Valpo vs. Loyola Game Thread, Mon., Dec. 30, 2019, 7:00 p.m. CT

[VUGrad1314]

Well JFL and Clay for starters... Then you've got Robinson (at least for this year and next) but yeah everyone else has been pretty inconsistent at best.

[a3uge]

Well JFL and Clay for starters... Then you've got Robinson (at least for this year and next) but yeah everyone else has been pretty inconsistent at best.

JFL might make an MVC all 1st team, but the rest are role players. There's nothing resembling an impact player that has a chance to play in the NBA one day. It's not like this is a roster of 3 and 4 star recruits straight from high school.

[valpotx]

Wow, a lot of folks are understandably down at the moment, but take a step off that ledge.  We lost a lot between last season and this season, and I went into this season just hoping that we didn't embarrass ourselves each game.  This team has impressed me quite a bit, even with the annoying starts and required fight backs.  I think that Loyola will be top 3 in the MVC again, so it isn't like we just lost to Chicago State at home.  Someone questioned how I can be impressed?  Every time we get kicked in the teeth and could just give up, the team fights back.  It can be extremely demoralizing and used to be common in some of our losses, to get back to a single possession, give up a key 3/basket, and then just let the game slide back to a double digit loss.  Whether it is because of unscripted or scripted plays, I don't care...they fight back.  In prior years, I would question our team's cojones when they would get down, and just get blown out after that point.  This team cares, has a fight to it, and makes each game exciting, for good and for bad.  Yes, I yelled out at Sackey after that bone-headed pass to Krutwig, which should have been so easy to drop to Kiser to take the lead.  Yes, my wife had to take the kids out of the room at that moment .  However, this team walked me back, and gave me belief that we will solve these close games in the very near future, and all without two of our best players in at crunch time (JFL and Fazekas). 

[VUGrad1314]

Well JFL and Clay for starters... Then you've got Robinson (at least for this year and next) but yeah everyone else has been pretty inconsistent at best.

JFL might make an MVC all 1st team, but the rest are role players. There's nothing resembling an impact player that has a chance to play in the NBA one day. It's not like this is a roster of 3 and 4 star recruits straight from high school.

Do a lot of MVC teams have a roster full of 3 and 4 star recruits? That seems to be the exception not the rule. For the record I think Robinson was a 3 star and if JFL wasn't so thoroughly slept on he probably would have been. Was Clay? I don't remember. But we haven't had a lot of luck with 3 and 4 star players we've brought in. Burton Evelyn both disappointed so much. Fazekas has been injured and his case is just sad. I don't think he'll ever be consistently healthy and able to show us what he can do for our offense over an extended period. Which is a shame because we might have had a contending team this year maybe even a fringe at large contender if he was healthy. Yes I believe that. And that's in spite of poor coaching. Which is what makes all of this losing so frustrating. One player shouldn't make that much of a difference. That's a coaching issue.

[VUGrad1314]

Wow, a lot of folks are understandably down at the moment, but take a step off that ledge.  We lost a lot between last season and this season, and I went into this season just hoping that we didn't embarrass ourselves each game.  This team has impressed me quite a bit, even with the annoying starts and required fight backs.  I think that Loyola will be top 3 in the MVC again, so it isn't like we just lost to Chicago State at home.  Someone questioned how I can be impressed?  Every time we get kicked in the teeth and could just give up, the team fights back.  It can be extremely demoralizing and used to be common in some of our losses, to get back to a single possession, give up a key 3/basket, and then just let the game slide back to a double digit loss.  Whether it is because of unscripted or scripted plays, I don't care...they fight back.  In prior years, I would question our team's cojones when they would get down, and just get blown out after that point.  This team cares, has a fight to it, and makes each game exciting, for good and for bad.  Yes, I yelled out at Sackey after that bone-headed pass to Krutwig, which should have been so easy to drop to Kiser to take the lead.  Yes, my wife had to take the kids out of the room at that moment .  However, this team walked me back, and gave me belief that we will solve these close games in the very near future, and all without two of our best players in at crunch time (JFL and Fazekas).

I want to be optimistic like you in this situation... But I just can't do it... This crap just keeps beating me down and I need a tangible reason to believe again.. I don't trust Lottich to provide that for me... I hope he proves me wrong... Look at the numbers I posted earlier in the thread. They speak for themselves. And loudly at that. He doesn't have a track record that gives anyone any reason to believe anything will change for the better because it's the same issues every single game. It's like he doesn't learn and he doesn't progress and he doesn't get better.

[wh]

Leek shot over 36% as a freshman and over 31% as a sophomore. He will find that range again.

He hasn't found his range even once in 13 games. This team can't afford to give away any more possessions waiting for Mileek to find something he hasn't had since last February. Mileek has made some progress, but he's still a project with a long way to go. For instance, if Jubril Adekoya was on this team, Mileek would be getting mop-up minutes. The same holds true for Jon Kiser. Neither one is going to help win games at this level, and I doubt either one would start for any other MVC team.  There's a reason no one recruited these guys out of high school.

[VUGrad1314]

Here's the press conference if anyone cares.

Some takeaways: Criticizes our work down the stretch Doesn't address the slow start hardly at all or the 5+ minute scoring drought in the second half. Simply said he's looking of "A three" at the end but again no mention of trying to get Siggy (our "three point specialist that we supposedly put in for this purpose) a look. From this I don't expect anything to get better because he's not addressing the root of the problem. Fourth year as a coach Third year in the MVC and the man still doesn't get it. AGAIN uses youth as an excuse "We made some mistakes that we're going to learn from." I wait with bated breath. Is asked "What's it going to take to get over the hump?" and COMPLETELY DUCKS AND DEFLECTS THE QUESTION by referencing Loyola's pedigree and simply saying "We've just gotta find a way and I think we will." Ugh. Disgustingly uninspiring. Reminds me of a politician. No true answer in his answers. Always has a plan but no specifics to share because in reality he doesn't have a plan but he can't say that or everyone will know he's incompetent. Matt Lottich might be able to recruit good players but he certainly can't motivate a fanbase or motivate a team to play a full 40 minutes apparently.

Listen to Nick Robinson from about two thirds into the press conference. Hits the nail COMPLETELY ON THE HEAD. Addresses the issues we all see. "We have fight but the next step for us is to get to the point where we don't need to show that we have fight." "We keep digging these holes that's consistent but if we can fight back we can hold a lead so that's our next step." "Once again our second half was the better half and we just need to come out with better energy in the first half." "Our problem was a lack of energy at the start"  "everyone from the starting five to the last man on the bench needs to look in the mirror and ask what can we do to make us better in that first 20 or the first few minutes that's when we keep digging holes and we've proven we can get out of holes but we need to stop digging holes." Maybe we should save some money and make him a player coach? He understands this team's issues better than Lottich does and that's scary because he's only playing his first season and his second year in the program. Please don't leave as a grad transfer Nick. You're a leader and we need you badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_t5T-zaK2g&feature=youtu.be

[nkvu]

Clay continues to impress as a freshman. I think he could have Rowdy kind of upside.  JFL  has to make adjustments now that MVC teams have seen what he can do and have schemed ways to stop him. Seemed like they planted a player in his favorite driving lanes and had a player steering him into the stationary player to get the charging call. And sure, maybe a couple of calls were questionable but it shouldn't take a whole game to figure out what they were trying to do. Posting him up towards the end helped him avoid this, but it came much too late. As for Sackey, we are asking a lot of a second year player to be the primary point guard. In a perfect world he would have a senior to learn from but unfortunately he is it. How well we do will largely depend on how well he can run the team this year. So far I'm afraid it's been too much for him. Oh, and by the way, it would be nice if our fives could step out and hit a three, but so far they have shown no ability to do that, and their attempt s have only have the effect of turnovers. Our players have got to recognize who has the hot hand and particularly in crunch time, work to get the the ball to him in a place where he can get a decent shot. This clawing back in to the game only to come up short is already getting old.

[bbtds]

We'd better go down and kick Evansville's butt this weekend... Get mad and get ready to play and let's win ourselves a road game.

Probably not smart to dress up like a pregnant cheerleader.  Maybe like a Title IX investigator?

[bbtds]

If/when Ryan returns and assuming he's in game shape when he does, Valpo will be instantly better.. Close losses will become close wins.  Bottom 6 will become top 4, maybe better.  Book it.

Unfortunately we are still waiting for something that may never totally happen.

[justducky]

He hasn't found his range even once in 13 games. This team can't afford to give away any more possessions waiting for Mileek to find something he hasn't had since last February.

He is now 6 of 30 for a painful 20%. Even Buggs stayed above that number!  Krikke and Freese-Villian both sit dead on 25%. My point being that our 3 stretch forward, stretch centers need to hit some outside shots to keep the driving lanes open for penetration. That and not posting up is how this offense is designed.

[wh]

Clay continues to impress as a freshman. I think he could have Rowdy kind of upside.  JFL  has to make adjustments now that MVC teams have seen what he can do and have schemed ways to stop him. Seemed like they planted a player in his favorite driving lanes and had a player steering him into the stationary player to get the charging call. And sure, maybe a couple of calls were questionable but it shouldn't take a whole game to figure out what they were trying to do. Posting him up towards the end helped him avoid this, but it came much too late. As for Sackey, we are asking a lot of a second year player to be the primary point guard. In a perfect world he would have a senior to learn from but unfortunately he is it. How well we do will largely depend on how well he can run the team this year. So far I'm afraid it's been too much for him. Oh, and by the way, it would be nice if our fives could step out and hit a three, but so far they have shown no ability to do that, and their attempt s have only have the effect of turnovers. Our players have got to recognize who has the hot hand and particularly in crunch time, work to get the the ball to him in a place where he can get a decent shot. This clawing back in to the game only to come up short is already getting old.

Nice post. The only thing I might say a little differently is I think it's the coach's job to make adjustments when the opposing defense has his star player bottled up. That said, when your Star player is being doubled, it's up to his teammates to make them pay. Mileek didn't, Kiser didn't, and Daniel certainly didn't, Eron didn't, Krikke didn't, etc.

[oklahomamick]

The fighting back and not rolling over praise that this team receives is granted and old.

Some may say gritty.

To me I think it's just points in garbage time.  No different then when a football team is down by two scores and they go down the field and score against a prevent defense with little time left.   

[elephtheria47]

Mrs. Elephtheria47 and myself walked out after the game again talking about the missed opportunities to win the game. The team fought back, and I will again say that there is a lot of young talent on the team but we are missing the senior/older leadership. Fazekas has been injured and as great of a person Kiser is, he is limited on the basketball court. Once some of the bigs can beef up and the frosh/soph get some more experience, there will be something there. In the meantime, I hope Lottich will keep improving but after the 4th year I think we can all see he needs to upgrade his staff in x's and o's. I thought the two quick whistles on Sackey in the 1st half really put us behind, and then Gordon got injured too, and after that we were playing catchup. Robinson was on fire, we needed to find a way to get him more shots but we didn't.

Positives: the crowd, the pep band (can we just get them for every game?), Clay, Robinson, the fight to come back
Negatives: the refs (hate to say it, but the main ref was horrible), the boneheaded plays down the stretch, interior defense, the oooing and aahing of a $25 kelsey's giftcard during a time out late in the game, sackey taking the final shot.

[NativeCheesehead]

Morning After Thoughts:

I do think we need to recognize the tough situation Lottich is in regarding end of game scenarios. (Granted, the team's constant slow starts get them there, but I digress.) By all indications, Sackey and Kiser are true Valpo guys through and through. They work their tails off in practice, they set a great example for the community, and their faith shines through.  When they do all that, it's tough to make a public statement that you don't trust them by taking them off the floor in crunch time.

That being said, late game situations have plagued Lottich's tenure almost as much as the first ten minutes. I half expected Bakari to emerge from the locker room to fire up the last three. Even the end of the Toledo game was not coherent, the shot just happened to go in. In year four this shouldn't still be a thing. We all knew Lottich would have to grow on the job a bit, but his flaws keep putting this team in bad positions. His recruiting has improved, but we're at best a mid tier MVC team unless he grows as a coach.

It's not impossible. Scott's first couple of years (post sanctions) at Baylor he had some talent but we being badly out coached most nights in the Big 12. He's evolved and learned, and his success is the result. Lottich may be one of those coaches who needs a few more years as an assistant and a second go round to find consistent success. But what I know is when we trail our conference mates in almost every conceivable way off the court (facilities, etc) the on court product has to be better to keep this program from stagnating for the next decade.

[SanityLost17]

1. Sackey -- I don't care that he is just a sophomore.  I care that he seems to be getting worse as the season progresses and looks worse now than he did to start conference play as a freshman.  BAD does not describe what he was last night.  What the heck is going on?  It is like he has completely lost his feel for the game.   Those 2 turnovers he had in the last 5 minutes were HORRIBLE. 

2. Flops --  On 3 different occasions Loyola players were falling down before the contact came.  The last one on JFL being the worst and completely changed the game. Not only would that have been a technical foul on them for it being at least their 2nd time doing it, but JFL would have never fouled out of the game.   The charge calls in this game were bad and I am about as an objective fan of refs you are ever going to find.

3. Our Defense --   I sat in the stands tallying the number of times we were beat the hoop 1 on 1 and I stopped counting at 12 and there was lots of game left.   JFL alone got beat off the dribble 4 times and got all the way to the basket or was able to kick to an open guy.   WTF defensive strategy we running?  It looked like we were allowing them to go to their off hand ON PURPOSE, but not like to the side, like all the way to the basket. 

4. SLOPPY TURNOVERS --  Good god some of our turnovers are mind boggling.   The timing of these plays make a person want to choke somebody.   I know we are young and you are going to have some turnovers and sloppy play because of it, but the high level of ineptitude on some of the unforced turnovers last night made me want to leave the building.   Like, JV high school type stuff.

5.  Kiser getting called for a foul for boxing out on a play where the ball bounced really high off the rim.   I mean, he just boxed out throughout the duration of the play.  Worst foul calls in the history of foul calls and they did get 2 free throws out of it in a close game, so it mattered.

6.  Mileek gets a miss match under the basket against a guy half his height (bad Loyola switch) and he proceeds to chuck the ball up awkwardly and quickly instead of just turning and going up strong through the guy for what probably would have been 2 points and a foul.  He of course missed the shot and I think that was with 5 minutes or so to go.       


So, that is why we lost.   Clay and Robinson came to play.   I even thought Mileek played pretty well apart from his 3 point shooting and #6 on my list.   I have not reached an opinion if he should stop shooting or not.  I mean, part of me says what is the point of having a 6'8" center if he can't step out and hit one from time to time?  but at the same time he is hitting 20%....soooo, yeah.   

[Just Sayin]

Clay continues to impress as a freshman. I think he could have Rowdy kind of upside.  JFL  has to make adjustments now that MVC teams have seen what he can do and have schemed ways to stop him. Seemed like they planted a player in his favorite driving lanes and had a player steering him into the stationary player to get the charging call. And sure, maybe a couple of calls were questionable but it shouldn't take a whole game to figure out what they were trying to do. Posting him up towards the end helped him avoid this, but it came much too late. As for Sackey, we are asking a lot of a second year player to be the primary point guard. In a perfect world he would have a senior to learn from but unfortunately he is it. How well we do will largely depend on how well he can run the team this year. So far I'm afraid it's been too much for him. Oh, and by the way, it would be nice if our fives could step out and hit a three, but so far they have shown no ability to do that, and their attempt s have only have the effect of turnovers. Our players have got to recognize who has the hot hand and particularly in crunch time, work to get the the ball to him in a place where he can get a decent shot. This clawing back in to the game only to come up short is already getting old.

MVC should give a new award category. Only one we seem to be best at:


Clawing Back Into The Game Award Only To Lose By A Hair
1. Valpo

[Just Sayin]

Morning After Thoughts: I do think we need to recognize the tough situation Lottich is in regarding end of game scenarios. (Granted, the team's constant slow starts get them there, but I digress.) By all indications, Sackey and Kiser are true Valpo guys through and through. They work their tails off in practice, they set a great example for the community, and their faith shines through.  When they do all that, it's tough to make a public statement that you don't trust them by taking them off the floor in crunch time. That being said, late game situations have plagued Lottich's tenure almost as much as the first ten minutes. I half expected Bakari to emerge from the locker room to fire up the last three. Even the end of the Toledo game was not coherent, the shot just happened to go in. In year four this shouldn't still be a thing. We all knew Lottich would have to grow on the job a bit, but his flaws keep putting this team in bad positions. His recruiting has improved, but we're at best a mid tier MVC team unless he grows as a coach. It's not impossible. Scott's first couple of years (post sanctions) at Baylor he had some talent but we being badly out coached most nights in the Big 12. He's evolved and learned, and his success is the result. Lottich may be one of those coaches who needs a few more years as an assistant and a second go round to find consistent success. But what I know is when we trail our conference mates in almost every conceivable way off the court (facilities, etc) the on court product has to be better to keep this program from stagnating for the next decade.

Yeah, these guys are great and they work hard and show their faith so let's let them take the shots they have proved not to be successful at making. We owe them that. 

EDIT: You don't have to take them off of the floor. Just draw up a play where they do what they do best depending on what is needed. When you need a three, Sackey's job, IF he gets his hands on the ball, (his strength is assists) is to get it to the Plan A player or Plan B player or Plan C player who is one of our best three 3-pt shooters. If you need a two to tie, use Milleek in the best way possible as a plan A inside shot or Plan B (?) looking to his strengths. But telling everyone to take the open look during crunch time is stupid. Sackey will want to take that shot when he shouldn't. It's natural to want to be the hero. Can't blame him. But why does the coach allow this to happen over and over?

[Just Sayin]

Top 3-point Shooters in Conference (Minimum of 40% minutes played and 2 shots per game to qualify)
Qualifying List shows only 38 Players

3-Pt %
1. Trae Berhow Northern Iowa 50.9
2.  Isaiah Brown Northern Iowa 48.5
6. Donavon Clay 42.9
7. Eron Gordon 42.9
23. Nick Robinson 36.1
25. Javon Freemon-Liberty 34.5
36. Daniel Sackey  25.0
38. Mileek McMillan 20.0

Play the odds during crunch time. Draw up a play or two so that the best 3-pt shooters during crunch time are the ONLY ones to be shooting if we need a 3.

Which Valpo players shot 3's near the end of the Loyola game? Where do they rank? Which Valpo player took the final shot? This ain't rocket science coach.

Edit Not having listened to Todd's postgame interview with Luke Gore, I  was unaware of the their game plan. Coach Lottich did draw up a 2-option play so the ball could get into the hands of our good 3-pt. shooters but Loyola blew up the play and Sackey was forced to take the 3. My apologies to the coaching staff.

[vu72]

5.  Kiser getting called for a foul for boxing out on a play where the ball bounced really high off the rim.   I mean, he just boxed out throughout the duration of the play.  Worst foul calls in the history of foul calls and they did get 2 free throws out of it in a close game, so it mattered.

Agree.  There also was another phantom call against John.  I thought Mileek played very well against the top center in the League.  The bottom line was that Matt was out-coached. 

[oklahomamick]

A fan on the Loyola forum mentioned how bad of a call it was against Kiser.

[wh]

Apparently, no one listened to Todd's postgame interview with Luke Gore, where Todd asked Luke about that last play. They drew up 2 options. The first was designed to set up Eron for a corner 3 (I forget the second), but Loyola blew up the play and Daniel was forced to take the 3. The way he explained it sounded perfectly logical to me, it just didn't go as planned. Just like the play Bryce designed to set up AP to take the final shot against Maryland in the NCAA tournament blew up and KC was forced try to throw up a crazy, off-balance 3 at the buzzer. Decisions are split-second in situations like that, and they fail far more often than they succeed, especially when the other team knows all they have to do is guard the 3-point line, and so they place all 5 defenders at the arc. Judging from some of these hypercritical, over-reactionary comments about our coaching, it appears to me that we've got too many posters that stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Just Sayin]

Apparently, no one listened to Todd's postgame interview with Luke Gore, where Todd asked Luke about that last play. They drew up 2 options. The first was designed to set up Eron for a corner 3 (I forget the second), but Loyola blew up the play and Daniel was forced to take the 3. The way he explained it sounded perfectly logical to me, it just didn't go as planned. Just like the play Bryce designed to set up AP to take the final shot against Maryland in the NCAA tournament blew up and KC was forced try to throw up a crazy, off-balance 3 at the buzzer. Decisions are split-second in situations like that, and they fail far more often than they succeed, especially when the other team knows all they have to do is guard the 3-point line, and so they place all 5 defenders at the arc. Judging from some of these hypercritical, over-reactionary comments about our coaching, it appears to me that we've got too many posters that stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Fair enough point made on last play. I did not listen to Todd's postgame interview.

Edit Not having listened to Todd's postgame interview with Luke Gore, I  was unaware of the their game plan. Coach Lottich did draw up a 2-option play so the ball could get into the hands of our good 3-pt. shooters but Loyola blew up the play and Sackey was forced to take the 3. My apologies to the coaching staff.

[a3uge]

Apparently, no one listened to Todd's postgame interview with Luke Gore, where Todd asked Luke about that last play. They drew up 2 options. The first was designed to set up Eron for a corner 3 (I forget the second), but Loyola blew up the play and Daniel was forced to take the 3. The way he explained it sounded perfectly logical to me, it just didn't go as planned. Just like the play Bryce designed to set up AP to take the final shot against Maryland in the NCAA tournament blew up and KC was forced try to throw up a crazy, off-balance 3 at the buzzer. Decisions are split-second in situations like that, and they fail far more often than they succeed, especially when the other team knows all they have to do is guard the 3-point line, and so they place all 5 defenders at the arc. Judging from some of these hypercritical, over-reactionary comments about our coaching, it appears to me that we've got too many posters that stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Keith Carter was fouled

[NativeCheesehead]

In a vacuum, the final play was well defended. But the early game and last minute coaching has been a trend for quite some time. Last night was yet another chapter.