Crusaders Retired

[Lurking Dog]

I invite you to vote for a new name on the PFL message board.

Valpofanzone.com has an outdated/dead link to the board.  Here is where you'll find it now:
https://pflfan.proboards.com/

[vufan75]

So by next basketball season we might see a shield logo on the ARC floor. Let's see, who will that offend? Seems it could represent a battle or weapon of a warrior of some sort. Nope. No good.

I say go with no nickname, no mascot. Can't offend anybody that way. We will just be "The Valparaiso University". We just will have to bow out of the MVC mascot battle held over the summer I think. And if one is there get that Crusader mascot out of the Whiting, IN mascot exhibit.



Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[M]

I can't believe people are mad about a costumed character.  People calling those who were upset about the mascot snowflakes (or whatever synonym you like) and then turning around and acting like snowflakes themselves when a change happens.

[wh]

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1359903254147129344

Now I'm confused. Is "retiring the Crusader mascot over the coming months" the same as "changing the Crusader nickname?" If it is, it's certainly a strange way of saying it. The Crusader mascot and the Crusader nickname are related but different. The mascot is a symbol. There are examples where universities changed their mascot but retained their nickname.

[humbleopinion]

The timing is exactly right for the administration. An interim president makes the change, and the new president won't have to take the heat.

In terms of the teams playing under a different name? No big deal. My support has always been for the university not some logo or symbol.

[vok22]

Personally, I have no problem with the current mascot (unlike the Redskins, which definitely needed to be changed). I thought it was unique and don't think too many people (if any at all) took personal offense to it. That being said, the argument that there are many types of Crusaders, not just the ones who participated in the actual Crusades, is a stretch at best. The word exists because of the Crusades, not the other way around. Overall, I personally wouldn't have voted to get rid of the mascot, but was the President just supposed to ignore the resounding student and faculty senate votes? I believe the votes were something like 20-2 and 22-0 in the student and faculty senate. What's the point of having a student and faculty senate if the administration doesn't listen to them when there is such resounding agreement? I assume they were elected by their peers to be on the senate, so it seems pretty clear what the students and faculty want. If the representation is biased towards the "woke mob", who's fault is that for not electing less "woke'' people onto the senate? Stopping your donations over something with such little consequence is just going to hurt the University more. So if you want VU to go out of business (and no more VU basketball) in 10 years, go ahead and stop donating, but you're only hurting yourself and your school. This is being blown way out of proportion.

[Pgmado]

Unfortunately, this means that I will probably stop giving to the university going forward.  No final decision, but in the near future, I am not happy with this move, and won't give my usual February donation with company match.  Especially including the far left Student Body President, as if it is some type of huge win for her, it does not align with my viewpoints.  I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning.  Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word.  As others have said, you can be a Crusader for justice, or various other positive aspects.  Very disappointing.

ValpoTX, I just want to make this one point. This conversation was raging when we were students at Valpo. There were forums and discussions and chalkings and people were strongly opposed to the nickname 20 years ago. To label this as something that is just a problem with "woke" culture at colleges today (I know you didn't label this to colleges, but I've seen many others do so), it ignores the fact that the Valparaiso community has been talking about doing this for decades.

[may know]

You can't script the self-unawareness of M ripping others for being "mad about a costumed character" when the whole cause of this situation is....others being "mad about a costumer costumed character".

So either you're upset with both sides being "mad about a costumed character" or your view is hypocritical. So far, your posts have only attacked one side when, logically, that specific gripe would apply to both.

[valpopal]

This from a sports reporter:


[tweet]1359968399397429255[/tweet]

[valpotx]

I can't believe people are mad about a costumed character.  People calling those who were upset about the mascot snowflakes (or whatever synonym you like) and then turning around and acting like snowflakes themselves when a change happens.

Your comment would also apply to the folks that are mad about the current mascot.  Can you also not believe that people are mad about the current mascot?

[JBC1824]

You can't script the self-unawareness of M ripping others for being "mad about a costumed character" when the whole cause of this situation is....others being "mad about a costumer costumed character".

So either you're upset with both sides being "mad about a costumed character" or your view is hypocritical. So far, your posts have only attacked one side when, logically, that specific gripe would apply to both.

So freakin' true. Some ppl are so stupid it's incredible.

[valpopal]

Since the university is erasing the name Crusader and asking that news and sports reporters no longer use the name, does this mean those wearing Crusader shirts to future games will be barred or shamed? Are the many members of this list who use "crusader" as part of their id going to be required to change those names? Should we change the title of this thread to "********* Retired."  [partially sarcastic]

[valpotx]

Personally, I have no problem with the current mascot (unlike the Redskins, which definitely needed to be changed). I thought it was unique and don't think too many people (if any at all) took personal offense to it. That being said, the argument that there are many types of Crusaders, not just the ones who participated in the actual Crusades, is a stretch at best. The word exists because of the Crusades, not the other way around. Overall, I personally wouldn't have voted to get rid of the mascot, but was the President just supposed to ignore the resounding student and faculty senate votes? I believe the votes were something like 20-2 and 22-0 in the student and faculty senate. What's the point of having a student and faculty senate if the administration doesn't listen to them when there is such resounding agreement? I assume they were elected by their peers to be on the senate, so it seems pretty clear what the students and faculty want. If the representation is biased towards the "woke mob", who's fault is that for not electing less "woke'' people onto the senate? Stopping your donations over something with such little consequence is just going to hurt the University more. So if you want VU to go out of business (and no more VU basketball) in 10 years, go ahead and stop donating, but you're only hurting yourself and your school. This is being blown way out of proportion.

I support the school that I attended, at the time that I attended.  Much as if an association I am providing donations, changes their branding or viewpoints, I get to reassess where my money goes.  If I view an organization as catering to more of a far left viewpoint on societal issues, I am not keen to send my money to that association.  I am right of center, not far right (did not vote for Trump or Biden, but rather third party in the last 2 presidential elections), and am married to a Liberal, but I do not support this over sensationalism of vocabulary that is being brought forth by the further left crowd.  I don't have to support my university for perpetuity, just because I graduated from the institution. 

[valpotx]

Unfortunately, this means that I will probably stop giving to the university going forward.  No final decision, but in the near future, I am not happy with this move, and won't give my usual February donation with company match.  Especially including the far left Student Body President, as if it is some type of huge win for her, it does not align with my viewpoints.  I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning.  Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word.  As others have said, you can be a Crusader for justice, or various other positive aspects.  Very disappointing.

ValpoTX, I just want to make this one point. This conversation was raging when we were students at Valpo. There were forums and discussions and chalkings and people were strongly opposed to the nickname 20 years ago. To label this as something that is just a problem with "woke" culture at colleges today (I know you didn't label this to colleges, but I've seen many others do so), it ignores the fact that the Valparaiso community has been talking about doing this for decades.

I fully realize, based on Facebook posts, that we are on different sides of this issue.  I respect your opinion, and those other folks that have similar opinions.  I just don't share it.  The conversation would happen when we were in school, and we took a similar survey, but it has always been a vocal minority.  The word Crusader is not inherently offensive.  I am not religious.  The Crusades were not just against folks of Muslim/Islamic faith, but rather could be anyone that wasn't Christian/Catholic.  I have never been offended by the Crusader nickname, as a non-believer, who would have been persecuted back in the Middle Ages. 

[Valpofamfan]

After giving this a little more thought, my guess is that the ultimate decision was driven by feedback from the university's major donors. The reality is that they would never do this without the support of most (if not all) of the major donors. Releasing the survey detail would be a more effective way of being transparent, but the big money is what drives (or limits) decision-making.

I would actually suggest the opposite- that major donors tend to be those strongly tied to the Lutheran tradition who would likely view the crusader mascot as representing Christian values (strong sense of vocation and purpose, contending for faith, and then related to athletics a general competitive fighting spirit) and not religious oppression. The faculty and student senates made it very clear they supported a change and I don't see how the taskforce could have dismissed that.

Alumni are the ones who give to the university and it seems from the vague survey allusions that those urging the crusader's retirement were not a majority.  So, I don't see how this decision could have been driven by a desire to dincrease giving. It would be interesting to hear current student-athletes' thoughts on the matter because they're the only ones who really personally experience the crusader nickname.

I hope the new name can keep the shield so we don't have to totally rebrand and stay distinctive. On another note we can probably keep the fight song by just changing the word 'crusader' to whatever the new mascot is 👍

[vu84v2]

I did not mean to imply that the name change was intended to increase giving, but rather way stating that they probably made sure that it would not significantly decrease giving. The decision to change the mascot/nickname had the potential to be volatile, so I would assume they contacted the major donors (those who average over $100K per year - plus those who target large sums from the estate) and told them what was being considered. If more than a few came back and said, "we don't agree and we won't give money if you change it", then they would not change. Only if most or all say that they are in favor of the change or are indifferent would they change the name.

[M]

I think both are silly. Haven't attacked anyone. I just want to be able to watch Valpo play in person again, doesn't matter what character is on the helmet/uniform/whatever.

[Valpo2010]

Front page of ESPN.com

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30882084/valparaiso-dropping-crusaders-name-mascot-logos

[valpotx]

We are lucky that there doesn't appear to be a Comments section tied to that portion of the link.  We would get thrashed.

[IndyValpo]

Change it to a name unused across Division 1. That's all I ask. A name that stands out and gives us our own identity.


No Tigers, Eagles, Hawks, Jaguars, Bulldogs, Lions, Bears, Panthers, Wildcats, etc.

Agreed I am going with the Vultures

[vuny98]

We are lucky that there doesn't appear to be a Comments section tied to that portion of the link.  We would get thrashed.

ESPN has done away with comments section I believe. Most of the articles with a certain spin on them were getting trashed pretty regularly. Many other sites have done the same. Much like the results of the survey, you can pretend unpopular ideas are well accepted if you don't show the opposition.

[IndyValpo]

All press is good press right? Not since the the sweet sixteen has Valpo been getting this much press.

Personally i wouldn't change but I also don't really care. I have my Crusader bobble head sitting in my office and he will stay.

[sfnmman]

I never got that excited either way for or against the crusader mascot.  In the survey, I suggested that they stress the positive aspects of crusading for something such as truth, justice or some worthwhile cause and get rid of the goofy looking image.  Obviously, there are those that see it as a negative symbol.  If some hate groups use the term for their newsletter, that's just the more reason to find something else.  Those that mention that they will withdraw their support for the university because of this decision, I would think that their support is based on a weak justification.  There are many more positive attributes of the university and its mission that will live on and are worthy of support.  Such a change in the mascot is really low on the scale of priorities.

[oklahomamick]

I was not tied to it, but I hate succumbing to woke people.

[oklahomamick]

Vu making it difficult for me....

1.  They cut the sport I played at Valpo
2.  Change the mascot
3.  Proud hoops program hasn't finished in the top half of the league since 2017

Tough to recognize the school I graduated from.  Guess that's life.