Coronavirus

[wh]

Yes, but again...who?  What types of immigrants? There are many people here legally on green cards and work visas, and many of these people bring critical skills that the U.S. lacks (in terms of knowledge and the needed volume of qualified people). There are not Americans who are qualified to fill these jobs (medical and research is a big one, but this is applicable to many other skilled positions). There are people who are on the legal path to citizenship, so what about them? If you decide to "stop immigration", are you going to go find all of these people and deport them?

The lack of clear communication creates chaos (which might be what Trump wants). But good leadership is preventing miscommunication and chaos - especially during a crisis.

Additionally, Trump is the master of getting people to look at the "shiny object". He has gotten a lot of justified criticism for delays in reacting to the crisis (see the previous history of his comments during February and March). He desperately wants to get people beyond just his blindly loyal followers to agree that blame lies elsewhere, so no blame lies with him - but people are not buying that. Thus, he just raises another contentious issue to move people's attention.

I can picture you sitting at home cozied up to the fireplace with not a care in the world. Your paycheck keeps magically appearing in your bank account. You're biggest worry is getting bored over your 6 month "sabbatical."  Kind of like elitist Nancy's biggest concerns are  choosing which gourmet ice cream to choose from her commercial sized freezer in her gated mansion and doing her best to make this recovery as difficult as possible in order to make President Trump look as bad as possible.

Would you like to hear what life's like for a good friend of mine who owns a 3-chair barber shop who is completely broke?  Of course you wouldn't. You would rather talk about immigrants.

[usc4valpo]

vu84v2 - yes there are immigrants providing technical skills, they are also providing technical skills at a cost lower than citizens. This may not sound PC, but corporations exploit this.

[vu84v2]

vu84v2 - yes there are immigrants providing technical skills, they are also providing technical skills at a cost lower than citizens. This may not sound PC, but corporations exploit this.

There are clearly cases in which what you are saying is true, especially when you roll in outsourcing and offshoring. But many companies that I am familiar with pay the same to immigrants and U.S. citizens. They often can't find enough talent or hire the best available person who might be someone from another country. Beyond that, the vast complexities of the global economy often make it impractical to not outsource and offshore.

Look at universities, who employ a lot of immigrants as professors. Why is that? Because there are not many Americans willing to devote the time and effort to get the necessary training (PhD, etc.). But the demand for advanced education is there and universities need to meet the demand - so many people from other countries come here to get a PhD and then get hired as professors.

[vu84v2]

Yes, but again...who?  What types of immigrants? There are many people here legally on green cards and work visas, and many of these people bring critical skills that the U.S. lacks (in terms of knowledge and the needed volume of qualified people). There are not Americans who are qualified to fill these jobs (medical and research is a big one, but this is applicable to many other skilled positions). There are people who are on the legal path to citizenship, so what about them? If you decide to "stop immigration", are you going to go find all of these people and deport them?

The lack of clear communication creates chaos (which might be what Trump wants). But good leadership is preventing miscommunication and chaos - especially during a crisis.

Additionally, Trump is the master of getting people to look at the "shiny object". He has gotten a lot of justified criticism for delays in reacting to the crisis (see the previous history of his comments during February and March). He desperately wants to get people beyond just his blindly loyal followers to agree that blame lies elsewhere, so no blame lies with him - but people are not buying that. Thus, he just raises another contentious issue to move people's attention.

I can picture you sitting at home cozied up to the fireplace with not a care in the world. Your paycheck keeps magically appearing in your bank account. You're biggest worry is getting bored over your 6 month "sabbatical."  Kind of like elitist Nancy's biggest concerns are  choosing which gourmet ice cream to choose from her commercial sized freezer in her gated mansion and doing her best to make this recovery as difficult as possible in order to make President Trump look as bad as possible.

Would you like to hear what life's like for a good friend of mine who owns a 3-chair barber shop who is completely broke?  Of course you wouldn't. You would rather talk about immigrants.

If it makes you happy, I spend more hours working now than I did prior to the crisis. And I did not start the discussion on immigration (you did) - I just feel that I do not want to let your one-sided (and sometimes deranged) views go unabated.

That said, I am 100% more concerned about your friend who owns the barber shop and the many smaller, often independent businesses in this country. Programs the government has implemented are sorely needed to keep as many businesses as possible sustained. And I wish we didn't need these programs...but the data, lack of testing capacity, etc. indicates we can't go very far yet in opening the country. Almost every top economist in this country says that opening too early, in a manner that creates a new outbreak and further shutdowns, makes everything worse economically. You would probably say that the governor of Georgia is right in opening businesses in his state to the degree he announced, and I would say that the data from IHME and elsewhere indicates he is wrong. But I sincerely hope that he (and probably you) are right and I am wrong.

[wh]

https://twitter.com/parscale/status/1252369647338319878?s=20

[FWalum]

I would say that the data from IHME and elsewhere indicates he is wrong.

The data from IHME has been really bad in its modeling here in Indiana. On Monday the 13th IHME issued a new statistical model for Indiana, it showed that Indiana had reached its resource peak on Wednesday April 8th. Since I helped develop the software that some of the larger counties in Indiana use for Vital Records, I tried to explain to the Doctor that sent me the report that the reason for the decline in reporting was probably due to Holy Week and the fact that Indiana had done a VERY poor job of testing outside of Marion County.  The new model excitedly showed new projected deaths for Indiana would be 606 by early August down from their original projection of 1681 deaths. I tried to explain that this new model seemed overly optimistic and that once testing increased in Allen, Lake, St. Joseph and Vanderburgh counties numbers would go up. Yes, just eight days later we have blown through that 606 deaths by August projection and deaths in Indiana now stand at 630 on April 21st. Doing modeling without knowing how the data is being collected is a recipe for inaccuracy. So even Bill Gates can get it wrong sometimes. I don't know about the IHME data from Georgia, I would think that if their data is anything like Indiana I would rely more on local knowledge of the situation. I personally would think this is too early for any extensive reopening of areas where large groups could get together.

[bbtds]

Information on COVID-19 in Porter County by township.

Just in case you were wondering how many cases were in your own town in Porter County, we discovered a website by the Porter County Government that tella you exactly that. (updated daily)
     There are also several informative links available as well, that we have included in this post.
     Find the most current COVID-19 information, updates, guidance and resources along with the practices that the Porter County government has established to reduce the risk of spreading the virus. More information is being added as it becomes available, so please check back often.
     As of April 20th, there are 191 Positive Cases in Porter county. This map breaks it down per township.

https://panoramanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/porter-county-indiana-positive-covid-19-cases-per-township.jpg

Top 6 townships:

Portage  79 positive,  total population 47,085, .16%

Washington  36 positive, total population 4,963,  .73%

Center 27 positive, total population 44,784, .06%

Westchester 14 positive, total population 20,717, .07%

Liberty 11 positive, total population 9,700, .11%

Union 10 positive, total population 9,050, .11%

This info was shared by my relative in Valpo.

EDIT: It was explained to me that the reason that Washington Twp has an usual amount of COVID-19 positive cases is because the Porter County jail sits barely in Washington Twp on the east side of Hwy 49 just south of US 30 by the county fairgrounds. There have been a large amount of COVID-19 cases reported at the jail. I was not familiar with the jail being close to the fairgrounds.

[EddieCabot]

If it makes you happy, I spend more hours working now than I did prior to the crisis. And I did not start the discussion on immigration (you did) - I just feel that I do not want to let your one-sided (and sometimes deranged) views go unabated.

I'm also among those working from home that is putting in 12 hour days to do everything I can to keep my company afloat.  I'm also tired of people asking me if I'm doing home improvement projects or binge-watching Netflix with my "time off".  I'm not taking time off, I'm just working (more) from home.

With that said, I fully respect the concerns of those who can't work from home.  My hope is that when the economy opens that it is done in a responsible manner.  If socially distancing and other precautions aren't followed, I fear we'll be back to another lockdown.  I hope we can get businesses reopened, but I don't think everything will be back to "normal" anytime soon.

[wh]

If it makes you happy, I spend more hours working now than I did prior to the crisis. And I did not start the discussion on immigration (you did) - I just feel that I do not want to let your one-sided (and sometimes deranged) views go unabated.

I'm also among those working from home that is putting in 12 hour days to do everything I can to keep my company afloat.  I'm also tired of people asking me if I'm doing home improvement projects or binge-watching Netflix with my "time off".  I'm not taking time off, I'm just working (more) from home.

With that said, I fully respect the concerns of those who can't work from home.  My hope is that when the economy opens that it is done in a responsible manner.  If socially distancing and other precautions aren't followed, I fear we'll be back to another lockdown.  I hope we can get businesses reopened, but I don't think everything will be back to "normal" anytime soon.

My criticism wasn't directed at people who have gone from working at the job site to working at home. 84-2 has said he's a college instructor. Most college instructors have gone from having the summer off to having the spring and summer off, thus my reference to a 6-month "sabbatical."  I'm not sure what 84-2 could be doing to keep him busier than ever unless he picked up part time jobs at Walmart and Home Depot, but maybe there's more to his story than just teaching. Speaking of which, a nephew of mine and his wife teach at an area high school. Both are now on a 6-month vacation without a care in the world. I don't begrudge them their time off at all. I do begrudge them for their sanctimonious Facebook posts spewing their liberal nonsense about people who are pushing to get the economy up and running are selfish and don't care how many people fall victim to the virus. They should just set the alarm for Sept. and go back to sleep.

[vu84v2]

This is complete B.S. Yes, I am a college professor. And like college professors at Valparaiso and any other university, I still have to teach all of my classes and do all of the associated work (as I should be required to do). All of my instruction has to be converted to online...which takes more time than if I were teaching in the classroom. I have all of my other obligations (the main one is research productivity) - but that is my job. I am not saying that my work is physically demanding or that it is heroic like medical workers, but it is essential that it be done well for the students - and even more for the university. You like Valparaiso University? If professors at Valparaiso don't do their damn best under these circumstances, then students don't get the value that they paid for. They don't get necessary learning and subsequently don't pay tuition (if this extends into the Fall). Then the university closes...forever! Professors at Valparaiso that I have talked with know this and are doing everything they can. It is no different where I teach (also a private university) and thus the situation for myself and professors at my university is the same. So perhaps you might want to know what the F$#% you're talking about before you say that professors are sitting around like they are on some form of sabbatical.

And just to inform you, I am a tenure-track professor. Do you know what you call a tenure-track professor who takes the summer off? Unemployed. Again, I am not at all saying that I have challenges as difficult as a small business owner - but you really need to know what you are talking about when you start making claims about professors.

And my opinion of your nephew and his wife who teach high school (if they are indeed sitting around doing nothing)? They are completely irresponsible and are not fit to be teachers at any level.

[RS]

Another miss step by the President. The VA has just finished a test on hyrochloroquine based on over 300 covid patients taking the drug, It found that the drug has no benefit on keeping you off ventilators and actually 28% died taking the drug compared to 11% who did not take the drug.

[usc4valpo]

OK, a few things...

1. I see his faults, but quit slamming Trump on how this is being handled. This is a chaotic situation and data and information is very fluid. For anyone this is as challenging a situation any person can handle. He has put his foot in his mouth, but the political demands from the Dems is not helping. We need to work together to get thorugh this mess.

2. My wife is a teacher and now unemployed and not on a holiday. Teachers are generally concerned about their students and they are using Zoom and Skype so students can keep up. The 6 month vacation for teachers is the exception rather than the rule, and if teachers are not enabling education and treating it as a vacation, then IMO they are a discredit to the profession. Teachers for the most part are committed to education.

[usc4valpo]

RS - I worked in healthcare, and result like this can happen in clinical studies.  There was hope, and the study was worith the effort and had to be done. No guaranteed solution was proposed.

[vu72]

RS - I worked in healthcare, and result like this can happen in clinical studies.  There was hope, and the study was worith the effort and had to be done. No guaranteed solution was proposed.

True, and the study should have been done.  The fault lies with Trump interjecting his "personal opinion" that this drug was going to be the answer.  He has zero medical or research in his background yet chose to give hope to many and as a result some hoarded the drug to the detriment of those people (arthritis and lupus) who truly need it.  Why can't he let Pence do the numbers update and the doctors do the medical update and leave it at that?  It would serve him best politically and give the doctors a couple of more hours a day to do their job.

[bbtds]

1. I see his faults, but quit slamming Trump on how this is being handled. This is a chaotic situation and data and information is very fluid. For anyone this is as challenging a situation any person can handle. He has put his foot in his mouth, but the political demands from the Dems is not helping. We need to work together to get thorugh this mess.

Do you feel that NY Governor Cuomo has to govern during a chaotic and fluid situation? Cuomo is leading a state in the most covid-19 struck area of the world. Is he putting his foot in his mouth?

[wh]

RS - I worked in healthcare, and result like this can happen in clinical studies.  There was hope, and the study was worith the effort and had to be done. No guaranteed solution was proposed.

True, and the study should have been done. (1) The fault lies with Trump interjecting his "personal opinion" that this drug was going to be the answer.  He has zero medical or research in his background yet chose to give hope to many (2)and as a result some hoarded the drug to the detriment of those people (arthritis and lupus) who truly need it.  (3) Why can't he let Pence do the numbers update and the doctors do the medical update and leave it at that?  It would serve him best politically and give the doctors a couple of more hours a day to do their job.

(1) I recall him pointing to anecdotal evidence and saying "it's worth a try," and "what do we have to lose."  That's a far cry from "this drug is going to be the answer." Also, many doctors actively treating patients with coronavirus have had very positive things to say about it publicly.  There have been a ton of personal testimonials from individuals who were seriously ill who turned the corner after receiving the malaria drug cocktail.  The biggest concern I recall doctors treating patients having is not knowing what dosage to use at what frequency. that kind of thing. 

(2) I don't ever recall hearing that use of the drug for coronavirus kept people with arthritis and lupus from getting it.  I do recall hearing speculation fueled by the Trump-hating media that it could.  To my knowledge, that never materialized or came anywhere close. 

(3) If Trump was not present at these briefings, the media spin would be that he should be leading the effort, that he doesn't care enough about what's happening, that this is far too important to hand down, that states weren't getting what they need because he wasn't personally pressuring anyone to get the job done, that Pence is really the President - Trump is just a figurehead, he's too dumb, or aloof, or prideful to admit that we have a major problem, blah, blah, blah.  I can picture in-the-tank leftist "reporters" like Acosta (supposedly a straight news reporter) posing loaded either/or questions to Pence like "The states aren't getting the ventilators they need.  Would you say President Trump is more to blame because he's totally uninvolved in the process, or you're to blame because you're in over your head?"  The bottom line is if you're in a room filled with adversaries whose mission in life is to destroy you, don't EVER delegate your defense to a subordinate. Trump knows full well that every day he is in a fight for his very survival with a morally corrupt opposition party and their minions in the media, Hollywood, academia, globalists, race baiters, abortion industry, drug runners, illegal aliens, Christian bashers, Israel haters, marxists, communists - I could go on for an hour.   

[vu72]

(2) I don't ever recall hearing that use of the drug for coronavirus kept people with arthritis and lupus from getting it.  I do recall hearing speculation fueled by the Trump-hating media that it could.  To my knowledge, that never materialized or came anywhere close.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/barr-warns-hoarders-of-masks-and-drugs-that-trump-has-touted/ar-BB11I6ZP

Another story from Texas:

AUSTIN, Texas — The Texas State Board of Pharmacy issued an emergency rule limiting certain drugs. These drugs fight malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

"The first thing in the morning, the phone started ringing and emails started coming in," said Allison Benz, executive director/secretary for the Texas State Board of Pharmacy.



Kroger Is Enforcing A 5-item Limit On Certain Items
The board regulates all pharmacies and pharmacists in Texas.

Benz said pharmacies around the state started asking for help because they were flooded with prescriptions they don't see often.

It came the day after President Donald Trump said the drugs may help treat COVID-19.

The prescriptions were for chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, mefloquine and azithromycin. These meds typically are used to treat malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

"These medications, for the most part, are ones you're probably not going to get a prescription even every day, let alone like two or three. They are getting nine, 14, you know, by lunchtime," said Benz.

[FieldGoodie05]

If the basketball season is affected, which it shouldn't be,  you are going to have a lot more to worry about than sports.  The viability of some colleges and universities  will be hanging in the balance. and some will close their doors if students do not return to campus in the Fall.  This close down has to end soon or this country is in deep doo-doo.  As long as some of the press, some academia and some in the public health sector keep promoting shut down instead of concern for getting the economy back up and running, people are going to run scared.   What are we going to do in the Fall when the regular flu season returns on it's annual basis?  Shut downs, masks, social distances, gloves , etc. every time someone sneezes,  coughs, or has a fever?  Many seem to be oblivious to common sense these days.  While some precautions need to be practiced right now,  lets not blow this all out of proportion.

And drop the Mic!  100% onboard with common sense here.  We are not evolved enough in medicine to begin to think we can entirely control the world we live in.  The business world is quite aware of what risk and reward is, as they deal with it on a daily basis. We should continue to consider what medical science knows today but we also have to make a business decision at some point and I think it's fairly safe to say that Sweden didn't fall apart so continue to open up intelligently and realize we may have jumped the gun on this one.

[NativeCheesehead]

I'm sure we'll argue for decades about the response to this. But it has been interesting watching the old Isaac Asimov quote playing out in real time. Ironic since I first read this while at Vu. 

" There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

[crusadermoe]

......and yet its been proven in the last 2 months by our math-challenged medical researchers (vast over-prediction of fatalities), our frenetic click-thirsty media, and our permanently employed government workers that Will Rogers was right.  "There is nothing so uncommon as common sense."

[crusader05]

Hi just a reminder that there may be people in this chat who have family members or close friends who have been sicken by or even died by this virus. Maybe out of respect of both this being not a politics forum and that we don't know what others are going for we don't turn this into a weird partisan fight

[VALPO LI]

I just want to escape from my crazy kids and ever so loving wife for 20 minutes a day and read about Valpo basketball! Then I'll go back to this crazy world we all live in now.

[valpo64]

I sure did not mean to disrespect anyone regarding suffering the consequences of the "virus" as I have a friend who suffered  from it.  I am sorry if I offended anyone in this regard.

[wh]

I sure did not mean to disrespect anyone regarding suffering the consequences of the "virus" as I have a friend who suffered  from it.  I am sorry if I offended anyone in this regard.

'64, You have nothing to apologize for. What you said is correct, and you weren't being insensitive in saying it.

This discussion is a microcosm of what happens every day across the national political landscape. Dems intentionally slow-play the recovery in order to damage Trump's chances for re-election, then shame anyone who dares express that we need to get our economy back on track. What happens nationally and what happened to you are identical in that both are consistent with a long established, deeply ingrained anarchical tactic:

"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
Rules for Radicals, Rule No. 13
By Saul D. Alinsky, Anarchist

This tactic is part of a larger counter cultural theme recently parroted by Hilary Clinton called "Never let a crisis go to waste". It's political sleaze perpetrated by the left, nothing more. Pay no attention to it.

[vu72]

The problem is that we have zero national strategy.  We can't even get people to wear masks.

Then the President says this--"I think we're doing very well on the vaccines but, with or without a vaccine, it's going to pass, and we're going to be back to normal," Trump said.  Does this sound familiar?  Remember back on March 10 when he said this:"It will go away, just stay calm," Mr. Trump said of the coronavirus Tuesday. He added, "Be calm. It's really working out. And a lot of good things are going to happen." Clearly he is way over his head.  That isn't a knock, it is reality.

In the meantime we are adding 25,000 cases a day and losing 2,000 Americans.  The states are fighting their own battles for testing.  This isn't trying to "shame" anyone.  It is trying to save lives.