Butler-Northern State game

[wh]

Butler and Northern State are tied at 25 at the half.  Like us they have a lot of new guys to blend in to the mix this year.  It's probably going to take some time.  Thank goodness for exhibition games!

[zvillehaze]

So far, 3 freshmen have played double figure minutes (and Smeathers might have if he didn't pick up 3 fouls in 2 minutes  ).  No Hopkins tonight as he's out with a concussion.  It's definitely going to take a while to get all the new guys integrated and get the older guys used to their new roles.  Very similar to what Valpo is going through.

Things would look a little different if Hayward and Mack were kicking off their senior seasons (just like you guys with Wood).  

[wh]

So far, 3 freshmen have played double figure minutes (and Smeathers might have if he didn't pick up 3 fouls in 2 minutes  ).  No Hopkins tonight as he's out with a concussion.  It's definitely going to take a while to get all the new guys integrated and get the older guys used to their new roles.  Very similar to what Valpo is going through.

Things would look a little different if Hayward and Mack were kicking off their senior seasons (just like you guys with Wood).   

While watching our game the other night, I have to admit wishing that BWood was still playing "selfishly" for us instead of "unselfishly" for MS.  As to Hayward and Mack playing on this year's Butler team, can you imagine...

[wh]

Northern beat Butler 53-50.  When I looked earlier Butler had a 9 pt. lead pretty late in the game.  Strange...

[zvillehaze]

Yep ... it was 50-41 before a 12-0 run capped by a 3 at the buzzer.  I expected a slow start to the season, but didn't expect this.      Nice lesson for the new guys on what the college game is all about.  Maybe Saturday will be better. 

[valpopal]

Our Hillsdale game suddenly looks a little bit better now.

[vu72]

That thud you heard was Butler landing back on the ground.  Humbling.  Hopefully we both will look better the next game.  I'm sure there will be excuses about Hopkins not playing as we had excuses with our guys out.

Exhibition or not, no one likes reading about losing to a team picked tenth in their conference who lost to Purdue by 32.  Ugh.

[valpo84]

C'mon it's just an exhibition and that's what they are for -- getting new guys minutes, learning the Butler Way, working out new offensive sets, seeing how new players handle adversity, etc. (SI) Just trying to walk some of the Butler faithful back from the keyboards before hitting "post." It will be fine come regular season. Cue "all is well" clip from Animal House.

[historyman]

Can you imagine what this victory means to Northern. They just beat the NCAA div.1 Runner-Up, not just last year but the last 2 years. I'm sure there is some celebrating going on at that school. That is one win those players at Northern will never forget.


And as you might have guessed the panic has started on the Butler message board:

The national runner up should NEVER lose at home to a D-II squad. The ones who aren't panicking or who think this is no big deal are sorely mistaken. Northern State had played 3 games in 4 days... there are no excuses.

Here's what I said on Oct. 20 in the Starting 5 thread because I think it is even more pertinent after tonight. "I'm really worried about how we're going to score this year. There are at most a couple jump shooters on this team... and the only guys who can create their own shot are in the low post. Off the top of my head I can't think of a team since Butler started their run of 5 straight NCAA appearances that lacked this many shooters. Hopefully we won't see a lot of UCONN-esque displays."

Those comments were painfully accurate. Stigall knocked down two 3's and Smith hit one. Woods shot was completely busted beyond the arc. Nored can't get it into his head that he should only shoot a 3 if open and the shot clock is running down. Hopkins will have to step his game up to another level.

Nored played like a freshman on offense, continuously forcing bad passes and dribbling into traffic. His D was great per usual. Lots of times in the 2nd half he had to cover for the freshman who look like they really need to keep working on hedging in practice.

Smeathers was extremely slow on D and was beat numerous times, which is why he racked up 3 fouls in a couple of minutes. Woods is very long but he should be altering more passes and shots with that wing span. Northern State had tons of tips off missed shots on offense which they were then able to control. Dawgs need to do a better job of boxing out.

Jones is great at getting to the hoop and he hit a really nice floater in traffic in the 1st. Smith? Where do I begin? He plays like he's 6 feet instead of 7. He would post up on the block, then spin away from the hoop. Doesn't make any sense to add 5 feet of distance to your shot attempt.

Not the best coaching job tonight either. Pryor was shooting fadeaways all night, and they refused to change up the defensive scheme on him. You knew it was coming every time he had the ball down low. Also, we had 2 fouls to give on the last possession. PRESSURE THE BALL!

If the Dawgs play like this next week Evansville will run them out of the building.

[motowntitan]

The Big East called- then hung up!

[sectionee]

The Big East called- then hung up!

Ha! That is quite funny.

[dylanrocks]

There are many layers to this, one of which is that a program like Butler in its current state simply doesn't retool like Kentucky or Kansas in a single off-season. It's going to take some time for the new pieces to blend.

But this loss doesn't impact its candidacy for the Big East or any other conference one iota.

[vu72]

There are many layers to this, one of which is that a program like Butler in its current state simply doesn't retool like Kentucky or Kansas in a single off-season. It's going to take some time for the new pieces to blend.

But this loss doesn't impact its candidacy for the Big East or any other conference one iota.

[/b]

Blah, blah, blah 

[valpotx]

He is technically correct, because Butler has always had NO CHANCE at the Big East 

[vu72]

Just took the time to look in detail at the BU-Northern box score.  Some very interesting facts:

Butler's starting 5 scored 88% of the total.  The reserves (6) scored a total of 6, all by Roosevelt Jones.
Northern's starters scored 72% of the total which shows more depth than BU.

BU shot 21 FTs compared to 8 for Northern (similar to our result)

BU relied on the 3 ball, shooting 18 versus Northern's 12. Northern did not win via the 3 as they only shot 33%, nothing unusual.

Northern out rebounded the Bulldogs 35-31.  

The reserves for each team played virtually the same amount with Northern's reserves playing 57 minutes to BU's 55.

Northern pretty much beat them on many fronts, not just a lucky bunch of 3's.  it appears to be more lopsided than the score even though BU lead most of the way.  They have a bunch of work to do but do have Brad Stevens at the helm.  I'm sure they will be fine.

[wh]

That thud you heard was Butler landing back on the ground.  Humbling.  Hopefully we both will look better the next game.  I'm sure there will be excuses about Hopkins not playing as we had excuses with our guys out.

Exhibition or not, no one likes reading about losing to a team picked tenth in their conference who lost to Purdue by 32.  Ugh.

Could you possibly double check this, '72?  I'm not trying to question your fact gathering, but I can't imagine a D-2 team picked 10th in their league beating anyone in the HL, let alone Butler.  I did some searching, but I couldn't find any rankings for them and their conference. 

[valpopal]

That thud you heard was Butler landing back on the ground.  Humbling.  Hopefully we both will look better the next game.  I'm sure there will be excuses about Hopkins not playing as we had excuses with our guys out.

Exhibition or not, no one likes reading about losing to a team picked tenth in their conference who lost to Purdue by 32.  Ugh.

Could you possibly double check this, '72?  I'm not trying to question your fact gathering, but I can't imagine a D-2 team picked 10th in their league beating anyone in the HL, let alone Butler.  I did some searching, but I couldn't find any rankings for them and their conference.  

I think he is referencing the following:

2011-12 NSIC Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches Poll

1.         Augustana (9)                            164
2.         Winona State (3)                        158
3.         Minnesota State (1)                   140
4.         Concordia-St. Paul (1)               135
5.         MSU Moorhead                         122
6.         St. Cloud State                         108
7.         Bemidji State                              82
8.         Southwest Minnesota State          78
9.         Minnesota Duluth                        76
10.        Northern State                             67
11.        Wayne State                               54
12.        University of Mary                       46
13.        Upper Iowa                                 31
14.        Minnesota, Crookston                  13

[valpofan56]

That thud you heard was Butler landing back on the ground.  Humbling.  Hopefully we both will look better the next game.  I'm sure there will be excuses about Hopkins not playing as we had excuses with our guys out.

Exhibition or not, no one likes reading about losing to a team picked tenth in their conference who lost to Purdue by 32.  Ugh.

Could you possibly double check this, '72?  I'm not trying to question your fact gathering, but I can't imagine a D-2 team picked 10th in their league beating anyone in the HL, let alone Butler.  I did some searching, but I couldn't find any rankings for them and their conference.  

NSIC Preseason Coaches Poll

Edit: looks like valpopal beat me to it, but I'll leave the link if somebody wants to look at the whole release.

[wh]

I didn't realize that Augustana is the top ranked team in the same conference.  Look out tonight!

[valpofan56]

I didn't realize that Augustana is the top ranked team in the same conference.  Look out tonight!

Different Augustana. The one in the NSIC is in South Dakota. We're playing the DIII one from Rock Island, IL.

[motowntitan]

Just took the time to look in detail at the BU-Northern box score.  Some very interesting facts:

Butler's starting 5 scored 88% of the total.  The reserves (6) scored a total of 6, all by Roosevelt Jones.
Northern's starters scored 72% of the total which shows more depth than BU.

BU shot 21 FTs compared to 8 for Northern (similar to our result)

BU relied on the 3 ball, shooting 18 versus Northern's 12. Northern did not win via the 3 as they only shot 33%, nothing unusual.

Northern out rebounded the Bulldogs 35-31. 

The reserves for each team played virtually the same amount with Northern's reserves playing 57 minutes to BU's 55.

Northern pretty much beat them on many fronts, not just a lucky bunch of 3's.  it appears to be more lopsided than the score even though BU lead most of the way.  They have a bunch of work to do but do have Brad Stevens at the helm.  I'm sure they will be fine.

I agree.  But one other stat that stuck out to me- Northern State scored the last 12 points of the game- Butler didn't score nor stopped the scoring for almost the last five minutes.   

[IrishDawg]

Enjoy it guys, this season looks to definitely be a rebuilding one for Butler.

Hopkins or not, there really is no excuse for them to lose last night's game.  I know a lot of guys on our board are talking about the different combinations, but the fact is the starters played between 25-36 minutes and they had one reserve play more than 20 minutes and one for 13.  This team is devoid of long range shooters, and while Hopkins was great in the summer pro-am league down in Indy this summer, who knows how he'll be against actual defense.  I can only hope that some of these young guys find some game by the end of the year so that next season they can be closer to what they have been the last couple years.  The additions of Clarke and Dunham next year should also help immensely with the outside shooting, and Harrison-Docks could also be a solid offensive player.

In the long run they should be fine, as long as Brad can keep the team's confidence up (I predict some pretty heavy beatings in the non-conference schedule), then this year can still be a success if they can make it to any kind of postseason play, which would mean more practices and games for the younger guys to get better.

[covufan]

C'mon it's just an exhibition and that's what they are for -- getting new guys minutes, learning the Butler Way, working out new offensive sets, seeing how new players handle adversity, etc. (SI) Just trying to walk some of the Butler faithful back from the keyboards before hitting "post." It will be fine come regular season. Cue "all is well" clip from Animal House.

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor"

[valpopal]

Another Horizon League team just lost to a Div II team at home: Central State 56, Wright State 50.