Crusaders Retired

[Chitwood]

I'm all for considering unique/playful names, but kernels is pretty lame, in my opinion. That's not even a fun or excitable name.

For the record, not that it's the best option, but Duneshawks is available. No one has the trademark for that currently.

I don't have a lot of great ideas, but just going to throw some out there:

Valparaiso Voyagers? – Similar in meaning to Crusaders but less offensive and is unique

Valparaiso Storm or Golden Storm? – Not really big on meteorology names, but might be in the vein of St. John's

Valparaiso Trailblazers? – It's a name that's not often used, besides Portland and a few colleges/high schools. Valpo Blazers has a nice ring to it. And, kind of references the dunes



For the record, if Golden Knights can't work, you could just go  Knights. In fact, I like it better without being proceeded with golden

[IndyValpo]

Kernels is growing on me. It is unique and relevant and the mascot is memorable. It will make a mascot top 20 or bottom 20!

I still like the Vultures.

[sfnmman]

Here's one for consideration - the Valpo tundra thunder!  All the old timers remember and braved the tundra.  "Thunder" pays homage to Valpo's great meteorology academics and alumni (and nasty weather).  Just a thought.

[valpo95]

It has been said before, yet the Valparaiso "Lake Effect" could be an option. It is unique, region-specific, and is unlikely to offend. 

[VUSERF]

What about simply the Valpo Shield 🛡. 

This would capitalize on the unique aspects of the VU shield of character. What would be unique as well is that the student body and the mascot could be "shield bearers" (Macedonian warriors). We could have more of a living mascot like the Leprechaun or the USC Trojan but a shield bearer. This mascot could also easily allow for us to have both a male and female shield bearer (dressed as Macedonian shield bearers).

Additionally, as graduates we are all 'armed' with the shield of character and continue to be shield bearers after graduation (like many of us considered ourselves crusaders after graduation).

I don't know if the image attached properly but Google Macedonian shield bearer to see a picture of the mascot.

[valpotx]

How about the Valparaiso Chilly?  Let's see if anyone will put that together

[NativeCheesehead]

Then the ARC can be renamed the Chilly Bowl. 

[vuny98]

It's my subtle hope that we choose a name that is even more offensive for the pure absurdity of it all.

Maybe we can pair our primary school color Brown with another word. Skins, Shirts?
Or Gold with Diggers?

Or lets go a different route. We can be the Cara Dune's. Or the Grand Cherokees.

Last but not least, maybe the Mr. Potato Heads or Aunt Jemima's.

I'm not a huge fan of Kernels. Plus it's only a matter of time before an old Tweet by Orville Redenbacher surfaces that paints him in a negative light and thus our name being an association to him is called into question. (/s)

[Just Sayin]

The University should change the mascot name to either:

The Valparaiso University Poltroons,

OR

The Valparaiso University Cravens.

BECAUSE

The people who run the university shamelessly caved to:

Political Correctness

AND

The Spirit of the Age

What wusses!

[vuny98]

The University should change the mascot name to either: The Valparaiso University Poltroons, OR The Valparaiso University Cravens. BECAUSE The people who run the university shamelessly caved to: Political Correctness AND The Spirit of the Age What wusses!

I have no problem with Universities/Pro teams changing team names in general, when it makes sense. I for one, personally, did not find anything offensive about team names like the Redskins or Indians, but I understand that many did and over time that sentiment grew. So for those teams, it probably made sense.

For the Crusaders though, my personal view is that Crusaders not only was not offensive, but rather had very positive connotations to it. I would also wager that the majority of people did not find it offensive (assumption, nothing to back that up). That's where my problem for this whole situation comes into play. Everyone has a right to feel however they do. If you are offended by something, you have the right to feel that way. But we can't just go around changing everything in our society because someone is offended, because anything can offend anyone at anytime.

Now if the University would release the survey that shows 40%, 50%, 70% thought that the Crusader name was offensive, that would tell me, yes its critical mass and it may make sense to back away from it. But what if it was only 5% or 10%. Do we still change it? In today's society, unfortunately that answer is yes. As we are seeing with Uncle Bens Rice, Aunt Jemima, Land O Lakes butter and maybe the Jeep Cherokee next, things that I would argue the vast majority of people have zero issue with is now under attack and companies are caving to a small minority of people that have issue with it. The model for Aunt Jemima's family is upset that they are taking her off the box. They weren't offended, they were proud. Having a strong black woman as your brand image isn't racist, its the anesthetist of it. But, rather than stand up and say that, companies take the easy road and cave least they have any negative press. But what they don't see is the silent majority, that won't throw a fit on Twitter, that no longer connect with your brand.

That's what I worry about with Valpo. We could have stood strong and said here is what being a Crusader means to us, but we caved. And not only did we cave, we caved using the weakest possible excuse - Some hate groups use the term Crusader (I am highly suspect that this is actually the case in any widespread manner other than a few one off examples, but I will go with it for the sake of argument). With this excuse, we are giving power to hate groups to control how we view the world and what words/symbols mean. Whats to stop Neo-Nazi's, the KKK or just internet trolls from claiming anything is associated with hate groups. They already did it with the OK hand symbol. I was hoping my school would be the one to stand up to it, but we were not. Maybe it was the right call, maybe it wasn't a battle worth fighting. Or maybe I am the minority and just in my own bubble and don't realize the anti crusader sentiment is actually massive.

In the end, I will still support Valpo (and still call them the Crusaders under my breath). I hope we can choose a new name that can bring us back together. In time it will just be a memory. But there is a sour taste left in my mouth after all of this and I fear its a similar feeling many people have these days. Not just at Valpo, but across this country. In isolation, these changes are small. But they are building in numbers and becoming more frequent. Where will it end and what will happen when we reach the breaking point?

[JD24]

The University should change the mascot name to either: The Valparaiso University Poltroons, OR The Valparaiso University Cravens. BECAUSE The people who run the university shamelessly caved to: Political Correctness AND The Spirit of the Age What wusses!

I have no problem with Universities/Pro teams changing team names in general, when it makes sense. I for one, personally, did not find anything offensive about team names like the Redskins or Indians, but I understand that many did and over time that sentiment grew. 

A vast majority polled would probably chosen not to change the WFT name given the choice. That doesn't mean it wasn't correct to change the name.

[vuny98]

The University should change the mascot name to either: The Valparaiso University Poltroons, OR The Valparaiso University Cravens. BECAUSE The people who run the university shamelessly caved to: Political Correctness AND The Spirit of the Age What wusses!

I have no problem with Universities/Pro teams changing team names in general, when it makes sense. I for one, personally, did not find anything offensive about team names like the Redskins or Indians, but I understand that many did and over time that sentiment grew. 

A vast majority polled would probably chosen not to change the WFT name given the choice. That doesn't mean it wasn't correct to change the name.

I never said it wasn't correct. Actually said it was probably the right choice. And I will give you this, if a minority group universally feels offended by something, then yes they should be accommodated in most cases (as long as accommodating doesn't trample the rights of others in return) even if the vast majority is not offended by it.


But even for the Redskins, I remember seeing a poll amongst Native American tribes a few years back where many were not offended (I don't remember the stats off hand but I believe it was more than half). Furthermore many Native American tribes liked the name and many Native American reservation high schools used that as their mascot as well. So if we can't even get the majority of the group that should be offended by something to say they are, then what are we doing other than appeasing the loudest voices.

[rogerwilco]

The Drewsaders

[vu84v2]

People talk about changes being made because of wokeness or whatever. But this student offers a very thoughtful and detailed perspective on the challenges of being a muslim at Valparaiso, seeing the good – but also seeing that change is needed. I do not think that this student is suggesting that changing the mascot solves these greater issues (though he hopes it serves as a catalyst), but I do think that we need to look deeper and recognize that this is not just about being woke or an extension of cancel culture.

http://www.valpotorch.com/opinion/article_1262483a-77e5-11eb-bc5d-0f5ff03de310.html

[vuny98]

People talk about changes being made because of wokeness or whatever. But this student offers a very thoughtful and detailed perspective on the challenges of being a muslim at Valparaiso, seeing the good – but also seeing that change is needed. I do not think that this student is suggesting that changing the mascot solves these greater issues (though he hopes it serves as a catalyst), but I do think that we need to look deeper and recognize that this is not just about being woke or an extension of cancel culture. http://www.valpotorch.com/opinion/article_1262483a-77e5-11eb-bc5d-0f5ff03de310.html

First off, if what the student described is true, some of those things he endured are horrific. But from my perspective, this is a perfect example of Wokeness and cancel culture.

A student or group feels oppressed, so let's make false equivalencies and target anything and everything that can possibly associated with that oppression. What he describes in the letter are horrible acts from assh...s, whether done so out of ignorance or malice, they are unacceptable. Some seem like they could be misunderstandings, but things like the alcohol/pork are particularly bad. But he takes those incidents and makes a statement of fact that the Crusader is "a symbol of religious intolerance and oppression". What he endured and the mascot of the University are not related in my view. I understand the desire to equate them, but I don't see it.

Now I clearly as evident by my previous posts was not in favor of changing the Crusader, but I could have been brought on board. "Infrequent are the times when universities have a chance to institute meaningful and good change in their campus-wide culture". By pushing through a decision, without real debate/discussion, we have already wasted that opportunity. We as a University could have talked and come to a shared collective view. It wouldn't have been easy, it may never have gotten all the way there, but we could have understood where people were coming from. Why people like me really resonated with "The Crusader". How I have zero room in my heart for Islamophobia/racism, and see that part of me fitting in perfect with what a Crusader means to me. But instead we get letters like this to show a single view point that we can point to and say, "see here is why we need to remove the Crusader". Or "look, here is a tweet from 3 years ago of someone at an event that a white supremacist was at that was dressed like a Crusader. Also did you know someone at the Capitol said they were a Crusader." Well, thats enough proof for me, lets change the name.

It was a rushed decision, and like the student says in his letter, lets not pretend "changing our mascot solves campus-wide racism". Both sides, me included, can do better at listening to others perspectives. I appreciate this students story. I just wish it happened as part of the overall decision and not after the fact.

[johnu1]

I agree with you on the premise here but I'm not sure the rush to change the mascot/image was entirely driven by that, though it is currently trendy to claim as much. I think it's about money, mostly money, new money, new markets ... dumping the mascot makes for good theater.

I agree that one single voice from a person who asserts these events occurred without corroboration ... it smells like the whole of a university is being swept under the bus because the majority not only tolerates these abuses but apparently isn't willing to step up to change it.

"So we'll do it for them."

I am still trying to understand what "wokeness" actually means, since it's not a word.

[wh]

People talk about changes being made because of wokeness or whatever. But this student offers a very thoughtful and detailed perspective on the challenges of being a muslim at Valparaiso, seeing the good – but also seeing that change is needed. I do not think that this student is suggesting that changing the mascot solves these greater issues (though he hopes it serves as a catalyst), but I do think that we need to look deeper and recognize that this is not just about being woke or an extension of cancel culture.

http://www.valpotorch.com/opinion/article_1262483a-77e5-11eb-bc5d-0f5ff03de310.html

These are serious, albeit unsubstantiated, claims by a Muslim student of repeated bullying, intimidation, and discrimination that paint Valparaiso University in a very bad light.

It also raises more questions than answers. Here's a few off the top of my head:
• We have no idea whether these allegations have any basis in fact.
• The student talks about how intimidating it is to tell someone, yet writes a letter to the editor citing specific details and signs his name to it. Im not sure that sounds like someone afraid to take this to the proper authorities. Not passing judgment. Just an observation.
• So, that raises other questions, like did he inform his RA or other "Responsible Employee? Did the Responsible Employee" report said incident(s) to the Valpo Office of Civil Rights, as required (see below)?
• Was a formal investigation conducted?
• What was the outcome?

"Responsible Employees include the following: faculty, adjunct faculty, administrators, department chairs, Discrimination Complaint Advisors (DCAs), resident assistants (RAs), and resident life and student affairs staff.

Responsible Employees must promptly report incidents of discrimination or harassment to the Valpo Office for Civil Rights. Failure to report constitutes a violation of this Policy and may subject the violator to sanctions."

If I'm interpreting this properly, any "Responsible Employee" MUST report this letter to the editor to the Office for Civil Rights. Did the faculty sponsor of The Torch report it, as he/she is required to do under the provisions of Title IX?

If this is legitimate, and again we as readers don't know, I see this as a cry for help by a student who allegedly has been repeatedly bullied in a cruel, dehumanizing way. It must be thoroughly investigated consistent with university protocols and state and federal government rules and regulations. It should be overseen by the top of the house.

One more comment - This issue has more meaning to me than our usual message board jousting (which is mostly for fun). As someone with a special needs brother who has suffered greatly from bullying over many years, I am especially sensitive to this kind of treatment. As an organization leader there is nothing I find more disturbing than workplace bullying and sexual harassment. It's even more important in school, when students are at such a tender age. Everyone needs to feel wanted and accepted. It is a basic human right that should be protected at all costs.

Ok, back to the mascot scrimmage. 

[valpotx]

People talk about changes being made because of wokeness or whatever. But this student offers a very thoughtful and detailed perspective on the challenges of being a muslim at Valparaiso, seeing the good – but also seeing that change is needed. I do not think that this student is suggesting that changing the mascot solves these greater issues (though he hopes it serves as a catalyst), but I do think that we need to look deeper and recognize that this is not just about being woke or an extension of cancel culture.

http://www.valpotorch.com/opinion/article_1262483a-77e5-11eb-bc5d-0f5ff03de310.html

I agree with a few other posters tied to this topic.  What this student attests to happening during his Valpo experience is absolutely terrible.  Rather than focusing on changing a mascot, the university should have been/should be investigating these types of allegations, as they contribute much more to Islamophobia than a simple Crusader mascot.  It seems Gen Z is not as completely woke as they claim to be, if this crap is still happening on campus.  I do have to admit my bias, and that I have a hard time with Gen Z, mainly due to the general disrespect I see in regards to how some view the older population, especially this whole, 'ok, Boomer' attitude. 

Do folks here find UT's Alma Mater offensive?  I think that UT is taking the correct approach, in studying the song's origin and historical use, and trying to 'fix' anything that might be negative, and turn it into a positive.  I think that this could have been done with mascot changes that are based on historical figures, outside of outright racist names like Redskins:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30991657/texas-president-jay-hartzell-addresses-song-controversy-says-vocal-critics-do-not-represent-values-longhorn-community

Speaking of offensive, look at this 'holy crap' statement by Creighton's coach: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30992256/creighton-bluejays-greg-mcdermott-uses-racially-insensitive-analogy-team

[Valpower]

These are serious, albeit unsubstantiated , claims by a Muslim student of repeated bullying, intimidation, and discrimination that paint Valparaiso University in a very bad light.

It also raises more questions than answers. Here's a few off the top of my head:
• We have no idea whether these allegations have any basis in fact.
• The student talks about how intimidating it is to tell someone, yet writes a letter to the editor citing specific details and signs his name to it. Im not sure that sounds like someone afraid to take this to the proper authorities. Not passing judgment. Just an observation.
• So, that raises other questions, like did he inform his RA or other "Responsible Employee? Did the Responsible Employee" report said incident(s) to the Valpo Office of Civil Rights, as required (see below)?
• Was a formal investigation conducted?
• What was the outcome?

"Responsible Employees include the following: faculty, adjunct faculty, administrators, department chairs, Discrimination Complaint Advisors (DCAs), resident assistants (RAs), and resident life and student affairs staff.

Responsible Employees must promptly report incidents of discrimination or harassment to the Valpo Office for Civil Rights. Failure to report constitutes a violation of this Policy and may subject the violator to sanctions."

If I'm interpreting this properly, any "Responsible Employee" MUST report this letter to the editor to the Office for Civil Rights. Did the faculty sponsor of The Torch report it, as he/she is required to do under the provisions of Title IX?

If this is legitimate, and again we as readers don't know, I see this as a cry for help by a student who allegedly has been repeatedly bullied in a cruel, dehumanizing way. It must be thoroughly investigated consistent with university protocols and state and federal government rules and regulations. It should be overseen by the top of the house.

One more comment - This issue has more meaning to me than our usual message board jousting (which is mostly for fun). As someone with a special needs brother who has suffered greatly from bullying over many years, I am especially sensitive to this kind of treatment. As an organization leader there is nothing I find more disturbing than workplace bullying and sexual harassment. It's even more important in school, when students are at such a tender age. Everyone needs to feel wanted and accepted. It is a basic human right that should be protected at all costs.

Ok, back to the mascot scrimmage. 

To call someone's assertion a "claim" already acknowledges that it's points have not been proven. It should have sufficed. To repeatedly remind us, whether or not the purpose of the editorial was to incontrovertibly prove he was mistreated or simply advance a point, suggests to me that you would like us know that you seriously doubt the Muslim student's experience. I get it.

Furthermore, I suppose that wondering aloud whether the student sought and received justice is meant to cast doubt on the earnestness of his claims, but all we can know from the limited-length editorial piece is that it wasn't mentioned.  I'm not sure why you have such a strong need to question the student's experience, but I suspect it comes from the idea that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. The problem, of course, is that his experience may be quite ordinary.

[bbtds]

Kernels is growing on me.

My grandmother used to tell me "you could grow potatoes in those ears." I hope you don't get corns on your feet.   

[wh]

These are serious, albeit unsubstantiated , claims by a Muslim student of repeated bullying, intimidation, and discrimination that paint Valparaiso University in a very bad light.

It also raises more questions than answers. Here's a few off the top of my head:
• We have no idea whether these allegations have any basis in fact.
• The student talks about how intimidating it is to tell someone, yet writes a letter to the editor citing specific details and signs his name to it. Im not sure that sounds like someone afraid to take this to the proper authorities. Not passing judgment. Just an observation.
• So, that raises other questions, like did he inform his RA or other "Responsible Employee? Did the Responsible Employee" report said incident(s) to the Valpo Office of Civil Rights, as required (see below)?
• Was a formal investigation conducted?
• What was the outcome?

"Responsible Employees include the following: faculty, adjunct faculty, administrators, department chairs, Discrimination Complaint Advisors (DCAs), resident assistants (RAs), and resident life and student affairs staff.

Responsible Employees must promptly report incidents of discrimination or harassment to the Valpo Office for Civil Rights. Failure to report constitutes a violation of this Policy and may subject the violator to sanctions."

If I'm interpreting this properly, any "Responsible Employee" MUST report this letter to the editor to the Office for Civil Rights. Did the faculty sponsor of The Torch report it, as he/she is required to do under the provisions of Title IX?

If this is legitimate, and again we as readers don't know, I see this as a cry for help by a student who allegedly has been repeatedly bullied in a cruel, dehumanizing way. It must be thoroughly investigated consistent with university protocols and state and federal government rules and regulations. It should be overseen by the top of the house.

One more comment - This issue has more meaning to me than our usual message board jousting (which is mostly for fun). As someone with a special needs brother who has suffered greatly from bullying over many years, I am especially sensitive to this kind of treatment. As an organization leader there is nothing I find more disturbing than workplace bullying and sexual harassment. It's even more important in school, when students are at such a tender age. Everyone needs to feel wanted and accepted. It is a basic human right that should be protected at all costs.

Ok, back to the mascot scrimmage. 

To call someone's assertion a "claim" already acknowledges that it's points have not been proven. It should have sufficed. To repeatedly remind us, whether or not the purpose of the editorial was to incontrovertibly prove he was mistreated or simply advance a point, suggests to me that you would like us know that you seriously doubt the Muslim student's experience. I get it.

Furthermore, I suppose that wondering aloud whether the student sought and received justice is meant to cast doubt on the earnestness of his claims, but all we can know from the limited-length editorial piece is that it wasn't mentioned.  I'm not sure why you have such a strong need to question the student's experience, but I suspect it comes from the idea that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. The problem, of course, is that his experience may be quite ordinary.

Here's the way the poster who referenced the article framed the students "claim:"

"People talk about changes being made because of wokeness or whatever. But this student offers a very thoughtful and detailed perspective on the challenges of being a muslim at Valparaiso."

Clearly, the poster takes for granted that these things happened. To accept this at face value is to accept that a group of religious bigots perpetrated a hate crime. Once you accept that, it's easy to assume this is a bigger problem than simply an isolated incident against 1 student. And since we have no clue who these alleged culprits are, it could be just about anyone. It's also raises suspicion that the university isn't adequately protecting its minority students. So the entire university is under indictment.

At least your snarky post helped me learn something about you. You don't work in law enforcement, HR, or management, and you were home sick the day everyone learned the legal principle "innocent until proven guilty."

[vu84v2]

As the person who posted the article and made the comment referenced above, I did not mean to imply whether the student's claim was accurate. I have no way of knowing that. The letter referenced the student's perspective and offered a lot of detail where that perspective comes from. I also did not mean to imply that a few instances mean that this type of awful bullying and racism (if it is true) is systemic. While deeply unfortunate, it is not realistic in a population of over 3000 students that every student will understand what is and is not acceptable behavior.

[valpotx]

Just received another Crusader Report email from MLB . 

[Laser]

How about the 'Saxons' ?  These were the Germans that lived around Wittenberg.  Winner winner chicken dinner. Done.

[rogerwilco]

Another Crusader mascot is going away.
https://www.columbusunderground.com/the-how-and-why-behind-capital-universitys-mascot-change-efforts-tm1