Crusaders Retired

[vu72]

I've got it!  Seriously, why not change the name to then "Golden Knights"?  Central Florida are the Black Knights I think and Rutgers also are Knights.  Nothing needs to change, we could even keep the current mascot uniform.  Could it possibly be that simple?

UCF was the Golden Knights until about 15 years ago when they dropped the Golden. Army is still the Black Knights I think.

The Vegas hockey team is the Golden Knights.  It is perfect!  And don't even think about changing the colors.  It is part of our history--look it up as to why thy are our colors-- and beyond that they are unique.  Nevada, Lehigh and St Bonnie for sure but probably others.  The brown uniforms are killer.  What the heck do you want? Maybe the Blue and White bulldogs? 

[usc4valpo]

How about the Knights that Say "Née" and have a shrubbery in the backdrop of the basketball court, and Lottich can flop his herring at the refs?

[valpopal]

Extremely disappointed and embarrassed to see the University give in to this.  This nickname change has no just cause to anyone outside the tiny fraction of population inclined to fixate on any remotely possible offense (and then those individuals who, once the idea is planted, jump on board via power of suggestion and/or fear of insensitivity).

Transparency of the survey results doesn't matter since the approach was obviously biased and had nothing to do with generating serious insights.

The fact that such a significant decision was levied a mere month after distributing the survey -- and preposterously worse, carried out by an Interim University President during a fleeting 7 month temporary stint (and just 2 weeks before officially transitioning to the President-Elect!?) -- just adds to the dirty pool and cowardice.

But overall, it's a principle thing for me.  A major action like this, done purely for political correctness, represents a critical incongruence between the institution's values/views/priorities and my own.  The writing's on the wall now more than ever.  So, I'll no longer be donating to VU.  I'm not helping pay for this nickname change and supporting the misguided leadership behind it.

I agree, and the real problem with this issue that I have heard from many goes beyond the actual mascot. What is more hurtful or damaging for VU fans and alumni is the process that has not been perceived as honest or transparent at any point. For years the university has worked behind the scenes toward removal of the Crusader but denied they were doing so. When its image began disappearing from banners, websites, uniforms, facilities, communiques, and elsewhere, the university disputed any intent to dispose of the Crusader. When the popular inflatable Crusader was removed from the ARC, a phony story about it wearing out was offered to fans as the reason. The survey that gave cover to this week's action was a push poll with biased wording toward a predetermined outcome that asked respondents to choose between being "a Valpo person" or "a Crusader," and when it was distributed a number of alums did not receive it, including former athletes. Nevertheless, the results remained secret and no comprehensive study was conducted or revealed because it was just for show. Despite the ongoing transitional presence of Heckler and the named new president already on board, the decision was announced just a couple weeks before her leaving by an interim president, who looked like she was speaking in a hostage video and was accompanied by a student who is a political activist and pushed for the removal of the crusader. At no stage of the process were alumni and fans treated with respect and given transparency. The mascot may be changed but unfortunately the harm to university relations with many fans and alumni will linger.   

[valpopal]

This from a sports reporter:


[tweet]1359968399397429255[/tweet]

I can't wait until the next televised home game when the players run back and forth across the Crusader logo at half-court yet the announcers are forbidden to say "Crusader"—it will be like the line from an old Marx Brothers movie: "Well, who ya gonna believe, me or your own eyes?"

Check the current story at the Athletics website announcing wins by the bowling team. The article purposely avoids mentioning any use of the term "Crusader"; the team is referenced as "the Brown and Gold" instead, although the host team is identified by their nickname, "the Flyers." However, the accompanying photo shows the VU bowlers, who obviously haven't received new uniforms, wearing large images of the Crusader on their jerseys.
https://www.valpoathletics.com/wbowling/news/2020-21/20166/bowling-earns-trio-of-wins-on-first-day-at-flyer-classic/


Oops! 

[wh]

BTW, if the change makes it more likely that fifteen full-pay students choose Valpo, that would cover any cost.

The university is bleeding red and only a week ago started a fundraising campaign for an athletic department that is bleeding red. Student enrollment at traditional 4 year Midwest universities is in a tailspin.  If any actual data existed to support that "the Crusader" is alienating prospective students, it would have been presented right up front in all caps. Obviously, that's not the case. Thus, if it hasn't cause a decline in students, changing it won't generate an increase.

Responsible organizations in a declining market don't theorize break even scenarios based on illogical best case scenarios.

[valpotx]

Extremely disappointed and embarrassed to see the University give in to this.  This nickname change has no just cause to anyone outside the tiny fraction of population inclined to fixate on any remotely possible offense (and then those individuals who, once the idea is planted, jump on board via power of suggestion and/or fear of insensitivity).

Transparency of the survey results doesn't matter since the approach was obviously biased and had nothing to do with generating serious insights.

The fact that such a significant decision was levied a mere month after distributing the survey -- and preposterously worse, carried out by an Interim University President during a fleeting 7 month temporary stint (and just 2 weeks before officially transitioning to the President-Elect!?) -- just adds to the dirty pool and cowardice.

But overall, it's a principle thing for me.  A major action like this, done purely for political correctness, represents a critical incongruence between the institution's values/views/priorities and my own.  The writing's on the wall now more than ever.  So, I'll no longer be donating to VU.  I'm not helping pay for this nickname change and supporting the misguided leadership behind it.

I agree, and the real problem with this issue that I have heard from many goes beyond the actual mascot. What is more hurtful or damaging for VU fans and alumni is the process that has not been perceived as honest or transparent at any point. For years the university has worked behind the scenes toward removal of the Crusader but denied they were doing so. When its image began disappearing from banners, websites, uniforms, facilities, communiques, and elsewhere, the university disputed any intent to dispose of the Crusader. When the popular inflatable Crusader was removed from the ARC, a phony story about it wearing out was offered to fans as the reason. The survey that gave cover to this week's action was a push poll with biased wording toward a predetermined outcome that asked respondents to choose between being "a Valpo person" or "a Crusader," and when it was distributed a number of alums did not receive it, including former athletes. Nevertheless, the results remained secret and no comprehensive study was conducted or revealed because it was just for show. Despite the ongoing transitional presence of Heckler and the named new president already on board, the decision was announced just a couple weeks before her leaving by an interim president, who looked like she was speaking in a hostage video and was accompanied by a student who is a political activist and pushed for the removal of the crusader. At no stage of the process were alumni and fans treated with respect and given transparency. The mascot may be changed but unfortunately the harm to university relations with many fans and alumni will linger.   

Exactly, including the political activist SBP only hurt the process/announcement more, in my eyes.  If she was not included in an actual video snippet, alongside our Interim President, to parrot her leftist agenda, I would not be so bothered.  If they just wanted to indicate the student support behind the decision, great, put out a general statement of support from her in the news release.  Tying it in the way that they did to give her a prominent spot in the announcement to comment on it being 'offensive,' makes it seem like we are trying to become Loyola (IL), and kowtowing to the KKK, letting them own a word.

[valpo95]

I think we all could see the writing on the wall that the days of the Crusader mascot were numbered - so much had been going that way already. It also was likely to happen in the presidential transition - unpopular changes like this happen under an interim or outgoing president and give the new president the ability to set a new course.

Because the Crusader imagery had already been limited, the costs to the university are much less. Of course there is the logo on the basketball court, yet that will change in time. I'd guess that the Valpo shield will be retained, possibly well into the future depending on the nature of the new mascot. Even then, the V with the flame could stay around.

A few additional points:

1) Our identity as a university is mostly in Valpo or Valparaiso U.  in In the day and age in which we live, like it or not, the name "Crusader" brings with it baggage on the part of the audience that is not necessary. Use and understanding of the word and imagery has changed over decades, and that is not a fault or blame of the University or even those who like the logo.

2) I strongly object to the "woke-ish" explanations that suggest the past choice of using Crusader was somehow done with intent to marginalize or to endorse violence. As has been pointed out many times, there are many positive expressions of being a crusader that have nothing to do with the crusades.

3) The so-called survey was clumsily designed with intent for one outcome, and the interim President should have more carefully checked that out before she allowed it to go out. That is why the University now has to be evasive with the results. In a benign context, it seems like alumni are far more likely to identify with Purdue vs. Boilermaker, or Duke vs. Blue Devil, or a host of similar comparisons. (I tried to think of a different example, and the closest one might be Indiana vs. Hoosiers but the latter is tied up to the nickname of the state.) So, we need to accept that the survey was flawed yet it got the desired result.

4)  It would be great for all who may speak on behalf of the University to be more sympathetic to the Crusader history. They can be supportive of the legacy by recognizing and embracing the positive expressions of being a crusader, and understanding of those who have an affinity for the nickname. They also can acknowledge how use of the word has changed. They also can show more excitement for the future.

[oklahomamick]

I never received a survey.  Also never received anything when they were canceling the men's soccer program.  I also donate every year.....well until this year.

[valpotx]

I never received a survey.  Also never received anything when they were canceling the men's soccer program.  I also donate every year.....well until this year.

Interesting.  I keep seeing/hearing this from other athletes, and also did not receive it on my end, but receive all other Valpo communications without issue. 

[covufan]

I think Valparaiso lost an opportunity to migrate from the perception of The Crusades to the more generalized crusaders (campaigns vigorously for) political, social, and religious change. The latter directly ties into Christian (Lutheran) reform. If these anti-Crusaders mascot discussions have been on campus for more than 20 years, the Valparaiso Administration really missed the opportunity to change the narrative. But, what can you expect from an administration that misplaced a whole law school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[a3uge]

I never received a survey.  Also never received anything when they were canceling the men's soccer program.  I also donate every year.....well until this year.

Interesting.  I keep seeing/hearing this from other athletes, and also did not receive it on my end, but receive all other Valpo communications without issue.

I'm fascinated as to who Dakich's source is here. I'd like to think that I know of most of the "most popular alumni," and I can't come up with who is on that list that would be married to another athlete from VU. I've been trying to wrap my head around this all day and I just can't come up with it.

Aren't you a reporter? Why are you asking us?

Oh, I've been trying to figure it out all day. Reporters look everywhere. Even message boards.

Found some alumni that didn't receive a survey. But I understand it's hard to find good sources on a fan message board.

[JD24]

Extremely disappointed and embarrassed to see the University give in to this.  This nickname change has no just cause to anyone outside the tiny fraction of population inclined to fixate on any remotely possible offense (and then those individuals who, once the idea is planted, jump on board via power of suggestion and/or fear of insensitivity). Transparency of the survey results doesn't matter since the approach was obviously biased and had nothing to do with generating serious insights. The fact that such a significant decision was levied a mere month after distributing the survey -- and preposterously worse, carried out by an Interim University President during a fleeting 7 month temporary stint (and just 2 weeks before officially transitioning to the President-Elect!?) -- just adds to the dirty pool and cowardice. But overall, it's a principle thing for me.  A major action like this, done purely for political correctness, represents a critical incongruence between the institution's values/views/priorities and my own.  The writing's on the wall now more than ever.  So, I'll no longer be donating to VU.  I'm not helping pay for this nickname change and supporting the misguided leadership behind it.

I agree, and the real problem with this issue that I have heard from many goes beyond the actual mascot. What is more hurtful or damaging for VU fans and alumni is the process that has not been perceived as honest or transparent at any point. For years the university has worked behind the scenes toward removal of the Crusader but denied they were doing so. When its image began disappearing from banners, websites, uniforms, facilities, communiques, and elsewhere, the university disputed any intent to dispose of the Crusader. When the popular inflatable Crusader was removed from the ARC, a phony story about it wearing out was offered to fans as the reason. The survey that gave cover to this week's action was a push poll with biased wording toward a predetermined outcome that asked respondents to choose between being "a Valpo person" or "a Crusader," and when it was distributed a number of alums did not receive it, including former athletes. Nevertheless, the results remained secret and no comprehensive study was conducted or revealed because it was just for show. Despite the ongoing transitional presence of Heckler and the named new president already on board, the decision was announced just a couple weeks before her leaving by an interim president, who looked like she was speaking in a hostage video and was accompanied by a student who is a political activist and pushed for the removal of the crusader. At no stage of the process were alumni and fans treated with respect and given transparency. The mascot may be changed but unfortunately the harm to university relations with many fans and alumni will linger.

Exactly, including the political activist SBP only hurt the process/announcement more, in my eyes.  If she was not included in an actual video snippet, alongside our Interim President, to parrot her leftist agenda, I would not be so bothered.  If they just wanted to indicate the student support behind the decision, great, put out a general statement of support from her in the news release.  Tying it in the way that they did to give her a prominent spot in the announcement to comment on it being 'offensive,' makes it seem like we are trying to become Loyola (IL), and kowtowing to the KKK, letting them own a word.

This is the one part of the changeover which I found annoying. I don't care if the name is changed or not but having this twit featured shouldn't have happened.

[valpopal]

Kudos to Paul for posting this on twitter. I recommend everyone read the linked thread of thoughtful reflections by former VU athlete Kyle Padgett, especially where he explains: "For me this is not about losing the mascot...it is about the lack of representation, the lack of transparency, and the lack of respect for those that bore the Crusader name for those 80+ years...."


[tweet]1360694066007179266[/tweet]

[valpotx]

100x yes.  If you had the name on the chest while representing the university, it gives you a much different perspective versus someone who has probably never attended a Valpo sporting event. 

I know that PO listed a genuine question on his Facebook page around what folks are thinking, and is receiving some positive feedback from his friends that both attended and did not attend Valpo, but my network of Facebook friends, that includes a large amount of former Valpo athletes, is very much having the opposite response.  I would have chimed in to PO's question, but you can tell that he has some friends that are what I would consider 'social justice Crusaders'  , so folks like me just don't want to opine and get chastised for having a differing view, as a VU alum has already received on that thread.   

[may know]

Yeah, people are going to be hesitant to defend the Crusaders on that FB thread. I was reading about our situation on other boards affiliated with other teams, and in a few cases people who supported the Crusader were called racist, old white man, "outing themselves", etc. It's tough waters to dive in if that's the feedback you're going to get.

[cmack]

We live in a society where there is an easy solution to any outcome we don't like.   Just claim a deep state conspiracy and get indignant.  And most importantly, assume that EVERYONE must feel the same way you and your circle feels.  Any divergent thought is impossible to fathom.

[robg89]

The  times is looking for replies from athletes, we need to stop these liberals and the get decision reversed.
Email Aaron.ferguson@nwi.com

[hailcrusaders]

Humbleopinion - when Stephen F. Austin State University hired a marketing company to change their logo, it cost 1.6 million dollars. After expenses, you would have to have a delta of more like 50 students going 4 years to cover on this expense. Improve the overall quality and experience of the university and the finances, enrollment and status will improve. Changing the mascot name will have negligible impact in the near and long term. Valparaiso is not focused on the right issues.

Heard similar things about Virginia Tech and U. South Florida. I understand that branding is important in a day and age where competition for enrollment and tuition $$$ is absolutely fierce, but you'd have a real hard time convincing me that any rebrand is actually worth the six or seven digit amounts that get spent on it. Just another example of absurd expenditures that drive up the cost of tuition to record levels.

[valpo64]

As I have said before, THIS WHOLE THING STINKS...starting with the very top of the University administration.  Very disappointing in the manner this was handled.  And to think how many people have been offended...doesn't it really want to make you cry?  Poor babies.  SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH THESE  DO GOODERS AND SELF-RIGHTOUS PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL Valpo administration!

[valpopal]

An interesting note that bookends this week's video presentation by Interim President Colette Irwin-Knott, when President O.P. Kretzmann announced the adoption of the Crusader as a VU nickname in 1942, he made an official statement, which can be found quoted in the January 22, 1942 Torch: "The term Crusader... is, I believe, an excellent choice. It connotes the courage and devotion to ideals for which the University stands. In addition, it is a constant reminder to the public that Valparaiso University is proud of its religious background."

[bbtds]

I propose the German mythical bird, the Elwetritsch!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elwetritsch#:~:text=The%20Elwedritsch%20is%20a%20fictional,wings%20are%20of%20little%20use.

I especially like this part--

Hunt

illuminated trap for a nocturnal hunt
The idea is very similar to the "snipe hunt." The Elwetritsch is supposedly very shy, but also very curious. A hunting party consists of a "Fänger" (catcher), equipped with a big potato sack and a lantern, and the "Treiber" (beaters). The catcher is led into the woods where the Elwetritsch is supposed to live, instructed to wait in a clearing with his sack and lantern, while the beaters go off, supposedly to flush out the Elwetritsch. The light of the lantern is said to be attractive to the curious creature, so it will come to investigate and will then be caught by the catcher. While he waits, everyone heads back to the pub or wherever the party had previously assembled, to wait for the catcher to realize that he has been fooled.[3]

Like the jackalope, the Elwetritsch is thought to have been inspired by sightings of wild rabbits infected with the Shope papilloma virus, which causes the growth of antler-like tumours in various places, including on the head.


 








From a German website:

Elwedritsche like to hide in the undergrowth of parks, forest soils and vines. The catcher, armed with a jutesack and a barn lantern, stands at a pre-arranged location. To camouflage the human smell, he has a Rieslingschorle with him. The Elwetritschen do not like the human smell at all and therefore keep away from humans. The drivers form a large circle and chase the persecuted Elwedritsch towards the sack of the catcher. The Elwetritschen are to be attracted by loud 'Tritsch' and the beating of sticks against trees and vines. (it should be clear that such a mythical creature has never been caught before). The catcher must then try with Gurr and Courtzrufen ('Uiuiui... Tritsch, tritsch') to lure the Elwedritsche into the sack.

[NativeCheesehead]

I like telling the students to "suck it up" followed by all caps keyboard yelling. Irony has truly been a casualty of the pandemic.

[usc4valpo]

I wonder if Valpo is going to hire this dude...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vptf74k7AGE

[bbtds]

I found it interesting that in the Times photo section  on the website was this caption under a pic of Brian Wardle: Bradley coach Brian Wardle reacts at an official's call against Valparaiso' Crusaders Wednesday night at the ARC.

John Luke, The Times

Habits are hard to break. Of course this was most likely posted Wednesday night and the announcement about the mascot was made on Thursday morning.

[valpotx]

We live in a society where there is an easy solution to any outcome we don't like.   Just claim a deep state conspiracy and get indignant.  And most importantly, assume that EVERYONE must feel the same way you and your circle feels.  Any divergent thought is impossible to fathom.

Your anti-Trump/anti-Republican stance is noted, but you have many folks, like myself, who did not vote for him either time, that are not happy with how this went and was announced.