Arch Madness

[wh]

Just to remind everyone, most fans of D-1 Major conferences see the "fairness" issue completely differently than we do. I've had many 'spirited' discussions over the years with collegues and former collegues from power conference schools (mostly Big 10) about mids getting screwed in seeding, at-large bids, pod assignments, etc., etc. Frankly, they don't care. They look at mids as a group. Within that group this year are 11 teams with NET's over 100. 

(Their view) Those teams have no business even being in the tournament, except that the NCAA wants to build in cinderalla drama as part of the story line. Add another 8 Mids between 50 and 100 NET, and that's nearly 30% of the field that by rights shouldn't be playing. Now, wh, you want us to pretend that none of that happened, and support at-larges for a handful of mids that might actually belong in the tournament. How big of a bone do you want, wh? Hey, if you honestly believe you guys are getting screwed, go start your own tournament. We have to be honest, wh, you sound pretty ungrateful.

That's "their truth." 

[Just Sayin]

Yeah, embrace mediocrity.

Mediocre, perhaps like Loyola in their first five years in the much tougher MVC?

Tied for fifth in the MVC is not where anyone wants to stay, yet it is a respectable year all things considered. With the loss of JFL, did anyone expect that Valpo would win the MVC this year? Doubt it.

Yes the program failed to keep JFL.

[vuny98]

Yeah, embrace mediocrity.

Mediocre, perhaps like Loyola in their first five years in the much tougher MVC? Tied for fifth in the MVC is not where anyone wants to stay, yet it is a respectable year all things considered. With the loss of JFL, did anyone expect that Valpo would win the MVC this year? Doubt it.

Yes the program failed to keep JFL.

He had aspirations bigger than Valpo before he got here and after two years at Valpo he proved he deserved to start at a Power conference school. He always had one foot out the door. That fault is not entirely on Valpo.

Two things we can/should do moving forward.
A- Focus on our facilities. That can play a role in the decision for someone like JFL to stay or leave. Valpo's facilities suck and show an overall lack of commitment to the program.
B- Use these past transfers as a precautionary tale. JFL would have averaged over 20 pts this year and been a POY candidate in a really good mid major conference. Instead he played well, but nothing spectacular for a really bad team in a Power conference. He could have stood out, but now he's lost in the crowd. Same could be said for some of the past transfers.

[valpo95]

Two things we can/should do moving forward.
A- Focus on our facilities. That can play a role in the decision for someone like JFL to stay or leave. Valpo's facilities suck and show an overall lack of commitment to the program.
B- Use these past transfers as a precautionary tale. JFL would have averaged over 20 pts this year and been a POY candidate in a really good mid major conference. Instead he played well, but nothing spectacular for a really bad team in a Power conference. He could have stood out, but now he's lost in the crowd. Same could be said for some of the past transfers.

Fans can perseverate over "facilities" and "commitment" from a distance, yet the reality is that these cost money. If someone comes along and donates a significant sum, the facilities will get an upgrade. For example, Prof. Kempf (who was a professor of mine, BTW) provided an estate gift https://www.valpo.edu/news/2018/06/28/gift-from-kempf-estate-leads-hilltop-gym-renovation-project/ and thus practice facilities got a nice facelift/upgrade in 2018. Anything else is a waste of time given the significant financial constraints of the University.   

I would add that vuny98 is correct. To my knowledge, at least since the Homer Drew Era, the only three individuals to play in the NBA and play for Valpo are Bryce Drew, Ryan Broekhoff and Alec Peters. Although other well-regarded players did transfer and had some success, none made it to the NBA in part for the reasons 98 mentions.

[sliman]

I don't believe they made it into a regular season NBA game, but both Lubos Barton and Ron Howard played in the summer league, clearly getting the chance for a good look from NBA personnel.  Further support for vuny's comments.  Not sure if Raitis played in the summer league although he may have received an invitation.  And, of course, among those who didn't stay, Brandon Wood played in the G League where Ron was a fixture. 

[vu72]

Valpo's facilities suck and show an overall lack of commitment to the program.

"Facilities" is a very broad term.  Do you mean the main arena". Then yes, it sucks and as others have pointed out, sans a big time contribution its perfume on a pig.

If you meant the practice facility, you are wrong.  It is as good as any in the League.  Weight room? who knows. Locker room was redone a couple of years ago.  Something else? The Basketball offices? Pretty nice when last I saw them.

[crusader05]

I'd imagine at some point the Drews are going to be hit up for some money if we don't get funds elsewhere. I get that it might be a little awkward while the two sons are coaching now. But I can't image that they aren't as a family going to end up pretty financially well off in a way that could elevate our facilities and such pretty significantly if they decided to make a donation.

[vu84v2]

valpo95 hits the nail on the head. People say that basketball and athletics need greater commitment from the administration, which can reasonable restated as "put more money in the basketball and athletics programs." Given that there is a pandemic, as well as other financially-related pressures on private universities, there is not extra funding available. So, what would you defund to get to the $5M, $10M, or whatever you think is needed for a 'commitment'? The university is already planning to eliminate or streamline some programs just to stay reasonably stable...and those cuts were painful.

[usc4valpo]

Disagree. Drake and Bradley can do  it, so can Valpo. We deserve more than a HS gym.

[vu84v2]

usc4valpo - while we disagree, I wish that more people associated with Valpo had the passion for the basketball program that you have.

[usc4valpo]

Disagreement is good, unless you work in government where of course it goes nowhere and it gets personal...

I have passion for the basketball program because it has provided more national exposure to the university more likely than anything else. We had tremendous coaching, good student athletes and great student support. That has unfortunately diminished because the university took this success for granted. The success in the late 90s and early 2000s should have been sustained and the university failed in taking advantage of this success. I feel that we should not be satisfied in a 0.500 season and being average in the Valley - although I think for Valpo that may be just fine.

[VALPO LI]

Disagreement is good, unless you work in government where of course it goes nowhere and it gets personal...

I have passion for the basketball program because it has provided more national exposure to the university more likely than anything else. We had tremendous coaching, good student athletes and great student support. That has unfortunately diminished because the university took this success for granted. The success in the late 90s and early 2000s should have been sustained and the university failed in taking advantage of this success. I feel that we should not be satisfied in a 0.500 season and being average in the Valley - although I think for Valpo that may be just fine.

Your statement is spot on.  The New York Times published an article about Valpo dropping the mascot and the second sentence describing Valparaiso University jumps right into Valpo basketball and the famous sweet sixteen run.
"Valparaiso University, which is known for one of the biggest upsets in the history of the N.C.A.A. Division I men's basketball tournament by a mid-major athletic program......"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/sports/valparaiso-drops-crusader-mascot.html

[crusadermoe]

They didn't distinguish us by talking about our choir and our well-rounded liberal arts education?  Those would be unique niches...

[bbtds]

Disagree. Drake and Bradley can do  it, so can Valpo. We deserve more than a HS gym.

Bradley's facility was mostly paid for by the city of Peoria. Carver Arena. The minor league hockey team, the Peoria Rivermen, also play there.

Same in Evansville. The Ford Center is also used by the minor league hockey team, the Evansville Thunderbolts.

Besides Carver Arena Bradley uses an on campus facility. Renaissance Coliseum built in 2009 and first used in 2010 that seats 4,200.  When I lived in Peoria there was Robertson Memorial Field House which was built in 1949 and demolished in 2008. It sat on the same property as the RC. It seated 7,800 at that time and was a lot like Hilltop Gym but with seating going further on both sides.

[valpopal]

Butler just upset Xavier, which was listed as among the last four into the tournament along with Drake by Jerry Palm. Therefore, Xavier should be out and that should help Drake.

[VUGrad1314]

Kansas State (Drake's best or at least most recognizable win) PUMMELS TCU 71-50 and Louisville (another bubble team Last 4 byes according to Lunardi) is down double digits late to Duke! This is a great night!

[may know]

Xavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

[vuny98]

Xavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

Yeah, the Duke win could be a curse. They can work themselves into a tournament spot and Louisville may just keep one themselves.

[wh]

Fans can perseverate over "facilities" and "commitment" from a distance, yet the reality is that these cost money.

I had no clue, so I looked it up:

"An example of perseveration is someone sandpapering a table until they go through the wood, or a person who continues talking about a topic even when the conversation has moved on to other things."

Talk about hitting the nail on the head. lol

[VUGrad1314]

Xavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

Xavier just knocked itself out of the tournament. It's looking pretty good for Drake as long as none of Memphis/Duke/Ole Miss/Seton Hall/St John's steal a bid.

Yeah, the Duke win could be a curse. They can work themselves into a tournament spot and Louisville may just keep one themselves.

The loss didn't even move Louisville which I think is criminal on Lunardi's part. I definitely agree on Duke being a sneaky team that could steal a spot. Seton Hall and St John's are playing each other in what I would have to believe is an elimination game of sorts. If Notre Dame can beat North Carolina tonight that would be super!

[wh]

Does anyone happen to know why the Ivy League cancelled its entire season, when most everyone else from 5th to the NBA played basketball?

[vuny98]

Does anyone happen to know why the Ivy League cancelled its entire season, when most everyone else from 5th to the NBA played basketball?

Extreme Liberalism. I'm only partially joking.

[humbleopinion]

Sports for the IVY League is incidental to the mission of the member universities and play no role in financing or attracting students.  There was no harm in being safe.

[VUGrad1314]

Just saw this:

Looks like Duke's season is over. You have to feel for those kids who looked poised to perhaps go on a run. It helps Drake on the bubble but man you don't want to see help come in that way.

https://twitter.com/BracketguyDave/status/1370031706456133635?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1370031706456133635%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-918432.html

[JD24]

Duke's had a positive Covid test and "won't play" tonight vs. FSU. What that means still is unclear but it logically means that they are out of the tournament and will finish 13-11 as a best case scenario. They could also forfeit which makes it 13-12.

Even the cynic in me which thinks the NCAA and TV people would do nearly anything to put them in the tourney at the expense of a program such as Drake thinks this will put the final nail in the coffin of the Duke possibility.