Valpo at Drake Game Thread, Wednesday, Feb. 19 – 7 p.m. CT (ESPN+)

[valpopal]

So you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"

You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."

You've invented a "fact" to support a supposition on your part which backs a narrative on your part. You're free to have that opinion but at least express it as so instead of concluding it is so. Had your opinion been expressed as such, I wouldn't have said anything. However you didn't present it as opinion.

You can ignore the facts if you want or disagree with the conclusion based upon them, but they are not "invented." As I cited, they are visible in the replays of the games and press conferences for all to see, and they establish a pattern, which would be recognized as credible evidence not merely opinion. When a meteorologist observes the wind patterns or movement of a storm front and says it will rain tomorrow, he is not just offering an opinion, he is doing so based upon a pattern of evidence. Even if it does not rain the next day, his statement was based upon facts rather than just an opinion. 

[valpo64]

If one is actually saying that one of the reasons that we have not been more successful or won more games this year is because of Coach L's lack of complaining about the refs calls and getting more worked up on the sidelines, I think you better get a life.  I have never heard of a more ridiculous statement in my life.  Come on man, chill out, relax and watch this young , inexperienced team respond to Coach's  leadership and improve this year as we also look forward to a more  successful, fun season next year.  This season has been a very highly competitive season in the MVC.  Look at how closely the teams are bunched, other than IL St and EU.  And I believe those 2 bottom feeders will pull a surprise or 2 before this year ends. I don't know about the rest of you on this board, but I am sick and tired of hearing the ongoing blame game on Coach L for every little thing that goes wrong this year, whether we win or lose. It takes very little intellect to be a constant critic of someone or something...it is too easy to be negative.   I am not saying that Lottich does not make mistakes, and he too has had some bad games.  But seriously folks, some of the things being said are uncalled for, especially on a continuing basis.  It is getting old!

[GoldenCrusader87]

What a world it would be if I could get paid well into the six figures and continually perform mediocre and have others support me relentlessly lol. That's not real life for the majority of people in a results-driven, competitive, business-oriented world.

[NativeCheesehead]

"Come on man, chill out, relax and watch this young , inexperienced team respond to Coach's  leadership and improve this year as we also look forward to a more  successful, fun season next year."

We've been hearing this for three years.

[vok22]

What a world it would be if I could get paid well into the six figures and continually perform mediocre and have others support me relentlessly lol. That's not real life for the majority of people in a results-driven, competitive, business-oriented world.

I really hope you aren't serious. He won the conference in his first year as a coach, he has a career winning record, led the transition to a much more competitive conference, and has consistently raised our win total each year in the conference. I see definite improvement and think the next two season should be the the judge, whether they turn out well for him or not. Not even a complete four seasons, including a conference championship, is hardly enough so conclude "consistent mediocrity"

[valpopal]

If one is actually saying that one of the reasons that we have not been more successful or won more games this year is because of Coach L's lack of complaining about the refs calls and getting more worked up on the sidelines, I think you better get a life.  I have never heard of a more ridiculous statement in my life.

If a couple of calls had gone the other way, the team might have won another game or two, including the recent Loyola game and this Drake game where JFL and Mileek were forced out of playing in the overtime because of bad calls, and Valpo would not be in danger of playing Thursday night. So, yes, we might have won more games and been more successful. I say this as a fan who has always supported Lottich and wants him to do well, but who has seen his relationship with refs as one weakness throughout his tenure.

[vu72]

If a couple of calls had gone the other way, the team might have won another game or two, including the recent Loyola game and this Drake game where JFL and Mileek were forced out of playing in the overtime because of bad calls,

Exactly.  I miss the part where Matt made the calls though.

[truth219]

Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.

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[oklahomamick]

How you say that?  I thought this staff was good at recruiting and we had the talent. 

[truth219]

We have 2 stars then it falls off fast. Fazekas and McMillan can shoot sometimes but thats all they are good at. Seriously average defenders. Gordon and Robinson...what are they consistently good at.

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[oklahomamick]

agreed.  And would add this too, Much more talent on those HL teams that we had.  Not only were those teams more talented than the last 3 years at Valpo, but they were so much more talented than any of the competition in the HL.  We recruited so much better than the rest of the HL.  We got MVC players and played in the HL. 

I remember several arguments that the HL 1st and 2nd team should just be Valpo.  We had guys coming off the bench that would be stars at the other HL schools. 

[FieldGoodie05]

Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.

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It's a legitimate concern.  I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich.

P.S.  Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing?  I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!

[truth219]

How many players have sacked on lottich....

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[FieldGoodie05]

Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

It's a legitimate concern.  I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich.

P.S.  Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing?  I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!

Is it conceivable that a large part of our first half slumps begin with no floor General?  I mean that certainly isn't all of it, but I'm sure some are wishing Micah was still around to pickup the slack.

[truth219]

Had Bryce Drews last team at Valpo been on the MVC, I bet they would have cracked the top 25. I know people hate looking back, but that was a fun time to be a fan. Bryce was such a icon in the community. I miss him

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[oklahomamick]

Well said Truth.  Several of those teams would have been sniffing top 25

[truth219]

Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

It's a legitimate concern.  I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich.

P.S.  Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing?  I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!

Is it conceivable that a large part of our first half slumps begin with no floor General?  I mean that certainly isn't all of it, but I'm sure some are wishing Micah was still around to pickup the slack.

Correct we don't have a floor General, a post presence, or anyone super athletic ie shame hammik

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[GoldenCrusader87]

And if we don't have any of those things (floor general, etc.) at what point is that not just on the players but the one who is lauded for recruiting them? Take away Matt's first year with Peters & Co. - aka Bryce's players - and he DOES NOT have a winning record. 44-49 or something like that. 24 of his wins have been during the Peters era. And, how many of those wins are non-conference?....

Consider this:

16/17 = 24-9 & 14-4 in conference.
17/19 = 15-17 & 6-12 in conference.
18/19 = 15-18 & 7-11 in conference.
19/20 = 14-14 & 7-8 in conference (so far).

Total conference wins in (4) seasons to date = 34.
Total conference wins in (3) seasons to date in MVC = 20.
Total losses in (3) seasons to date in MVC = 31.
Total winning seasons in (4) seasons to date = 1 (with Peters & Bryce's Recruits)

[JD24]

So you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"

You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."

You've invented a "fact" to support a supposition on your part which backs a narrative on your part. You're free to have that opinion but at least express it as so instead of concluding it is so. Had your opinion been expressed as such, I wouldn't have said anything. However you didn't present it as opinion.

You can ignore the facts if you want or disagree with the conclusion based upon them, but they are not "invented." As I cited, they are visible in the replays of the games and press conferences for all to see, and they establish a pattern, which would be recognized as credible evidence not merely opinion. When a meteorologist observes the wind patterns or movement of a storm front and says it will rain tomorrow, he is not just offering an opinion, he is doing so based upon a pattern of evidence. Even if it does not rain the next day, his statement was based upon facts rather than just an opinion.

There's no facts here. You've somehow become the facial recognition guru of the board but it's strictly opinion.

[JD24]

Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

I think Clay has a chance to be better than JFL but you're overall point is spot on. I think the board overrates the roster by a fair amount.

[valpopal]

So you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"

You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."

You've invented a "fact" to support a supposition on your part which backs a narrative on your part. You're free to have that opinion but at least express it as so instead of concluding it is so. Had your opinion been expressed as such, I wouldn't have said anything. However you didn't present it as opinion.

You can ignore the facts if you want or disagree with the conclusion based upon them, but they are not "invented." As I cited, they are visible in the replays of the games and press conferences for all to see, and they establish a pattern, which would be recognized as credible evidence not merely opinion. When a meteorologist observes the wind patterns or movement of a storm front and says it will rain tomorrow, he is not just offering an opinion, he is doing so based upon a pattern of evidence. Even if it does not rain the next day, his statement was based upon facts rather than just an opinion.

There's no facts here. You've somehow become the facial recognition guru of the board but it's strictly opinion.

As I noted, in the postgame press conference after JFL was fouled at Loyola in the final play but no call was made, Javon said there definitely was contact, but Lottich neglected to back his player by saying something as simple and supportive as "that's the way I saw it as well." Instead, Lottich merely said the referees were just doing their job. That is a fact, indisputable, and it has nothing to do with "facial recognition."

[VUGrad1314]

So much I want to respond to here... So here goes... (And yes I know this thread is dated a bit).

If one is actually saying that one of the reasons that we have not been more successful or won more games this year is because of Coach L's lack of complaining about the refs calls and getting more worked up on the sidelines, I think you better get a life.  I have never heard of a more ridiculous statement in my life.  Come on man, chill out, relax and watch this young , inexperienced team respond to Coach's  leadership and improve this year as we also look forward to a more  successful, fun season next year.  This season has been a very highly competitive season in the MVC.  Look at how closely the teams are bunched, other than IL St and EU.  And I believe those 2 bottom feeders will pull a surprise or 2 before this year ends. I don't know about the rest of you on this board, but I am sick and tired of hearing the ongoing blame game on Coach L for every little thing that goes wrong this year, whether we win or lose. It takes very little intellect to be a constant critic of someone or something...it is too easy to be negative.   I am not saying that Lottich does not make mistakes, and he too has had some bad games.  But seriously folks, some of the things being said are uncalled for, especially on a continuing basis.  It is getting old!

Great post! Especially the part about the bottom of the conference pulling some surprises. Surprise #1: Illinois State over Drake pulling us back even!

What a world it would be if I could get paid well into the six figures and continually perform mediocre and have others support me relentlessly lol. That's not real life for the majority of people in a results-driven, competitive, business-oriented world.

I really hope you aren't serious. He won the conference in his first year as a coach, he has a career winning record, led the transition to a much more competitive conference, and has consistently raised our win total each year in the conference. I see definite improvement and think the next two season should be the the judge, whether they turn out well for him or not. Not even a complete four seasons, including a conference championship, is hardly enough so conclude "consistent mediocrity"

Fair point. We are getting better. That is an undeniable fact. Are we getting better fast enough? That remains to be seen but it feels like a lot is riding on these next two games to provide an indication of yes or no.

Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

I disagree. I would add Krikke to that list. And the upcoming class. McMillan has made tremendous strides in his overall game especially this year. I think we're in for a good year from him next year. I think Gordon deserves more PT to show what he can do. Morgan too if for no other reason than he defends really well.

agreed.  And would add this too, Much more talent on those HL teams that we had.  Not only were those teams more talented than the last 3 years at Valpo, but they were so much more talented than any of the competition in the HL.  We recruited so much better than the rest of the HL.  We got MVC players and played in the HL. I remember several arguments that the HL 1st and 2nd team should just be Valpo.  We had guys coming off the bench that would be stars at the other HL schools.

Were those Valpo teams really more talented than this team or were we just shining against weaker competition? I think this statement totally ignores what a step up in competition the MVC is. JFL would have DESTROYED the HL. Clay Krikke and McMillan would be stars in the HL. Sackey Gordon Robinson and Morgan would also be really good players in the HL. Competition matters. We don't have a bunch of sub 300 NET teams to play in conference anymore which is part of the reason we moved up and is a reason for patience (even though I have not always shown it). Let things build and we'll be better for it.

Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

It's a legitimate concern.  I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich. P.S.  Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing?  I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!

Is it conceivable that a large part of our first half slumps begin with no floor General?  I mean that certainly isn't all of it, but I'm sure some are wishing Micah was still around to pickup the slack.

Sackey has played really poorly this year. There is no getting around that. But Micah Bradford despite a stretch of improved play at the end of his last year as I recall was and is no answer to this team's point guard woes. Maybe trying Gordon in that role might be?

Had Bryce Drews last team at Valpo been on the MVC, I bet they would have cracked the top 25. I know people hate looking back, but that was a fun time to be a fan. Bryce was such a icon in the community. I miss him Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

I liked this for the Bryce part. However only the last two HL teams would have been anywhere near competitive in the MVC. And remember that MVC would have included Wichita State (which pretty much makes any comparisons totally irrelevant anyway).

[oklahomamick]

Those teams of Bryce's in the HL beat good out of conference teams not just HL teams. 

[usc4valpo]

Vok24 - totally disagree. The last 3 seasons have been mediocre. There has been improvement, but at the end the record has been around or below the .500 mark. That is the definition of mediocrity and we should want to strive for more than that.

Lottich is not the problem, it is the infrastructure at Valparaiso that is the problem. Valpo basketball has done more for the university than what the university has done for the basketball team. It is past time to pay the pauper.

[Just Sayin]

Vok24 - totally disagree. The last 3 seasons have been mediocre. There has been improvement, but at the end the record has been around or below the .500 mark. That is the definition of mediocrity and we should want to strive for more than that. Lottich is not the problem, it is the infrastructure at Valparaiso that is the problem. Valpo basketball has done more for the university than what the university has done for the basketball team. It is past time to pay the pauper.

Is the piper poor? If so, to pay him would be charity, not what he deserved. Just Sayin