MBB 2020-2021

[wh]

For me, this article sheds a different light on the Nick Robinson situation.

https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/nick-robinson-claims-valparaiso-gave-play-at-depaul-or-opt-out-ultimatum-matt-lottich-says/article_760ff789-1611-51a0-a6ec-8b761abbf202.html

The reason he gave for wanting to opt out of the DePaul game was not wanting to play in a COVID hotspot. Presumably, they drove directly to an empty arena, played a game where the only noise was sneakers squeaking, and drove straight back to Valpo. The arena might as well have been in Kouts as far as COVID risk goes. Secondly, what does that have to do with being a new father? Nothing, at least on the surface. The optics of opting out of a game because of some phantom COVID risk after already missing several games due to "personal" reasons looks pretty bad (and weak).

BTW, I don't have any problem that he opted out of the rest of the season. It makes perfect since that he has more important priorities right now. What I do have a problem with is the cheap shot directed at Lottich on his way out the door. It was completely unnecessary and, if anything, makes him look petty. Why do that?

[valpo64]

I wholeheartedly agree, wh.

[vuny98]

I must be the only member of the board who found the letter completely self serving. We don't know what the coach said to him or he said to the coach. We do know that the player, for whatever reason, felt the need to quickly get his side of the story out there presenting himself in the best possible light including a review of his basketball career at Valpo. I found that odd and completely unnecessary and also, apparently, not really much of the issue which caused him to opt out. He didn't present himself in a great light to me with the letter. As an aside, the coaching staff has a roster of players to deal with and many situations come up in other players lives which may not seem as high up the food chain as the birth of a child but might be just as important to those other players who might ask for special treatment...if one wishes to call it that.

That's what jumped out to me when I read the letter. Why is he talking about being 3rd in all these stats? It seemed like he was saying, I'm one of your best players, you should be bending over backwards to accommodate me. Now I don't blame him at all for opting out, but he could/should have simply said, I had to make a choice, commit myself to my team or my family, I chose my family. And I would have applauded him for it. But he took some shots on the way out. I'm sure he felt disrespected, but it wasn't a great look. I wish him the best.

[justducky]

I can't get Nick Robinson out of my head and thus feel compelled to verbalize some of my outsider observations.

Observation #1   Covid created chaos, then chaos brakes down discipline, then undisciplined play and practice destroys the team.

Observation #2     Nick and Matt have a talk, Nick opts out, and miraculously Emil and Zion are back in uniform for a team that seems risen from the dead.      Very curious stuff

I don't have any problem that he opted out of the rest of the season. It makes perfect since that he has more important priorities right now. What I do have a problem with is the cheap shot directed at Lottich on his way out the door. It was completely unnecessary and, if anything, makes him look petty. Why do that?

100% agreement with wh. This is essentially a throw away season with no fans, little excitement and no eligibility loss. All Matt requested was full team commitment or 0% team commitment. wh has pointed out in the past that coddling athletes who lack team first thinking will lead to reduced efforts from everybody. It is inevitable. Sloth or the appearance of sloth is more team contagious than covid.

Observation and Speculation #3   If Nick wants to continue anywhere with basketball then maybe he should rethink things. In the upcoming eligibility glut finding a comfortable and equal or better NCAA situation might be vastly more difficult than imagined. While always showing promise his numbers and highlight reels are limited and their coaches will also demand an all out commitment. That is just a basic and essential part of any scholarship or professional agreement. Also he left a team in turmoil that suddenly finds life. Ouch

[VUGrad1314]

I personally found Robinson to be very disappointing during his time here. I was very excited when he was brought in but I just don't think he had the impact he should have. Injuries played a role and it's not his fault but I also felt this when he was on the floor too. I wish him the best and respect his decision but I think we will survive this loss, as our improved play against ISUr seems to indicate.

[VU2014]

[valpotx]

Those Purdue and Toledo losses sure look a lot better now.  Even though Purdue lost tonight, they are at #24, and Toledo is killing the MAC.

[VUGrad1314]

Those Purdue and Toledo losses sure look a lot better now.  Even though Purdue lost tonight, they are at #24, and Toledo is killing the MAC.

There are no "good losses." We should have beaten Purdue. And we beat a team that beat Toledo.

[valpotx]

There are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1). 

[VUGrad1314]

There are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

[valpotx]

There are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

I believe that you have followed for 8 seasons now, or is it longer?  Imagine how many of us feel, that go back to the late 90s, or even back to our original good run in the mid-90s.  We've experienced nothing but winning and championships for around 25 seasons, outside of 4 or 5 losing record seasons.  It will get better, as long as we don't lose another top player after this season.

[VUGrad1314]

There are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

I believe that you have followed for 8 seasons now, or is it longer?  Imagine how many of us feel, that go back to the late 90s, or even back to our original good run in the mid-90s.  We've experienced nothing but winning and championships for around 25 seasons, outside of 4 or 5 losing record seasons.  It will get better, as long as we don't lose another top player after this season.

I came to this board because I learned of its existence around the time of the MVC invite. I've been following for much longer. I grew up in Valpo. I remember The Shot (though that was my one year away from town during my childhood when my family moved for work before instantly coming back). I remember watching games during the Grafs Barton era I remember watching Oppland and Huff and countless others. I attended games in the Mid-Con and HL years even before I was a student. I remember how excited I was when we first got the callup to the HL when I was in High School which of course raised my interest in the program. Naturally, my interest in Valpo athletics grew even more when I became a student as well as a resident of Valpo so yeah my following the team got a lot closer from 09-10 onwards but I'm in your same boat. I remember the decades of dominance of the Drews and I miss it very much. I understand that with better competition it's harder to dominate like that and I don't need to see Valpo totally dominate the MVC year in year out (Though that would be just super obviously) to be happy I just don't want to see us become an afterthought in this great new conference as a perennial bottom half\last place doormat. If we could get to the top of the Horizon when it was only a little weaker than the current MVC is now, then we can and should be able to get to the top of the MVC. I want to believe that  winning this league 3+ times a decade or so is reasonable like it is for other programs. That's all I want. (Of course if and when we get there watch me ask for more but them's the breaks of being a fan.)   For me four years of mediocre play is a very long time and I want to see some sense of urgency to have it end. I know I'm a bit irrational and unreasonable but as I said that's what being a fan fundamentally is. Fandom isn't rational or reasonable. It's a lot of emotional energy and time. I just want it to be time well spent. And watching the team lose repeatedly is not what I call time well spent so when that happens I feel the need to vent and complain. I hope soon I won't feel the need to complain nearly as much. 

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/nwisports/status/1357096045315043330?s=21

[may know]

VUGrad — with how long you've been a fan, I'm surprised you didn't learn of this board's existence until 2017. Did you just never become aware of forums in general until then?

[wh]

https://twitter.com/nwisports/status/1357096045315043330?s=21

Another excellent Paul Oren feature story. I have a real heart for guys like Sheldon and Connor, who have overcome more than their share of trials and tribulations to get where they are. Many of the best people I've ever known have powerful character-building back stories.

[crusadermoe]

This idea that we need to "prove we belong in the MVC" is getting tiresome.

Even with one of our weaker teams we actually are in 6th place which avoids the play in game even though I would predict we slide to 7th or 8th.  But with four teams below us, we belong with the other 8.  We beat Loyola to reach the finals in St. Louis for God's sake. 

Do we yearn to play YSU again? We may not belong on the floor with Loyola and Drake this year, but we belong in the MVC with 8 other teams on our level. Enough on that riff.

[wh]

Creighton and Wichita State dominated the MVC before they moved on to greener pastures. The remaining 8 saw this as their chance to finally become king of the mountain. Their fans have always wanted 2 things from the replacement programs, Loyola and Valpo - be competitive enough to maintain the conference's standing, but don't become the new kings of the mountain. In other words, do well, but not too well. The last thing Valpo fans should be worried about is trying to earn the respect of fans of other programs that think like that. They don't have the slightest interest in our success or failure, other than what we can do to help them get where they want to go. They're not our friends; they're at best our friendly adversaries.

[VUGrad1314]

This idea that we need to "prove we belong in the MVC" is getting tiresome. Even with one of our weaker teams we actually are in 6th place which avoids the play in game even though I would predict we slide to 7th or 8th.  But with four teams below us, we belong with the other 8.  We beat Loyola to reach the finals in St. Louis for God's sake. Do we yearn to play YSU again? We may not belong on the floor with Loyola and Drake this year, but we belong in the MVC with 8 other teams on our level. Enough on that riff.

Many of our performances suggest otherwise. We've been absolutely blasted many times this year and in other years. Maybe we do as a collection of talent belong in the MVC but we sure as heck don't show that consistently enough by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, we weren't brought in to "compete with the other 8" we were brought in to be an upper-tier team. That's what everyone was expecting when we were added. Our metrics suggested it should be so our performance against MVC competition prior to our invite suggested that it should be so and the fact that we lost a coin flip to a Murray State program with as good or better credentials than our own suggested that it should be so. Murray State would not have struggled to the degree that we have in this conference and that is a stone cold fact. Our first year if they had been in the MVC the league would have had two bids with both teams winning at least one game. Murray State would have been far more competitive than we have been probably in every year except this one since we've been in the MVC. Have we even won a single team sports title since we've moved up? In ANYTHING? Color me unconvinced that we've proven anything as far as belonging in this conference goes. Three wins in St Louis last year doesn't change that in my mind, not with the start we've gotten off to this year. Our only wins this year are against SIUE a sweep of ISUr (a team at the bottom of the conference) and a win at home over a disappointing Bradley team that has fallen short of its own expectations at home in double overtime. We may be in sixth place now but I am skeptical of our ability to stay there. I am also unsure when we can finally shed the Thursday team label even just once. Could be next year or it could be many years off into the future. I don't know with this program what I'm going to get on a nightly basis and that is not comforting in the slightest. I don't want to get to the point where I just expect and accept mediocrity but that seems to be what I'm being conditioned towards. I don't want that and I hope the rest of the fanbase and also the administration and players don't want that either.

[may know]

From my experiences at games, STL, social media, and reading other boards — I'll say my experience is far different than what wh describes.

I've found the league to have distinctive camaraderie where there's a massive outpouring of support for whoever plays in the NCAA Tournament each year.

Also, virtually every league fan I've talked with has been gracious and everyone genuinely roots for each other to do well.

Sure, there's an online troll or two for each team, but overall the tight-knitness of the Valley has been what I've been most struck by.

[vuny98]

From my experiences at games, STL, social media, and reading other boards — I'll say my experience is far different than what wh describes. I've found the league to have distinctive camaraderie where there's a massive outpouring of support for whoever plays in the NCAA Tournament each year. Also, virtually every league fan I've talked with has been gracious and everyone genuinely roots for each other to do well. Sure, there's an online troll or two for each team, but overall the tight-knitness of the Valley has been what I've been most struck by.

I think both are true... My impression of WH's post is that everyone wants to be THE team in the conference, which is true. So in that regard, yes we are all adversaries. But we still want the conference as a whole to succeed, so when conference foes play Power 5 conferences or make it to the tournament, we root for them. But not at the expense of our team.

Think about it as a job. You want people to join your team that will help you and the team succeed. Not someone that will just sit around and drag everyone else down. But you also don't want someone to get hired that is so much better than you that they take the promotion you have been working so hard to get for years.

[bbtds]

There are bad losses, so saying that they don't look as bad now/looking better, does not mean that I am saying that they are 'good losses.'  Some on here were calling it a bad loss, as they envisioned Purdue at the bottom of the Big 10 this year, which is currently #24 at 12-7 (7-5).  Also, Toledo lost to Bradley by 2, in the first game of the season, and is now 16-4 (11-1).

I'm sorry. I'm just testy and tired of the mediocrity. I've been waiting for four years for this program to get better and prove it belongs in the MVC and it just doesn't feel like that day is coming any time soon. Sorry I'm so pessimistic I'm just really impatient. I'm used to watching Valpo win and I want to see us get back to that point.

I believe that you have followed for 8 seasons now, or is it longer?  Imagine how many of us feel, that go back to the late 90s, or even back to our original good run in the mid-90s.  We've experienced nothing but winning and championships for around 25 seasons, outside of 4 or 5 losing record seasons.  It will get better, as long as we don't lose another top player after this season.

I came to this board because I learned of its existence around the time of the MVC invite. I've been following for much longer. I grew up in Valpo. I remember The Shot (though that was my one year away from town during my childhood when my family moved for work before instantly coming back). I remember watching games during the Grafs Barton era I remember watching Oppland and Huff and countless others. I attended games in the Mid-Con and HL years even before I was a student. I remember how excited I was when we first got the callup to the HL when I was in High School which of course raised my interest in the program. Naturally, my interest in Valpo athletics grew even more when I became a student as well as a resident of Valpo so yeah my following the team got a lot closer from 09-10 onwards but I'm in your same boat. I remember the decades of dominance of the Drews and I miss it very much. I understand that with better competition it's harder to dominate like that and I don't need to see Valpo totally dominate the MVC year in year out (Though that would be just super obviously) to be happy I just don't want to see us become an afterthought in this great new conference as a perennial bottom half\last place doormat. If we could get to the top of the Horizon when it was only a little weaker than the current MVC is now, then we can and should be able to get to the top of the MVC. I want to believe that  winning this league 3+ times a decade or so is reasonable like it is for other programs. That's all I want. (Of course if and when we get there watch me ask for more but them's the breaks of being a fan.)   For me four years of mediocre play is a very long time and I want to see some sense of urgency to have it end. I know I'm a bit irrational and unreasonable but as I said that's what being a fan fundamentally is. Fandom isn't rational or reasonable. It's a lot of emotional energy and time. I just want it to be time well spent. And watching the team lose repeatedly is not what I call time well spent so when that happens I feel the need to vent and complain. I hope soon I won't feel the need to complain nearly as much. 

Imagine going back 40 years before you started and going through the Bartow era but also sinking all the way down to the early Homer Drew era, then watching Homer, Scott and Bryce the Bruce go to another zenith that went further than the Bartow era. It has always been a roller coaster at Valpo.

[wh]

Every program in the MVC has the power within to elevate the profile of the conference by elevating its own program. The measure of success is a combination of coaching (teaching, executing, scouting), recruiting, scheduling, and institutional support. IMO there are no more than 2 (maybe 3) MVC programs that are consistently functioning at a high level. Others are up and down, and a couple have been in decline since we arrived on the scene. Then there's Valpo, which short of last year's tournament has been mediocre, at best, or said more positively - yet to make an impact (which I believe we will, sooner rather than later).

The point is there is growth potential all over the place just waiting to be tapped. Bringing in supposed white horses (and who knows if they are) to "fix what ails us" is an admission of failure. Is that honestly where this conference is at in its thinking? This reminds me of the old HL/Summit mentality, where we fans were always pleading for some white horse of the day to offset a collection of declining or interminably bad men's basketball programs. Again, is that where the MVC is at? I don't think so.

[oklahomamick]

I don't think mediocre is the word I would describe, 10th, T8th, T6th......And we still have 2021 which doesn't look like we will finish in the top half. 

[JBC1824]

Nothing mediocre about it.

[wh]

I said, "Then there's Valpo, which short of last year's tournament has been mediocre, at best."