Game #2 @ UIC 6:00 PM ESPN3 WVUR 95.1

Chairback · December 01, 2020, 07:47:19 PM

Only bright spot was Conner Barrett hustle tonight. Ziggy should not be playing over this kid.

valpolaw · December 01, 2020, 07:49:20 PM

Just embarrassing....

nkvu · December 01, 2020, 07:50:37 PM

At least we were consistent tonight. Consistently couldn't shoot the 3. Consistently couldn't defend the 3. Oh, and the rest of the things we tried to do pretty much didn't work either. Amazed we scored 50.

VALPO LI · December 01, 2020, 07:50:58 PM

Valpo Looses. 66-50

Quote from: tiny707 on December 01, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
I don't see Valpo winning this one unfortunately. Much better coach at UIC. Especially on the defensive end.

I want to know where I can purchase the crystal ball you are gazing into.

bbtds · December 01, 2020, 07:55:28 PM

https://giphy.com/gifs/8xCX1B5SbV4t2/html5

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohA2IR1gGQKmxnQ0o/giphy.gif

NativeCheesehead · December 01, 2020, 07:57:21 PM

We were just blown out by a bottom feeding team from the conference we left with a first year head coach. Don't talk to me about JFL leaving. Don't talk to me about the number of practices we didn't have before the season. Don't talk to me about potential. This program is about to be 4 for 4 in finishing in the bottom 4 of the conference.

Seriously. Outside of four days this past March, somebody explain to me why I should be excited ( and more importantly, pay money to watch this team once able) to see Matt Lottich's program going forward.

valpotx · December 01, 2020, 07:58:53 PM

For those that want to bemoan a loss, this is a good one for such a thing. That was just ugly, and we did look really bad. Nick is not playing like a Senior. You don't make a bone-headed play, and then immediately foul the person that stole it from you. That is a FR mistake.

I know that this will never change in college basketball, but it annoys the heck out of me to see constant lackadaisical and no-look passes that are lobbed lightly to a teammate. Do you think that the defender is just going to stand still and wait for your guy to catch it? Throw it like a man, and look at the dude that you are passing it to, especially when on the perimeter. That is not hard, regardless of your skill level.

I am going to forget that this game happened, and hope that our season turns out better. A loss to UIC is not as bad as it would have been a few years ago, but they were not overly impressive, to the tune of being 16 points better.

bbtds · December 01, 2020, 08:13:05 PM

justducky · December 01, 2020, 08:20:56 PM

To sum it up we have no penetrators to free up the outside or 3 point shooters to open up penetration or defenders to generate TO's. Other than that our half court defense is slow, our full court defense is ineffective and in Valley play there will be few opportunities to play McMillan and Krikke simultaneously. I have yet to start worrying about our post play because I've yet to see it attempted. I am also not worried about rarely getting to the foul line because we can't seem to hit any of them even if we do get a call. I will make no comments on boxing out because UIC didn't miss enough shots for me to determine our true level of competence or incompetence. Seems like I'm forgetting 7 or 8 other things that need some work but they will come to me!

M · December 01, 2020, 08:38:29 PM

Our middle school level half court offense with no three point threat is going to make it another long season.

Chairback · December 01, 2020, 08:39:38 PM

Has the "we are a young team" excuse been said yet?

I'd give Barrett, Jacob and Goodnews a ton of playing time to build for the future.

I was thinking Edwards was going to be a slasher and take it to the rim and not a player who settles and heaves threes.

Also, when Robinson gets the ball I've never seen a player do so many fake steps and pivots. He gets the ball and goes thru this 5'sec fake step and pivot routine.

NativeCheesehead · December 01, 2020, 08:43:03 PM

Most disappointing offensive coach named Matt in the greater Chicagoland area: Nagy or Lottich?

VUSWIM08-12 · December 01, 2020, 08:45:02 PM

They only had Purdue by 22 against Oakland because Purdue was without a guy. Purdue bench>Oakland starters. That's when a rout happens. Easy money there. I bet the line will be around -18 for Purdue vs Valpo

a3uge · December 01, 2020, 09:54:57 PM

Valpo hadn't lost to UIC since 2008. What changed? Perhaps the MVC wasn't greener pastures. At least in the Horizon I could enjoy 20-some wins a year and blowing out Chicago teams.

may know · December 01, 2020, 10:19:22 PM

"Valpo hadn't lost to UIC since 2008. What changed?"

The coach for both teams.

JBC1824 · December 02, 2020, 01:23:59 AM

I definitely think we should have remained in the Horizon League. We aren't recruiting well enough to compete in the MVC. In fact, we arent recruiting well enough to compete, period, at this point.

Aside from our homerun recruiting snag in Javon a few years back, its been a disaster. Our roster is filled with under-recruited guys found well off the general recruiting "map" and cast-offs from other programs.

But can you really blame recruits for not choosing Valpo? Our athletics facilities are beyond horrible; they're a sincere embarassment and do significant damage to the Valpo "brand." Nothwest Indiana is not a geographical destination to anyone. The campus life doesnt have widespread appeal, and particularly not for young male atheletes. Our academics alone arent stellar enough to attract recruits. Weve lost the tradition and name recognition the Drews brought. And we arent winning games any more, finishing at the bottom of our conference.

Im afraid we're entering a down stretch the likes of which Valpo basketball hasnt experienced in my lifetime. There could be some seriously dark days ahead.

Truly hope I'm proven wrong.

valpotx · December 02, 2020, 02:18:20 AM

We were better off in the HL? Come on, man. That's like a company saying, 'we are doing well at $100m, and have a good opportunity for $200m, but that would require too much effort.' I would much rather be a middle-of-the-road athletic program in the MVC, with the potential for multiple bids in multiple sports, versus a top dog in 1 sport in the HL, but having to win the championship in each sport to taste the NCAA tourney. Horrible athletic facilities? There are many programs around the country, that have more success, and facilities that are less impressive. Just go to the historic A-10 programs, and check out their crap gyms.

bbtds · December 02, 2020, 02:30:54 AM

Quote from: JBC1824 on December 02, 2020, 01:23:59 AM
I definitely think we should have remained in the Horizon League. We aren't recruiting well enough to compete in the MVC. In fact, we arent recruiting well enough to compete, period, at this point.

Aside from our homerun recruiting snag in Javon a few years back, its been a disaster. Our roster is filled with under-recruited guys found well off the general recruiting "map" and cast-offs from other programs.

But can you really blame recruits for not choosing Valpo? Our athletics facilities are beyond horrible; they're a sincere embarassment and do significant damage to the Valpo "brand." Nothwest Indiana is not a geographical destination to anyone. The campus life doesnt have widespread appeal, and particularly not for young male atheletes. Our academics alone arent stellar enough to attract recruits. Weve lost the tradition and name recognition the Drews brought. And we arent winning games any more, finishing at the bottom of our conference.

Im afraid we're entering a down stretch the likes of which Valpo basketball hasnt experienced in my lifetime. There could be some seriously dark days ahead.

Truly hope I'm proven wrong.

I know I get way down after a loss like last night's horrible display but you are WAY over reacting. It was a bad game but it was mostly bad due to poor shooting. Have you even looked at the stats? Valpo went 1 for 14 from three. UIC went 9 for 26 from three. That is a difference of 24 points. We lost by 14 points. UIC was hot and Valpo was not. That stat can change significantly in future games. The program is not lost. We aren't headed to some really dark days due to this one game. It's always interesting to watch new posters get so way down over one game. It happens every year and then we have better games and their whole perspective on the program seems to change.

JBC1824 · December 02, 2020, 03:37:13 AM

We were without a reasonable doubt far better off in the Horizon League. I dont agree with your analogy at all. Ideally the company, in this case Valpo, would have had the self-awareness to say to itself, "we are doing well at $100m, and could attempt to extend ourselves to $200m at this juncture, but ultimately we lack the general preparation, infastructure, and personnel for a succesful transition. We would be wise to improve in said areas before making such a serious commitment." Now, hindsight is of course 20-20, and truthfully I dont besmirch Valpo having made the move to the MVC, but its becoming more and more apparent we bit off more than we could chew. We have not been able to seriously compete in the conference, and the losing hurts our program, perhaps more than any other factor.

We arent middle of the road, either. We're much closer to bottom of the barrel. We've finished in the bottom half of the regular season standings each year we've been in the MVC -- with both a last place and second to last place finish.

The MVC no longer has credible potential to recieve two bids, since the departures of Wichita State and Creighton. Suggesting otherwise is either misguided or disingenuous.

You know what? I sort of gave you the benefit of the doubt regarding the A-10 gyms, and out of curiousity checked them out. Each and every one of them. But there isnt a single one I wouldnt take over the ARC. All of the A-10 gyms are well-lit and more modern than ours. Youre wearing rose-colored glasses. And just because someone else might have a crap gym that doesnt mean we dont have one, too. I dont want a crap gym.

As for the idea our problems can be written off to one night of bad shooting, I think thats optimistic, too. Compared to other teams last season, we were a middle of the pack shooting group. But two of our most efficient shooters in Fazekas and Kiser are now gone. Furthemore, we lost our best scorer to transfer.

The program may not be "lost," but its definitely "misplaced" for the time being. And it isnt just this one game which should make fans think we're potentially headed for dark days, but all of the things mentioned in my last post. I may be a "new poster," but I'm not new to this team, by any means. Things don't look good.

Fans are right to be concerned about this program.

bbtds · December 02, 2020, 04:16:54 AM

Quote from: JBC1824 on December 02, 2020, 01:23:59 AMBut can you really blame recruits for not choosing Valpo? Our athletics facilities are beyond horrible; they're a sincere embarassment and do significant damage to the Valpo "brand." Northwest Indiana is not a geographical destination to anyone. The campus life doesnt have widespread appeal, and particularly not for young male athletes. Our academics alone aren't stellar enough to attract recruits. We've lost the tradition and name recognition the Drews brought. And we aren't winning games any more, finishing at the bottom of our conference.

Im afraid we're entering a down stretch the likes of which Valpo basketball hasn't experienced in my lifetime. There could be some seriously dark days ahead.

Quote from: JBC1824 on December 02, 2020, 03:37:13 AMThe program may not be "lost," but its definitely "misplaced" for the time being. And it isn't just this one game which should make fans think we're potentially headed for dark days, but all of the things mentioned in my last post. I may be a "new poster," but I'm not new to this team, by any means. Things don't look good.

Fans are right to be concerned about this program.

You go from saying Valpo is entering "a down stretch the likes of which Valpo basketball hasn't experienced in my lifetime" to "Fans are right to be concerned about this program." That in itself is quite a change from last night's "the sky is falling" post.

JBC1824 · December 02, 2020, 05:31:50 AM

What are you talking about? Yes... fans are right to be concerned... because Valpo may be entering a down stretch the likes of which Valpo bball hasnt experienced in my lifetime, anyway. Please explain how that is inconsistent?

a3uge · December 02, 2020, 06:46:49 AM

Even if the MVC was a two bid league, Valpo is further from either bid than they were with the one bid in the Horizon. Furthermore, Valpo WAS close to an auto-bid back in the Horizon and probably would have gotten a bid if the new NET formula was used.

Years 1-3 of the MVC Valpo had above .500 out of conference records, but finished bottom of the MVC each year. The OOC record is starting to tank this year. Now that Valpo isn't close to a tournament bid, they can't really sell recruits on the ability to play in the tournament. They're selling a .500 team that finishes bottom third of their league. Maybe some recruits would rather play vs better competition on a bottom teir MVC team vs winning a ton of games in the Horizon League... but we're definitely not seeing the star recruits of the former.

elephtheria47 · December 02, 2020, 07:17:03 AM

I'm of the belief that you always try to improve yourself when you have the chance. I was a big advocate of Valpo joining the MVC. However, I don't fault people who are questioning it.

-Valpo joined the HL without major upgrades, and must have felt they could do the same in joining the MVC. Not only is the ARC getting older and older, we are now judged by our peers who have shiny newer/upgraded arenas.
-im still curious to see how much money we lost when leaving the HL and joining the MVC. The other MVC programs are still collecting from WSU and Creighton NCAA wins (i believe paid out over 7 years). Easier to attract better coaches and recruit further with that money.
-Valpo obviously is having financial troubles. I dont know how likely it is to see upgrades in the near future to these areas. At best its status quo and at worst we will see a decrease.

-College basketball in general is changing. Less fans are going to games all over, which has a much bigger $$ impact the smaller you go (who have less/no TV money). Less fans means decreases in ticket revenue, merch and concession revenue, and overall fandom/Gameday atmosphere. All games are streamed on tv/online now and its far easier and cheaper for people to chose that option.
-Since all games are streamed anymore, there is not a significant, if any, advantage of being shown on regional fox or CBS networks (mvc) vs being streamed on espn3. If you want to watch the games you'll be able to, but the casual fan is not likely to be tuning in.
-major conferences keep getting bigger/expanding their conference schedule, leaving less games/opportunities/SOS/$$ games to the rest of D1 leagues. And we all know what that means when it comes to NCAAT.
-and the last but biggest, is the continued trend for grad transfers and now just transferring in general (getting a one time waiver). In its current landscape, I dont believe we would have retained AlecPeters his entire collegiate career and he just graduated. So when we do get a JFL, its harder (impossible?) than ever to keep them and achieve success. The MVC is at least in the middle where we can do the same to leagues below us, but can also be a landing spot for people looking for a bigger role or struggled initially in conferences above us.

But having said that, success can still be achieved in the MVC and we know what success in the MVC can bring. We were close last year. We have to show we can invest and adapt to the current atmosphere, and I believe that is where we have fallen short for the time being.

oklahomamick · December 02, 2020, 07:43:12 AM

Fair to say that when in the HL we were recruiting MVC players and now that we are in the MVC we are recruiting HL players?

Fact is that we used to beat Loyola all the time. Fact is that we used to beat UIC all the time.

It's frustrating but early in the season. And a very odd season. Things can and probably will get better this season and will finish it off with a 4 game run.

SanityLost17 · December 02, 2020, 08:23:16 AM

We couldn't shoot.... It happens... Settle Down....

3 or 4 games from now we probably have a game where we shoot 45% from 3 and 55% from the floor and everyone will overreact that we are gonna win the MVC if we play like that, which of course we WON'T.. haha

We were cold from the floor and played lackluster defense because that is what people do early in the season when nothing is going right on the offensive end.