poughkeepsie that I finally was able to attend - a 0-24 loss.  I've been back to campus since and attended the Marist game again yesterday.  I got a chance to see things for myself, chat with some parents and draw some conclusions. It was a long drive home which gave me lots of time to organize my thoughts. Then, by accident, I found all of you guys. So here are my thoughts after reading through most of the FB posts with my morning coffee

I believe FB program success revolves around the following life-cycle:

Identify talented players
Attract talented players
Develop those players
Establish appropriate (O & D) systems for team competitive success
Coach up players within the chosen systems
Retain players

I believe the current program, in the last year and a half,  has brought some strengths to bear on some of those elements, but in some areas it is still handicapped.  I believe the identification process has improved and the process to get talented players to consider Valpo is much better than in the past.  I also see an effort to get a consistent weight program in place for player development and a general structure that is more attuned to a DI program.

HOWEVER, I also compare VU with what I have observed and learned about other PFL programs.  What I have concluded is that the rest of the league is pulling away from Valpo in terms of commitment.  Existing facilities at the Drakes, Marists, Campbells, Daytons of this world were always better than Brown Field.  Now Jacksonville just completed installation of their new track around their FB field to complete that facility and Butler has just opened a large, new press box and expanded the seating at Butler Bowl. The league is expanding to Stetson and Mercer, both located in the football crazy southeast which will make being competitive in the league, much less against FCS scholarship programs, even tougher.    In the meantime some talented recent recruits have bailed on the program, the losses continue to pile up, and finger pointing has begun.

So where is VU at this point in terms of attracting and retaining talented players?  I went to Brown Field for a game this year:  No new track, puddles in the grass separating the playing field from the stands (where the track might go but now kind of isolates the game from the fans).  The home side stands are not visually impressive, smaller than some HS stadiums, and getting rusty.  The press box is kind of small.  In short,  it's not a DI FCS facility.  While there is a weight training facility, I understand that there really is no weight training facility that can support a program that has nearly 100 players on the roster (note that the facilities section of the VU Athletics web site does NOT highlight any weight room).  So if I'm a good football player, willing to pay my own way, and I visited VU facilities and - to select one close-by - Butler's, where would I go?  There are kids on the VU roster from Florida:  VU or Stetson or Jacksonville? Good Lutheran player from the northeast - VU or Marist? My son played at a DIII school in the northeast -- their facilities and the facilities of the other schools in the same league far surpass Valpo's.

In addition to academic reputation, course of study and campus culture and attractiveness, the attraction, development and retention of good football players is closely tied to facilities.  Homer could recruit good BB players because he had the ARC and the connected basketball offices etc. to show.  The turf field (sans track) and scoreboard are a start, but a new mascot and a blow-up arch isn't quite enough.  Kroencke Hall is not quite enough. The current (as well as past) staff can only do so much with this handicap.  Stacy Adams, in a local newspaper interview recently mentioned how his HS fb program at East Chicago (Central?) HS will have better weight training, practice and playing facilities than Valpo's.

Now as far as coaching systems and coaching the players within the system of choice -- that's another debate.  But it is also noteworthy to remember that with good talent, any system can work and bad coaching decisions can be overcome.

I believe that if VU wants to be even marginally competitive in the PFL, it must invest more in the program including upgrading the facilities.  The university cannot afford to wait until the hospital is demolished years down the road.  It can't wait to finally install the track that has been on the drawing boards for a decade.  It needs to expand and improve the weight training facility, and on and on.  The reason it can't wait is that , as many of you have indicated, ESPN FCS FB score crawler is killing us in terms of public perception and it is embarrassing..

I wish that Mark LaBarbera and Coach Carlson (as well as T&F and MSO and WSO) would (a) bury FIT and (b) start all over immediately by pull together a comprehensive athletic alumi campaign to fund these things. By creating  "Brown Field at Alumni Stadium" (sorry, my vision) expanding an upgraded training facility not only would FB benefit, but so would the track program as well as men's and women's soccer.

[IndyValpo]

I just listened/watched the marist feed of the game.  Wow.  Why are we playing QB'S and RB's and TE's and WR's that continuously fumble the ball and throw interceptions?  There are those who are not making mistakes.  granted, they are not freshmen, but can we play to win.......just once?  You Coach are killing everyone except your precious freshmen.  They aren't getting it done.  Give your team a chance. It's admirable to admit you are wrong, but quit doing the same wrong thing game after game after game.  Remember, we parents pay the bills.

The Marist announcers in the 4th on a kick off laughed about our #5 and #23 being afraid to go near the ball....."Look, no one wants to return it!" is what they said.....it did look like that was the case.

The announcers also said Carlson told them he was playing a young team......and they make mistakes.  Seriously, I haven't seen this many MISTAKES since Pee Wee football.  

This losing is not about the team......it is caused by coaching mistakes. Every time progress is made on the field, his crazy substitutions begin and we go into a tailspin.  No one is suggesting that there aren't some talented freshmen on the team....but not ALLLLLLLLL of them.  You need experience and size and game smarts.  Watch the tapes...check the stats. Admit you are wrong about who you are playing and fix it.  We need a win and it it NOT going to happen with this line up.  

I know many times I rely on opposing announcers who identify players by numbers as a key basis for my analysis of what is going on.  For the record that #5 you mention has returned 48 kickoffs this year.  I defy you to find someone with that total.

[wh]

Good Morning.  I FINALLY found a place to express my  regarding VU football.  As this is my first reply/post, please forgive the long windedness.

As a former Crusader from back in the Walt Reiner era and living half-way across the country low these many years I have watched the ups and downs of the football program from afar.  But I had not gone back to the campus in over 40 years, so I couldn't see how things were going for myself.... at least until the 2009 Marist game in Poughkeepsie that I finally was able to attend - a 0-24 loss.  I've been back to campus since and attended the Marist game again yesterday.  I got a chance to see things for myself, chat with some parents and draw some conclusions. It was a long drive home which gave me lots of time to organize my thoughts. Then, by accident, I found all of you guys. So here are my thoughts after reading through most of the FB posts with my morning coffee

I believe FB program success revolves around the following life-cycle:

Identify talented players
Attract talented players
Develop those players
Establish appropriate (O & D) systems for team competitive success
Coach up players within the chosen systems
Retain players

I believe the current program, in the last year and a half,  has brought some strengths to bear on some of those elements, but in some areas it is still handicapped.  I believe the identification process has improved and the process to get talented players to consider Valpo is much better than in the past.  I also see an effort to get a consistent weight program in place for player development and a general structure that is more attuned to a DI program.

HOWEVER, I also compare VU with what I have observed and learned about other PFL programs.  What I have concluded is that the rest of the league is pulling away from Valpo in terms of commitment.  Existing facilities at the Drakes, Marists, Campbells, Daytons of this world were always better than Brown Field.  Now Jacksonville just completed installation of their new track around their FB field to complete that facility and Butler has just opened a large, new press box and expanded the seating at Butler Bowl. The league is expanding to Stetson and Mercer, both located in the football crazy southeast which will make being competitive in the league, much less against FCS scholarship programs, even tougher.    In the meantime some talented recent recruits have bailed on the program, the losses continue to pile up, and finger pointing has begun.

So where is VU at this point in terms of attracting and retaining talented players?  I went to Brown Field for a game this year:  No new track, puddles in the grass separating the playing field from the stands (where the track might go but now kind of isolates the game from the fans).  The home side stands are not visually impressive, smaller than some HS stadiums, and getting rusty.  The press box is kind of small.  In short,  it's not a DI FCS facility.  While there is a weight training facility, I understand that there really is no weight training facility that can support a program that has nearly 100 players on the roster (note that the facilities section of the VU Athletics web site does NOT highlight any weight room).  So if I'm a good football player, willing to pay my own way, and I visited VU facilities and - to select one close-by - Butler's, where would I go?  There are kids on the VU roster from Florida:  VU or Stetson or Jacksonville? Good Lutheran player from the northeast - VU or Marist? My son played at a DIII school in the northeast -- their facilities and the facilities of the other schools in the same league far surpass Valpo's.

In addition to academic reputation, course of study and campus culture and attractiveness, the attraction, development and retention of good football players is closely tied to facilities.  Homer could recruit good BB players because he had the ARC and the connected basketball offices etc. to show.  The turf field (sans track) and scoreboard are a start, but a new mascot and a blow-up arch isn't quite enough.  Kroencke Hall is not quite enough. The current (as well as past) staff can only do so much with this handicap.  Stacy Adams, in a local newspaper interview recently mentioned how his HS fb program at East Chicago (Central?) HS will have better weight training, practice and playing facilities than Valpo's.

Now as far as coaching systems and coaching the players within the system of choice -- that's another debate.  But it is also noteworthy to remember that with good talent, any system can work and bad coaching decisions can be overcome.

I believe that if VU wants to be even marginally competitive in the PFL, it must invest more in the program including upgrading the facilities.  The university cannot afford to wait until the hospital is demolished years down the road.  It can't wait to finally install the track that has been on the drawing boards for a decade.  It needs to expand and improve the weight training facility, and on and on.  The reason it can't wait is that , as many of you have indicated, ESPN FCS FB score crawler is killing us in terms of public perception and it is embarrassing..

I wish that Mark LaBarbera and Coach Carlson (as well as T&F and MSO and WSO) would (a) bury FIT and (b) start all over immediately by pull together a comprehensive athletic alumi campaign to fund these things. By creating  "Brown Field at Alumni Stadium" (sorry, my vision) expanding an upgraded training facility not only would FB benefit, but so would the track program as well as men's and women's soccer.

This should be a guest editorial in the sports section of the Times and Post Tribune.  A paid consultant couldn't have done a better job of summary analysis.