Covid-19

[wh]

It is fine to reference COVID originating from Wuhan, but calling it the Wuhan Flu or Chinese Flu, is considered racist, regardless of how it was originally referenced.  Do we say Africa Ebola or US AIDS? 

The CDC calls viruses by their place names. Here are examples from the CDC web page:



Ebola virus (species Zaire ebolavirus)
Sudan virus (species Sudan ebolavirus)
Taï Forest virus (species Taï Forest ebolavirus, formerly Côte d'Ivoire ebolavirus)
Bundibugyo virus (species Bundibugyo ebolavirus)
Reston virus (species Reston ebolavirus)
Bombali virus (species Bombali ebolavirus)

• Lyme Disease originated in Lyme, Connecticut.
• 3 guesses where Hong Kong flu originated.
• I think the Spanish flu started in Spain. (I've been dreaming of sucker punching a Spaniard ever since.
• MERS stands for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. Don't tell anyone, but it originated in Saudi Arabia.
• Ebola began in the Ebola River region of the Congo.
• The Hendra virus, which I never heard of, was named after the Brisbane suburb of Hendra. I hate those people now, whoever they are.
• And, for good measure, a few more places and people to hate: Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, West Nile Virus, Ross River Fever, Norovirus (named after its city of origin Norwalk, Ohio), Japanese Encephalitis, and, as all Boomers remember all too well, German Measles.

[vu84v2]

There is no evidence that the Spanish Flu originated in Spain. There are a variety of theories, the main one being that it originated in and around U.S. military based in Kansas.

[valpotx]

It is fine to reference COVID originating from Wuhan, but calling it the Wuhan Flu or Chinese Flu, is considered racist, regardless of how it was originally referenced.  Do we say Africa Ebola or US AIDS? 

The CDC calls viruses by their place names. Here are examples from the CDC web page:



Ebola virus (species Zaire ebolavirus)
Sudan virus (species Sudan ebolavirus)
Taï Forest virus (species Taï Forest ebolavirus, formerly Côte d'Ivoire ebolavirus)
Bundibugyo virus (species Bundibugyo ebolavirus)
Reston virus (species Reston ebolavirus)
Bombali virus (species Bombali ebolavirus)

• Lyme Disease originated in Lyme, Connecticut.
• 3 guesses where Hong Kong flu originated.
• I think the Spanish flu started in Spain. (I've been dreaming of sucker punching a Spaniard ever since.
• MERS stands for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. Don't tell anyone, but it originated in Saudi Arabia.
• Ebola began in the Ebola River region of the Congo.
• The Hendra virus, which I never heard of, was named after the Brisbane suburb of Hendra. I hate those people now, whoever they are.
• And, for good measure, a few more places and people to hate: Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, West Nile Virus, Ross River Fever, Norovirus (named after its city of origin Norwalk, Ohio), Japanese Encephalitis, and, as all Boomers remember all too well, German Measles.

Most of the examples provided are from several decades back, and in the case of Spanish Flu, around 100 years back.  Most of the folks saying 'Chinese Flu' or 'Wuhan Flu,' very well know that they are not just trying to imply that is fitting into proper nomenclature of outbreak-naming.  Come on now, you are smarter than this.  In my community, the same people yelling 'white power,' posing with confederate flags, despairing CRT in our schools (which is not factual), etc, are the same people saying Chinese Flu.

[wh]

This is just verbal gymnastics. COVID is and always will be associated with Wuhan, China, irrespective of virus titles. The only question is whether it was manufactured in a test tube in the Wuhan lab or coincidentally began organically at a live market down the street. If it's proven to be intentional, it will change the course of history. Time will tell.

[valpopal]

This is just verbal gymnastics. COVID is and always will be associated with Wuhan, China, irrespective of virus titles. The only question is whether it was manufactured in a test tube in the Wuhan lab or coincidentally began organically at a live market down the street. If it's proven to be intentional, it will change the course of history. Time will tell.

This is true. Trying to deflect by stating the previous viruses were named far in the past is disingenuous. Just last week NBC reported from the CDC about "the New York variant," "the Brazilian variant," "the South African variant," "the Indian variant," "the U.K. variant," and others. Anyone who doesn't realize the refusal to use "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese virus" has to do with medical politics and cooperation with the Chinese government is being naive. If Wuhan is named, then the direct link to the Wuhan Institute of Virology is obvious, and that is where coronavirus experiments were taking place that intentionally enhanced the deadly aspects of SARS2. These experiments were approved and funded by U.S. medical individuals and organizations, including Dr. Fauci and the EchoHealth Alliance of New York, headed by Peter Daszak. As Nicholas Wade writes in his stellar reporting:


"Virologists like Daszak had much at stake in the assigning of blame for the pandemic. For 20 years, mostly beneath the public's attention, they had been playing a dangerous game. In their laboratories they routinely created viruses more dangerous than those that exist in nature. They argued that they could do so safely, and that by getting ahead of nature they could predict and prevent natural 'spillovers,' the cross-over of viruses from an animal host to people. If SARS2 had indeed escaped from such a laboratory experiment, a savage blowback could be expected, and the storm of public indignation would affect virologists everywhere, not just in China. "It would shatter the scientific edifice top to bottom," an MIT Technology Review editor, Antonio Regalado, said in March 2020."


Wade further reports:



"...either the director of the NIAID, Anthony Fauci, or the director of the NIH, Francis Collins, or maybe both, would have invoked the exemption in order to keep the money flowing to Shi's gain-of-function research, and later to avoid notifying the federal reporting system of her research.


"Unfortunately, the NIAID Director and the NIH Director exploited this loophole to issue exemptions to projects subject to the Pause –preposterously asserting the exempted research was 'urgently necessary to protect public health or national security'—thereby nullifying the Pause," Dr. Richard Ebright said in an interview with Independent Science News.


The objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China for a worldwide pandemic that is now projected to kill 10,000,000 people by the end of this year. Perhaps this could be considered the most serious crime since the Holocaust. Nicholas Wade places the blame at four groups: 1) Chinese virologists, 2) Chinese government authorities, 3) The worldwide community of virologists who aided and have covered up, 4) The US individuals and agencies that funded the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Avoiding the terms Wuhan Virus and China Virus only serves to abet the deceit. 


https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/

[vu72]

The objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China

Or perhaps to stop the over 3000 attacks on Asian Americans.  Give it a rest.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/

[valpopal]

The objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China

Or perhaps to stop the over 3000 attacks on Asian Americans.  Give it a rest.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/

There were not 3,000 "attacks." Your own source reports that figure has to do with "incidents," which has a very broad definition. According to Statista and California State University, the number of "reported" (some will be seen as false reports and some others charged will likely be found innocent) anti-Asian crimes across the country in 2020 was 122, the largest number occurring in New York City, and many arose during the times of the Black Lives Matter riots not because the term "Wuhan virus" was used.

[wh]

The objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China

Or perhaps to stop the over 3000 attacks on Asian Americans.  Give it a rest.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/

There were not 3,000 "attacks." Your own source reports that figure has to do with "incidents," which has a very broad definition. According to Statista and California State University, the number of anti-Asian crimes across the country in 2020 was 122, the largest number occurring in New York City, and many arose during the times of the Black Lives Matter riots not because the term "Wuhan virus" was used.

Yeah, I was hoping we could avoid bring this to light, but when people keep distorting the truth, it becomes unavoidable. Over 90% of these "incidents" occurred in large urban centers and perpetrated by individuals who typically vote Democrat in overwhelming numbers. This group has a long-standing, deep seated frustration with Asians coming to America and "stealing" jobs from underserved minorities. When something happens that reinforces their disdain, frustration can very quickly lead to frustration aggression. And, with that, I would suggest we move on.

[valpotx]

This is just verbal gymnastics. COVID is and always will be associated with Wuhan, China, irrespective of virus titles. The only question is whether it was manufactured in a test tube in the Wuhan lab or coincidentally began organically at a live market down the street. If it's proven to be intentional, it will change the course of history. Time will tell.

This is true. Trying to deflect by stating the previous viruses were named far in the past is disingenuous. Just last week NBC reported from the CDC about "the New York variant," "the Brazilian variant," "the South African variant," "the Indian variant," "the U.K. variant," and others. Anyone who doesn't realize the refusal to use "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese virus" has to do with medical politics and cooperation with the Chinese government is being naive. If Wuhan is named, then the direct link to the Wuhan Institute of Virology is obvious, and that is where coronavirus experiments were taking place that intentionally enhanced the deadly aspects of SARS2. These experiments were approved and funded by U.S. medical individuals and organizations, including Dr. Fauci and the EchoHealth Alliance of New York, headed by Peter Daszak. As Nicholas Wade writes in his stellar reporting:


"Virologists like Daszak had much at stake in the assigning of blame for the pandemic. For 20 years, mostly beneath the public's attention, they had been playing a dangerous game. In their laboratories they routinely created viruses more dangerous than those that exist in nature. They argued that they could do so safely, and that by getting ahead of nature they could predict and prevent natural 'spillovers,' the cross-over of viruses from an animal host to people. If SARS2 had indeed escaped from such a laboratory experiment, a savage blowback could be expected, and the storm of public indignation would affect virologists everywhere, not just in China. "It would shatter the scientific edifice top to bottom," an MIT Technology Review editor, Antonio Regalado, said in March 2020."


Wade further reports:



"...either the director of the NIAID, Anthony Fauci, or the director of the NIH, Francis Collins, or maybe both, would have invoked the exemption in order to keep the money flowing to Shi's gain-of-function research, and later to avoid notifying the federal reporting system of her research.


"Unfortunately, the NIAID Director and the NIH Director exploited this loophole to issue exemptions to projects subject to the Pause –preposterously asserting the exempted research was 'urgently necessary to protect public health or national security'—thereby nullifying the Pause," Dr. Richard Ebright said in an interview with Independent Science News.


The objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China for a worldwide pandemic that is now projected to kill 10,000,000 people by the end of this year. Perhaps this could be considered the most serious crime since the Holocaust. Nicholas Wade places the blame at four groups: 1) Chinese virologists, 2) Chinese government authorities, 3) The worldwide community of virologists who aided and have covered up, 4) The US individuals and agencies that funded the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Avoiding the terms Wuhan Virus and China Virus only serves to abet the deceit. 


https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/

Not disingenuous at all.  I genuinely believe such a thing.  You completely gloss over the fact that the majority of people who still say 'the Chinese virus' or 'the Wuhan flu,' are people that have views similar to what I mentioned in my comment.  In my community, the people purposely saying Wuhan Flu at this point in time, are the same folks yelling 'white power' at candidates of a minority persuasion, among other despicable things.  Like a lot of other people, I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.

[valpopal]

I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.

Just curious, weren't you the one who once said the following: "I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning.  Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word." 

[vu84v2]

Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?

[valpotx]

I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.

Just curious, weren't you the one who once said the following: "I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning.  Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word." 

Yes, but my view doesn't translate over to racism.  Racism is racism.  A Crusader can come from all over the world, and is not tied to any specific culture or ethnicity, though it obviously probably leaned white male.  Crusaders came from Bulgaria, Hungary, etc, which do include other races.

[wh]

Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?

Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.

[valpopal]

I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.

Just curious, weren't you the one who once said the following: "I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning.  Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word." 

Yes, but my view doesn't translate over to racism.  Racism is racism.  A Crusader can come from all over the world, and is not tied to any specific culture or ethnicity, though it obviously probably leaned white male.  Crusaders came from Bulgaria, Hungary, etc, which do include other races.

Since the "hate group" in your first comment includes the most notorious racist KKK, which named their official newspaper The Crusader, I can only read the attempted "racism" rationalization in your second comment as a textbook definition of "distinction without a difference." 

[vu72]

Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people

Except, wh, it isn't just Chinese people. Anyone from Asia that resembles a Chinese person has been subject to these attacks.  And as for valpopal's assertion that in reality the number of attacks was actually 122, the ignorance of such a statement says all I need to hear. I'm done wasting my time on this discussion.

[valpopal]

as for valpopal's assertion that in reality the number of attacks was actually 122, the ignorance of such a statement says all I need to hear. I'm done wasting my time on this discussion.

My 122 number for reported anti-Asian hate crimes (New York City led the nation with 28 reports) was quoted from the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino, and broadcast by NBC News. The data revealed that some large cities, such as San Diego and Cincinnati, only experienced one anti-Asian crime report each. Although even one hate crime is deplorable, it is interesting to note for comparison that about 450 people are struck by lightning in the US each year (50 fatal). Anyway, I apologize for citing such sources of "ignorance." Obviously, these sources must not be as legitimate as your false report of "3,000 attacks" that was not even accurate according to the very article you linked.

[valpotx]

Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?

Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.

Haha, you should probably Google Colleyville and Southlake household income.  Attaching one data point of reference where you can see how 'podunk' my area is lol. 

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/slideshow/Richest-Cities-in-Texas-2020-199207.php

Found another: https://datausa.io/profile/geo/colleyville-tx#:~:text=Median%20household%20income%20in%20Colleyville%2C%20TX%20is%20%24175%2C369.

[wh]

Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?

Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.

Haha, you should probably Google Colleyville and Southlake household income.  Attaching one data point of reference where you can see how 'podunk' my area is lol. 

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/slideshow/Richest-Cities-in-Texas-2020-199207.php

Found another: https://datausa.io/profile/geo/colleyville-tx#:~:text=Median%20household%20income%20in%20Colleyville%2C%20TX%20is%20%24175%2C369.

Whoops, very poor choice of words. I didn't mean that the way it came out. I'm sure you live in a very nice area. My apologies.

[wh]

Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people

Except, wh, it isn't just Chinese people. Anyone from Asia that resembles a Chinese person has been subject to these attacks.  And as for valpopal's assertion that in reality the number of attacks was actually 122, the ignorance of such a statement says all I need to hear. I'm done wasting my time on this discussion.

Yeah, this topic has worn me out, as well. Let's call it a draw and get our minds refocused on the great recruits and transfers we have to look forward to.

[vu84v2]

Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?

Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.

For what it is worth, I was not condoning how the Chinese government has approached investigating the cause of the virus. It seems that they are completely focused on saving face for the Chinese government instead of getting to the truth. And I agree that the Chinese people are the greatest victims of the CCP...and so do most of my Chinese friends and colleagues.

[wh]

Indiana University cannot require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, attorney general says

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

[Pgmado]

Indiana University cannot require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, attorney general says

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

So stupid. This is nothing new. Kids have been having to show vaccination cards to go to school since they were born. The group that is so hellbent on documentation for voting or living in the country suddenly wants no documentation at all of health matters. The hypocrisy is a little too on the nose for me.

[valpopal]

Indiana University cannot require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, attorney general says

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

So stupid. This is nothing new. Kids have been having to show vaccination cards to go to school since they were born. The group that is so hellbent on documentation for voting or living in the country suddenly wants no documentation at all of health matters. The hypocrisy is a little too on the nose for me.

As is usually the case, such sweeping generalizations are inaccurate and misleading. The state attorney general is explaining the details of a law that is specific in its composition. The bipartisan law was approved 88-10 in the House and 48-1 in the Senate; therefore, I am left wondering what "group" is being referenced and who is being "hypocritical." First, the Covid-19 vaccination is not in the same category as those vaccinations that have been required for attending school in the past. This one is still regarded by the Food and Drug administration as "for use on an emergency basis," which is an experimental category. Second, "Rokita noted the law does not prevent IU from requiring its students and employees be vaccinated against COVID-19 or other contagious diseases; it only prevents the university from mandating written or electronic evidence of a person's COVID-19 vaccination status," which is prohibited by law. Another state university, Purdue is within the law by permitting even vaccinated "students to not provide the university with their immunization status if they are willing to be tested for COVID-19." This is the same situation students or faculty with medical or religious exemptions likely would be following at any university, public or private, including Valparaiso.

[vu84v2]

First, does anyone really think that states will change their position once vaccines have regular FDA approval? They'll just come up with a different reason to prevent requiring vaccines.

Second, the documentation law makes no sense. A university requires students to have other vaccines and provide evidence - so why not the COIVD-19 vaccine (especially once it has FDA approval)? Also, if written or electronic evidence cannot be required - isn't that effectively preventing any sort of vaccine requirement policy (unless you are going to require every student to be blood tested)?

Lastly, Purdue's alternative seems quite reasonable - but do they get away with this because their President is a former Republican governor? If the President of Purdue were a former Democratic governor and he instituted the same policy, I could see the governor and state legislature trying to prevent the policy from being implemented.

[valpopal]

First, does anyone really think that states will change their position once vaccines have regular FDA approval? They'll just come up with a different reason to prevent requiring vaccines.

Second, the documentation law makes no sense. A university requires students to have other vaccines and provide evidence - so why not the COIVD-19 vaccine (especially once it has FDA approval)? Also, if written or electronic evidence cannot be required - isn't that effectively preventing any sort of vaccine requirement policy (unless you are going to require every student to be blood tested)?

Lastly, Purdue's alternative seems quite reasonable - but do they get away with this because their President is a former Republican governor? If the President of Purdue were a former Democratic governor and he instituted the same policy, I could see the governor and state legislature trying to prevent the policy from being implemented.

As I suggested in my last post, I don't understand the need to politicize and speculate about a bill that was passed by the Indiana Senate 48-1. The only dissenting voter was a Republican, which indicates the law was fully supported by Democrats. Shouldn't we celebrate a bipartisan act of unity that reflects the will of the people in the state?