Other schools have problems, too

loschwitz · February 22, 2020, 09:13:56 AM

U of St Thomas cuts full-time MBA program. Nothing stays the same. The popularity of programs rises and falls.

http://tcbmag.com/news/articles/2020/february/st-thomas-cuts-full-time-mba

VUGrad1314 · February 23, 2020, 06:19:49 AM

Oh wow And they're prepping for a move to D1 and have an endowment almost twice the size of Valpo's. Maybe it is (both at St Thomas and here at Valpo) just pruning and reallocation in the name of overall efficiency to make sure that each dollar is spent in the most efficacious way possible.

valpo95 · February 24, 2020, 12:41:56 PM

Many schools are dropping (or considering dropping) their full-time MBA programs. Beyond the top 20 programs or so, most full-time MBA programs lose money after all of the tuition discounts are factored in. Within recent years, Iowa, Wake Forest, Thunderbird, Virginia Tech, Illinois Institute of Technology, and the University of Illinois all have closed their full-time MBA programs, and Wisconsin walked back a planned closure as well. Some schools keep the full-time MBA program because those form the basis of the rankings, especially if they can enroll large numbers of part-time or online students.

David81 · April 14, 2020, 09:03:01 AM

Quote from: valpo95 on February 24, 2020, 12:41:56 PM
Many schools are dropping (or considering dropping) their full-time MBA programs. Beyond the top 20 programs or so, most full-time MBA programs lose money after all of the tuition discounts are factored in. Within recent years, Iowa, Wake Forest, Thunderbird, Virginia Tech, Illinois Institute of Technology, and the University of Illinois all have closed their full-time MBA programs, and Wisconsin walked back a planned closure as well. Some schools keep the full-time MBA program because those form the basis of the rankings, especially if they can enroll large numbers of part-time or online students.

Some of these schools are taking their MBA programs totally distance learning, either fully online or a hybrid approach that blends periodic residencies with online instruction.

I think this is a wave of the future for MBA offerings. In addition to rankings considerations that you mention, many of the top-ranked schools will continue to offer f2f programs because of their location (in major cities), associated in-person networking opportunities, and general prestige factors. But everyone else needs to be thinking differently.

vu84v2 · April 14, 2020, 09:11:33 AM

Quote from: David81 on April 14, 2020, 09:03:01 AM
Quote from: valpo95 on February 24, 2020, 12:41:56 PM
Many schools are dropping (or considering dropping) their full-time MBA programs. Beyond the top 20 programs or so, most full-time MBA programs lose money after all of the tuition discounts are factored in. Within recent years, Iowa, Wake Forest, Thunderbird, Virginia Tech, Illinois Institute of Technology, and the University of Illinois all have closed their full-time MBA programs, and Wisconsin walked back a planned closure as well. Some schools keep the full-time MBA program because those form the basis of the rankings, especially if they can enroll large numbers of part-time or online students.

Some of these schools are taking their MBA programs totally distance learning, either fully online or a hybrid approach that blends periodic residencies with online instruction.

I think this is a wave of the future for MBA offerings. In addition to rankings considerations that you mention, many of the top-ranked schools will continue to offer f2f programs because of their location (in major cities), associated in-person networking opportunities, and general prestige factors. But everyone else needs to be thinking differently.

While there are good points here, remember that there are distinctly programs that have substantially different dynamics. In terms of structure, full-time MBA, evening MBA, online/hybrid MBA and executive MBA are pretty different from one another. Full time MBA has always been problematic in the U.S., except for the very elite schools, because it is difficult to justify the value of paying for and attending school full time in lieu of working (in which case the employer likely pays for part of the tuition).

78crusader · May 19, 2020, 06:19:32 PM

Furman announced today they are cutting baseball and mens' lacrosse.

Paul

valpotx · May 19, 2020, 11:54:51 PM

That sucks. I played with a few guys from Furman during one of my summer seasons during college. They were always pretty decent.

NotBryceDrew · July 08, 2020, 11:57:00 PM

Stanford $27.7 billion endowment, Stanford just cut 11 sports today.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics/

valpotx · July 09, 2020, 01:29:57 AM

Some Olympians lose a place to ply their trade in college, with those cuts.

vu72 · July 09, 2020, 06:49:58 AM

Quote from: NotBryceDrew on July 08, 2020, 11:57:00 PM
Stanford $27.7 billion endowment, Stanford just cut 11 sports today.

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics/

Of the 11 sports being discontinued, six (lightweight rowing, men's rowing, co-ed and women's sailing, squash, synchronized swimming) are not NCAA-sponsored championship sports.
All 11 sports being discontinued are sponsored by less than 22% of the more than 350 Division I institutions, and nine (men's and women's fencing, lightweight rowing, men's rowing, co-ed and women's sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men's volleyball) are sponsored by less than 9%.
There are only two other Division I field hockey and fencing programs on the West Coast, and there are no other lightweight rowing, sailing, squash or synchronized swimming programs on the West Coast.
Many of these sports currently compete without a full complement of scholarships (e.g. wrestling), coaches and resources. After careful analysis, we concluded there was no realistic path to ensuring that they have all of the resources needed to compete at the highest level without hindering our ability to support our other 25 varsity sports.

And I fully expect Valpo to eliminate fencing, light weight rowing and synchronized swimming next!!!!!

David81 · July 09, 2020, 09:50:26 AM

I'm wondering if at some point, the damn bursts and intercollegiate sports are cut left and right, due to ongoing impacts of the pandemic and costs associated with maintaining expensive sports programs.

I think the healthiest alternative would be a big revival of sports at the club level, basically returning them to the status of other important extracurricular activities, at least for non-revenue generating sports.

crusadermoe · July 09, 2020, 01:25:42 PM

I agree with David81.

Even though the sports are obscure, if a school like Stanford doesn't feel like it can carry some "loss leaders", it sure gives a LOT of cover to universities at all levels to start pulling back support for ones that don't generate income. Ivy league sports season cancels give the same cover to schools wanting to avoid the losses this year.

Valpo will be FAR from unique in having MAJOR pressure from faculty and campus to cut their losses and eliminate more sports. Our massive operating losses lead us there faster. Baseball might be in danger due to its long season and long trips. Even basketball might well be forced to play more regional games in a drivable radius. Home and home with a Charlotte might be fun, but that's a bunch of plane fares and COVID risks spent for not much good reason. We hate IPFW and Chicago State games, but it might be our new reality for a couple of years or more. If March Madness cancels again the revenue bucket really dries up.

valpotx · July 11, 2020, 01:22:24 AM

Quote from: crusadermoe on July 09, 2020, 01:25:42 PM
I agree with David81.

Even though the sports are obscure, if a school like Stanford doesn't feel like it can carry some "loss leaders", it sure gives a LOT of cover to universities at all levels to start pulling back support for ones that don't generate income. Ivy league sports season cancels give the same cover to schools wanting to avoid the losses this year.

Valpo will be FAR from unique in having MAJOR pressure from faculty and campus to cut their losses and eliminate more sports. Our massive operating losses lead us there faster. Baseball might be in danger due to its long season and long trips. Even basketball might well be forced to play more regional games in a drivable radius. Home and home with a Charlotte might be fun, but that's a bunch of plane fares and COVID risks spent for not much good reason. We hate IPFW and Chicago State games, but it might be our new reality for a couple of years or more. If March Madness cancels again the revenue bucket really dries up.

With all of the recent investment and current work on the stadium for baseball, I highly doubt that will happen.

vu84v2 · July 11, 2020, 09:46:02 AM

Quote from: valpotx on July 11, 2020, 01:22:24 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on July 09, 2020, 01:25:42 PM
I agree with David81.

Even though the sports are obscure, if a school like Stanford doesn't feel like it can carry some "loss leaders", it sure gives a LOT of cover to universities at all levels to start pulling back support for ones that don't generate income. Ivy league sports season cancels give the same cover to schools wanting to avoid the losses this year.

Valpo will be FAR from unique in having MAJOR pressure from faculty and campus to cut their losses and eliminate more sports. Our massive operating losses lead us there faster. Baseball might be in danger due to its long season and long trips. Even basketball might well be forced to play more regional games in a drivable radius. Home and home with a Charlotte might be fun, but that's a bunch of plane fares and COVID risks spent for not much good reason. We hate IPFW and Chicago State games, but it might be our new reality for a couple of years or more. If March Madness cancels again the revenue bucket really dries up.

With all of the recent investment and current work on the stadium for baseball, I highly doubt that will happen.

While I hope that the university is able to avoid cutting or downsizing any athletic programs, decisions cannot be made based on previous spending. The best decision making only looks forward - what are the future benefits and what are the costs that will be (not have been) incurred to achieve those benefits.

JD24 · July 11, 2020, 11:36:45 AM

Quote from: vu84v2 on July 11, 2020, 09:46:02 AM
Quote from: valpotx on July 11, 2020, 01:22:24 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on July 09, 2020, 01:25:42 PMI agree with David81. Even though the sports are obscure, if a school like Stanford doesn't feel like it can carry some "loss leaders", it sure gives a LOT of cover to universities at all levels to start pulling back support for ones that don't generate income. Ivy league sports season cancels give the same cover to schools wanting to avoid the losses this year. Valpo will be FAR from unique in having MAJOR pressure from faculty and campus to cut their losses and eliminate more sports. Our massive operating losses lead us there faster. Baseball might be in danger due to its long season and long trips. Even basketball might well be forced to play more regional games in a drivable radius. Home and home with a Charlotte might be fun, but that's a bunch of plane fares and COVID risks spent for not much good reason. We hate IPFW and Chicago State games, but it might be our new reality for a couple of years or more. If March Madness cancels again the revenue bucket really dries up.
With all of the recent investment and current work on the stadium for baseball, I highly doubt that will happen.
While I hope that the university is able to avoid cutting or downsizing any athletic programs, decisions cannot be made based on previous spending. The best decision making only looks forward - what are the future benefits and what are the costs that will be (not have been) incurred to achieve those benefits.

Dartmouth just cut the golf programs but, particularly for a school located where it is, has an excellent golf facility. So I agree with the above premise.

crusadermoe · July 11, 2020, 02:29:30 PM

These are sad things to hear. The decisions at Valpo will be particularly tough since they began the pandemic with the 11% budget deficit. However, as we have often talked on the board, the athletics teams' net revenue to the school is not as simple as the direct costs and direct income from each sport. Cutting the football program comes up frequently and we note that the chance to play in college is sometimes the enrollment clincher of a yes for male students. Then each of the brings their net income to the school. Think $25,000 or more per kid in tuition room and board.

The baseball team with its large roster of men is also complex. It looks we have a lot of Calif kids on the roster. I doubt those kids chose VU for the weather or the student scenery. Maybe a niche academic program hooked them but more likely they came to play baseball. So again, drop the sport and you lose the $25,000 per kid. However, baseball travel expense appears far higher than just 4-5 trips over one hotel night each. We have a great baseball tradition, but we better rein in that travel budget fast. The MVC could play a whole baseball or VB "season" in just 2 weekends in neutral St. Louis. Maybe do the two "season" trips, and then a one loss out tournament. Less school would be missed too and you may even more energy and more spectators if fans could focus on 2-3 trips.

valpotx · July 13, 2020, 02:58:39 PM

I just don't see it happening for Baseball. It is a core MVC sport. You pretty much have M & W Basketball, Volleyball, and Baseball. I see other programs getting cut, before we cut a core program from our conference. If we were still in the Mid-Con/Summit League or Horizon League, I would agree with you a bit more.

vu84v2 · July 13, 2020, 03:24:05 PM

Quote from: valpotx on July 13, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
I just don't see it happening for Baseball. It is a core MVC sport. You pretty much have M & W Basketball, Volleyball, and Baseball. I see other programs getting cut, before we cut a core program from our conference. If we were still in the Mid-Con/Summit League or Horizon League, I would agree with you a bit more.

Again, I do not want to see baseball cut...but you have to look at why programs are cut. They are cut to get to a budget reduction number. The cost of golf (as an example) is a small fraction of the cost of baseball.

vu84v2 · July 13, 2020, 05:32:09 PM

Loyola announces that most classes will be remote/online. Excerpt from their announcement...

As COVID-19 infection rates and deaths continue to increase across numerous states, we share the concerns of our faculty, staff, and broader community. Therefore, we have decided that the best plan for the upcoming fall semester is to shift most of our class offerings online. In addition, we have decided to limit in-person courses to those requiring face-to-face interaction. These courses may include labs, experiential learning classes, and research.

We will also provide necessary in-person, on-campus instruction and research opportunities to both domestic and international students. These opportunities will enable them to meet the requirements of their respective degree programs. Our faculty, advisors, and staff will work directly with students to address their academic needs and course schedules.

In the coming days we will provide detail on the specifics of the fall schedule. In particular, deans and chairs will be working this week to complete the schedule of courses.

We expect that many students will join us in the residence halls, using the single-occupancy plan announced previously. We also have begun planning for additional robust, low-density, socially distant programs for our students. These programs will support a different but rich campus experience. We have been planning for this scenario as one option and remain committed to providing a first-class Jesuit, Catholic education and experience to all our students.
--------------------------------------------------------------
My guess is that this will create institutional pressure on other midwestern private universities to follow suit (in order to be legitimate). Those that don't follow what Loyola is doing will have to defend their decision to have face-to-face learning, which is unfortunate since many schools have different situations (comparing Valparaiso to Chicago is just not a fair comparison). I have a little visibility to Valpo's plan and I think that it can work.

vu72 · July 14, 2020, 08:46:14 AM

Quote from: vu84v2 on July 13, 2020, 05:32:09 PM(comparing Valparaiso to Chicago is just not a fair comparison)

I think this hits the nail on the head. Valpo has the advantage of being in a small town and on a very large campus, plus, a much smaller student body. It isn't a stretch to think that every on campus student could have their own room, particularly if Scheele was put back on line. It's apples to oranges to campare Loyola to Valpo or Drake, for example.

crusadermoe · July 14, 2020, 12:32:40 PM

Is the first sentence of Loyola's press release factually correct? I have seen diagrams of the COVID infection rates and death rates. While the infection rates are spiking, they show a continuous downward trend in death rates. Even if they are rising, it would be a very small rise in just a few isolated states that could easily be anecdotal or deaths in a nursing home where a person died of three causes only one of which was COVID-19.

COVID is real, but I am very sick of the drama and the exaggerations.

EddieCabot · July 14, 2020, 01:10:52 PM

Quote from: vu72 on July 14, 2020, 08:46:14 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 13, 2020, 05:32:09 PM(comparing Valparaiso to Chicago is just not a fair comparison)

I think this hits the nail on the head. Valpo has the advantage of being in a small town and on a very large campus, plus, a much smaller student body. It isn't a stretch to think that every on campus student could have their own room, particularly if Scheele was put back on line. It's apples to oranges to campare Loyola to Valpo or Drake, for example.

Thanks to COVID, Valpo's small town setting, small enrollment and excess dorm capacity is finally a competitive advantage!

loschwitz · July 17, 2020, 07:50:45 AM

Meanwhile Illinois Wesleyan continues to make major cuts.

https://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/education/illinois-wesleyan-university-to-eliminate-3-majors/article_ee0cd03f-9348-59e2-9ce8-dcd566d4847a.html

These cuts are in addition to prior elimination of American cultural studies, international business, classical studies, as well as design, technology, and entrepreneurship.

FWalum · July 17, 2020, 09:31:38 AM

As my daughter, currently working the PICU at Children's National Hospital, reminded me earlier this week when I told her the same thing...

Quote from: crusadermoe on July 14, 2020, 12:32:40 PMI have seen diagrams of the COVID infection rates and death rates. While the infection rates are spiking, they show a continuous downward trend in death rates.

...it is expected that the death toll would lag behind the new spike in cases. We also talked about the fact that the Nursing Homes should have a much better handle on their situations after the horrible way things were handled initial and it should be expected that their death rates should hopefully be much lower.

valpo95 · July 28, 2020, 12:07:17 PM

I came across this news article this morninghttps://universitybusiness.com/colleges-universities-surviving-closing-covid-tuition-endowment-enrollment/

The prof put 436 universities into one of four categories based on how they are likely to do under the COVID-19 pandemic. The categories are: thrive, survive, struggle and perish—based on calculated value and vulnerability data. Valpo was in the struggle quadrant, mostly because the average value rating was low. The complete story, as well as a spreadsheet, are available on this blog:

https://www.profgalloway.com/uss-university