Valpo hosts UNI Game Thread, Wed., Feb. 5, 2020, 7:00p CT

[valpo84]

At about 14 mins 2d half, after a run to cut to 10, we had three straight good defensive possessions and a chance to cut the lead down to around 4-5.  We botched shots and shot selection. And, even after that the D continued to provide opportunities. 3 for 23 from 3.  I don't know how you can be that bad. (and that wasn't our first horrible, terrible, no good shooting night from 3).  I said it last year, and I said it this year.  This is not a good shooting club.  There are not natural shooters on this team, except Ryan. And, Ryan has problems squaring his body on a consistent basis.  McMillan should be benched every time he clangs a 3.  He needs to play PF and stay in the box areas and set picks.  It was frustrating and all you anti-Matters, he tried everything last night except come off the bench and shoot for the team.  He even went Rockets-small and that couldn't get buckets.  There was plenty of motion, but the players continue to not pass quick enough, be ready to shoot when they get the ball in rhythm. 

Positives -- defense held them down and gave chances, but the PLAYERS have to start converting.  Matt gets 1 more year, but the incoming players better be shooters (Jacob and Edwards).  Words for calm today -- Clay is still a frosh, JFL still a soph, Krikke is a frosh, Jacob and Edwards are coming.  BTW, I walked out of the board last night because of all the triggers you all were posting. 

[vuny98]

Going 3-23 from 3pt land and 16-57 FG can't be all on the coach.  The shots were there.  The plays were drawn up.  The bottom line is the ball needs to go through the net and that didn't happen. Kiser, Krikke 0 pts. Sackey 1 pt. McMillan 3 pts. Clay 4 pts. Each one of those players scores 1 bucket and we may be having a different conversation this morning.

Thats what makes this argument hard for me... I do think there is something with the coaching that is an issue with these slow starts. JFL not taking shots in the first half while the team is dying out there is an example of that. BUT with that being said, missed layups, sets that result in wide open threes, ball movement that gets the ball to the open mans hands shows there is some good coaching and the players just are not finishing. Made shots open up the floor and force the defense to adjust.

[oklahomamick]

We have heard just about every excuse from the coach and the few remaining supporters.

I want to address one of the many excuses, "we are in a much tougher conference."

Yes, but those HL championship team we had would definitely compete and possibly win it all in the mvc. 

The last 3 years of valpo mvc teams would finish middle of the pack in a bad HL. 

#truth

[VUGrad1314]

Look I'm a huge Lottich skeptic trying REALLY HARD to see positives in this era but these Valpo teams would finish no lower than third in the current HL and you know that is true. You get no argument that Bryce fielded some teams (particularly in the Peters era) that would have competed and maybe even won the MVC but there is no way any of these Valpo MVC teams under Lottich would finish any worse than third in the HL and you can book that. It would be Wright State NKU and us fighting it out for the title every year. The tougher conference argument carries a lot of water. When is the last time we played against a team even remotely the caliber of UNI or 2018 Loyola that wasn't Butler?  The third highest team in the HL in the NET is still lower than the 9th lowest MVC team and more than 50 SPOTS lower than the 8th lowest MVC team. And they get the benefit of pounding on the bottom of the HL while these MVC teams have to play each other and take more losses. The NET rewards winning first and foremost and yet the third highest HL team is lower than the 9th MVC team.  Lottich would have been delivering great or at least acceptable results in the HL but it seems to be fairly clear that he is not an MVC caliber coach. Bryce probably is but we don't even know that for sure. I think his last few years at Valpo tell us that he'd probably be fine and honestly as much as I hate to say this and as much as I hate to go running back to the Drews because it means our program isn't ready we truly aren't ready to build a program without the Drews. That is so evidently clear. Our best hope for success seems to be Bryce returning on a mission of mercy to help us contend and bring back fan interest while the department and administration have a few years to get their crap together and make us a true MVC caliber program. With Bryce taking care of the big stuff maybe they can focus on these little details they seem to be having so much trouble doing (like they should have done in the first place but who's keeping score?)

[oklahomamick]

I doubt it but it's a what if scenario. 

Finishing top 3 HL in nothing to brag about. 

I think Bryce won it more times than not.

[VUGrad1314]

That's precisely the point Mick. This is a much better conference. To finish in the top 3 here you have to be pretty good. You don't have to be any good to do that in the current HL. This conference is way tougher. That argument is unassailable. The debate is whether Lottich (who would definitely have done fine in the HL as he showed and as the metrics of the conference show) is an MVC caliber coach. I think we both come out on the same side of that debate though I'm looking for any reason at all to change my opinion. As Tracy Chapman once sang "Give me a reason to stay here (in this relationship ie the Lottich tenure) and I'll turn right back around." But so far we have precious little to go on I'm afraid.

[vuny98]

Honestly, if it wasn't for that abysmal first half, I don't think I'd be upset at all with the loss or even losing by 12 to a REALLY good at large contender in UNI. Got to remember there is a lot of parity in this league. Still only 2 games out of 3rd place with 7 games to go.

In this tough stretch of 3 games, most didn't expect us to win them all.

Now the good news is based on the conference record thus far, never winning or losing two in a row, we are set for a nice victory against Loyola on Sunday on National TV.

[NativeCheesehead]

Not a huge fan of the conference to conference comparisons. Both leagues have changed so much over just the last 5 years. But it does come back to a point I've made many times. Easy call to move to the MVC. But for the Prez to ok the move and not IMMEDIATELY start even the smallest committee or major fundraising for a ARC reno was close to institutional malpractice. We at Vu have often been accused of arrogance by our former conference mates, but the level of arrogance in assuming we could compete in this conference with our lackluster building is a new level.

Honest question. How many of us would be feeling much less frustration at these losses sitting a nice padded seat, actually hearing the PA announcer calling each basket, and walking a few hundred feet to a nice covered parking garage? Losing always sucks, but when almost every aspect of the experience is annoying and uncomfortable before the game even starts, with little hope of that experience improving on the horizon, it is exhausting as a fan.

[oklahomamick]

Maybe that's my point:

We are ok with losing to a really good possibly at large team. 

Shooooot, we would have been pissed in years previous.  No matter which league, us as a fan base would have been disappointed and upset if we lost to anyone.  Plus our previous teams wouldn't be losing to this uni team.  At least not in the manner we did.

But now it's ok to lose to good teams.  Didn't used to be.   

[GoldenCrusader87]

Wasn't it Einstein who is credited for saying the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results?

How long will we buy this whole progressing nicely and they're young guys   Narrative?

At what point do we say our expectations are higher than this? As others have pointed out, this is not the same MVC as it was a few years ago with Wichita State in it. And this isn't the same HL as the one that saw some really good rivalries Valpo had with butler, Detroit, and later Oakland.

Would we be doing better in the current HL? Who cares. That's the real answer.

That's a moot point, isn't it?

[oklahomamick]

I only asked the question to put in perspective where this team is. 

[valpo84]

What I am concerned about in evaluating Matt and our move to the MVC is the focus others have had on the end of our time in the HL and those historic years before the move to the MVC.

When we moved to the HL there was an adjustment period and things were not smooth those first few years.  Teams need to learn how leagues are played (HL was a very guard-orientated league), and where the top teams' talents/strengths are.  You can't compete at the top without knowing what the top looks like night in night out. There is no comparison between the MVC and HL in level of play -- all metrics show this.  The bottom of the HL nearly guarantees 4-6 wins a year (YSU, CSU and lately UWM, Detroit).  The top of the HL when we moved had Butler with additional solid teams in UWGB and Wright State (and a brief spell of Detroit), but the MVC has teams 1-10 that have had good programs over decades with multiple bids and wins in the NCAAs. 

Reality is our first 4 years in the HL were not impressive, but to use a word I have seen on the board -- mediocre, but we were seeing stuttered promise and progress of recruits and transfers-in.

Yr 1 HL 2007-08 tied-4th 9-9 (overall 22-14 with somehow a CBI invite) Lost to Butler 73-65 (A) and 71-68 (H)
Yr 2 HL 2008-09 9th 5-13 (overall 9-22) Lost to Butler 75-62 (H), 59-51 (A)
Yr 3 HL 2009-10 4th 10-8 (overall 15-17) Lost to Butler 84-67 (L), 74-69 (H)
Yr 4 HL 2010-11 4th 12-6 (overall 23-12) Lost at Butler 76-59, won 74-69 (H)
Yr 5 HL 2011-12 Bryce's first year, 1st 14-4 (overall 22-12) Beat Butler 77-71 (A), 71-59 (H), 65-46 (Tourney) lost to Detroit Finals

MVC first 3 years -- 2017-18 6-12 (overall 15-17)
                             2018-19 7-11 (overall 15-18)
                             2019-20  ?? (about .500 9-9, 10-8, 8-10; overall about .500)

Also, what were some of the major points we made during those HL years Butler and AB (After Butler) -- (i) the Valpo drought from first media time out to 8 minute media time out, (ii) can't win against P5s, (iii) can't win the big games on TV (conference or non-conference). 

My point is there are transitional periods.  It is still hard to determine whether Matt is a high-level mid-major coach as his recruiting strategy and coaching strategy have not demonstrated a long enough track record.  His primary recruits JFL, Clay, Jacob, Edwards, Krikke appear to be solid.  Next year is the critical year both in the transitional period and his coaching progress. Continuity of players and coaches is a key ingredient to success in a conference.  The continuity of Homer to Bryce as coaches meant continuity of personnel and Bryce's first year showed the jump in performance.  The next year Butler leaves and we become the top of the conference.  If we had moved the year after Bryce, our MVC record is likely placing us near the top, similar to that first year from AMCU to HL at least overall record and possibly better than 9-9. Because of the inconsistency of rosters and the jump in SOS, it is hard to understand where we should be now and where we should have been.  But, the lack of individual success of the transfers from last year also tends to show maybe how good Matt did to get that team to compete last year.  Moreover, the D continues to improve as they play together and develop chemistry. 

After a 0-7 start against Butler, we then reeled off 4 in a row.  But think how big a mental hump that was.  Think about the nationally televised game where they hit the shot at the buzzer to win.  We knew we were close.  Loyola is that new mental hump (0-6 since the move)(we have at least beat UNI (1-5).  We need to beat Loyola as a benchmark that progress is being made.  But it wasn't until YEAR 4 of the HL transition that we finally beat Butler and in the 2d matchup of the season at home. 

We were spoiled by those BDrew years because it seemed easy in the HL, but there was a building project that took 4-5 years to establish that high level.   One of the worst things that has happened is BDREW being let go at Vandy because his shadow now projects on the ARC and Matt. That is unfair to Matt and the players.  It's tough enough to follow a legend, ask Gene Bartow.   

[oklahomamick]

I would kill for a 4th place finish.  Also everyone knew hommer was only a couple years away from handing it to Bryce.  Once Bryce was ready, 1st palace in his first year.  Lottich didn't get the opportunity to be an assistant or 2nd assistant as Bryce did for many years. 

[usc4valpo]

I don't think Valpo as a whole is committed to competing in the Valley. They are a leech in this conference in pretty much all sports. The university needs to up the ante.

[vu72]

I don't think Valpo as a whole is committed to competing in the Valley. They are a leech in this conference in pretty much all sports. The university needs to up the ante.

Now that is pretty funny. A leech?  Try Evansville who hasn't been in the Valley for 3 years, but 23 years if I'm not mistaken.  Their men's team is 0-11 and their women's team?? 0-10.  Now there is commitment.

[usc4valpo]

72 - how did Valpo generally do in all Valley sports? It was a pathetic result.  It's nice to be invited to the party, but it d be nice to contribute and participate and make the party better. I agree Evansville sucks this year, but give them credit for beating Kentucky.

[vu72]

72 - how did Valpo generally do in all Valley sports? It was a pathetic result.  It's nice to be invited to the party, but it d be nice to contribute and participate and make the party better. I agree Evansville sucks this year, but give them credit for beating Kentucky.

. 

Not sure I would call it pathetic. The fall sports we didn't finish last in any of them.  Volleyball finished 5th out of 10.  Evansville was worse than we are in all sports so far--Men's and Women's soccer (Men's were 0-10) Volleyball and now both basketball teams.  Yes, last year sucked but we are growing into the league.  As I said earlier, a school like Evansville has no excuses.  I do believe that across the board our teams are getting better.  To be sure, not as fast as any of us would like.

[usc4valpo]

I just hope we expect more than being committed to mediocrity. Valpo can be at the same level as UNI  if there is true commitment. I don't see it with the current infrastructure.

[valpotx]

We are being more competitive in all sports.  We got 5th in Volleyball, 5th in Men's Soccer, and 5th in Women's Soccer.  I believe that our Men's CC finished 5th, as well, but Women's was 9th?