What will the nickname be

[justducky]

Rokita is a clown.  Much like him signing on to overturn the election, or trying to prevent the governor from being able to exercise basic executive functions during a health emergency, he doesn't really care what the law actually says and is just a performer on a stage trying to make certain people happy to try and parlay this role into a greater one at either the state or national level.

Valpo will be fine.  Sadly the people of the state will pay for this "investigation" that will turn up nothing, but Rokita got his headline, and that's all that really matters to him.

Reading or debating the Rokita claims was an obvious waste of time but I will take 1 minute to give your response a thumbs up.  I don't want or understand his job but I or you should primary him just to drag him through the slime pit of reality. I would so much love to shine my naked ass at him.

[valpopal]

According to the Chicago Tribune, Valparaiso University apparently has released an official statement about the Confucius Institute funding situation:


"Valparaiso University is, and always has been, transparent and compliant with the reporting of these funds. Valparaiso University does not and would not support any kind of endeavor that furthers or promotes communist ideology as doing so would conflict with its Christian mission and purpose and its strong support of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution that protects the freedom of speech and religion."


This statement is a start but probably doesn't go far enough because questions will be asked about how the "Christian mission and purpose" align with the actions and policies of the Communist Chinese government with which VU has indirectly partnered—concerning genocide, religious freedom, human rights, environmental issues, intellectual theft, limitation of children, virus control, etc.—and whether they will remain silent on the Chinese government's role in those topics.

[mp91]

According to the Chicago Tribune, Valparaiso University apparently has released an official statement about the Confucius Institute funding situation:


"Valparaiso University is, and always has been, transparent and compliant with the reporting of these funds. Valparaiso University does not and would not support any kind of endeavor that furthers or promotes communist ideology as doing so would conflict with its Christian mission and purpose and its strong support of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution that protects the freedom of speech and religion."


This statement is a start but probably doesn't go far enough because questions will be asked about how the "Christian mission and purpose" align with the actions and policies of the Communist Chinese government with which VU has indirectly partnered—concerning genocide, religious freedom, human rights, environmental issues, intellectual theft, limitation of children, virus control, etc.—and whether they will remain silent on the Chinese government's role in those topics.

idk I think this statement is more than sufficient. I would not spend anymore time on this partisan-fueled conspiracy theory. Like the other commenter said, Rokita is a bum and is only concerned about headlines. Most colleges have relationships with organizations in China. This is all for publicity, as is almost everything else he does.

[valpopal]

According to the Chicago Tribune, Valparaiso University apparently has released an official statement about the Confucius Institute funding situation:


"Valparaiso University is, and always has been, transparent and compliant with the reporting of these funds. Valparaiso University does not and would not support any kind of endeavor that furthers or promotes communist ideology as doing so would conflict with its Christian mission and purpose and its strong support of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution that protects the freedom of speech and religion."


This statement is a start but probably doesn't go far enough because questions will be asked about how the "Christian mission and purpose" align with the actions and policies of the Communist Chinese government with which VU has indirectly partnered—concerning genocide, religious freedom, human rights, environmental issues, intellectual theft, limitation of children, virus control, etc.—and whether they will remain silent on the Chinese government's role in those topics.

idk I think this statement is more than sufficient. I would not spend anymore time on this partisan-fueled conspiracy theory. Like the other commenter said, Rokita is a bum and is only concerned about headlines. Most colleges have relationships with organizations in China. This is all for publicity, as is almost everything else he does.

According to the Washington Post, almost 50 colleges have dropped their Confucius Institute connections. This issue is nonpartisan and goes beyond Rokita's involvement.


Additionally, "The American Association of University Professors called on almost a hundred U.S. universities to reexamine their ties with Beijing's signature cultural outpost. 'Occasionally university administrations have entered into partnerships that sacrificed the integrity of the university,' the association wrote. 'Confucius Institutes function as an arm of the Chinese state and are allowed to ignore academic freedom.'"


"At North Carolina State University in 2009, the Confucius Institute allegedly objected to the university's invitation to the Dalai Lama, a Tibetan spiritual leader whom China considers a traitor. The event was canceled. While the official rationale was lack of time and resources, the university provost told Bloomberg, 'I don't want to say we didn't think about whether there were implications. Of course you do. China is a major trading partner for North Carolina.'"


"Self-censorship — illustrated by a University of Chicago administrator's acknowledgment that he would not hang a picture of the Dalai Lama in its Confucius Institute — has also been documented."

[mp91]

According to the Chicago Tribune, Valparaiso University apparently has released an official statement about the Confucius Institute funding situation:


"Valparaiso University is, and always has been, transparent and compliant with the reporting of these funds. Valparaiso University does not and would not support any kind of endeavor that furthers or promotes communist ideology as doing so would conflict with its Christian mission and purpose and its strong support of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution that protects the freedom of speech and religion."


This statement is a start but probably doesn't go far enough because questions will be asked about how the "Christian mission and purpose" align with the actions and policies of the Communist Chinese government with which VU has indirectly partnered—concerning genocide, religious freedom, human rights, environmental issues, intellectual theft, limitation of children, virus control, etc.—and whether they will remain silent on the Chinese government's role in those topics.

idk I think this statement is more than sufficient. I would not spend anymore time on this partisan-fueled conspiracy theory. Like the other commenter said, Rokita is a bum and is only concerned about headlines. Most colleges have relationships with organizations in China. This is all for publicity, as is almost everything else he does.

According to the Washington Post, almost 50 colleges have dropped their Confucius Institute connections. This issue is nonpartisan and goes beyond Rokita's involvement.


Additionally, "The American Association of University Professors called on almost a hundred U.S. universities to reexamine their ties with Beijing's signature cultural outpost. 'Occasionally university administrations have entered into partnerships that sacrificed the integrity of the university,' the association wrote. 'Confucius Institutes function as an arm of the Chinese state and are allowed to ignore academic freedom.'"


"At North Carolina State University in 2009, the Confucius Institute allegedly objected to the university's invitation to the Dalai Lama, a Tibetan spiritual leader whom China considers a traitor. The event was canceled. While the official rationale was lack of time and resources, the university provost told Bloomberg, 'I don't want to say we didn't think about whether there were implications. Of course you do. China is a major trading partner for North Carolina.'"


"Self-censorship — illustrated by a University of Chicago administrator's acknowledgment that he would not hang a picture of the Dalai Lama in its Confucius Institute — has also been documented."

I'm not saying the organization doesn't have problems. Anytime youre in business with China, there is going to be some problematic areas to some extent, in any sector. But, it's completely different to have a politician say that you are being corrupted and taking advantage of by a foreign agent.

How many of these other schools were being investigated by state politicians? As far as my research has shown so far, none.

There is certainly a partisan aspect to this. You don't open a public investigation by questioning a local university unless you want attention. Anything related to China is easy bait for politicians. He could have easily contacted them privately or made a simple declarative statement without opening an investigation. That's purely for clout.... Should we partner with another Chinese based educational organization? That's a different question.But, to say this is not politically motivated is just being blind to the political climate and Rokita's history.

[valpopal]

to say this is not politically motivated is just being blind to the political climate and Rokita's history.

I didn't deny the politics of Rokita's motivation. I readily acknowledge it. We can agree on this. What I said: "The issue is nonpartisan and goes beyond Rokita's involvement." Now that the storyline is in the national media, and given that about 50 other universities already have seen fit to drop their Confucius Institute connections for nonpartisan reasons, Rokita is less important.


For the sake of public relations and to get in front of this issue, VU has a responsibility to address the possibility of Chinese influence more completely, compellingly, and critically, rather than remain silent. This means drawing distinctions between its "Christian mission and purpose" and the various policies or actions of the Communist Chinese government that contradict that "mission and purpose." Since the university finds itself in an indirect partnership with the Chinese government, it also must clarify that there isn't any subtle censorship or unspoken ways of self-censorship that might exist. Remember what happened when VU failed to proactively get in front of the Law School problem.

[Just Sayin]

in Rokita's own words:

https://townhall.com/columnists/toddrokita/2021/08/12/shedding-light-on-chinese-communist-partys-domestic-propaganda-program-n2594045

Also, Mike Waltz from Florida:

https://waltz.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=355

[JBC1824]

According to the Chicago Tribune, Valparaiso University apparently has released an official statement about the Confucius Institute funding situation:


"Valparaiso University is, and always has been, transparent and compliant with the reporting of these funds. Valparaiso University does not and would not support any kind of endeavor that furthers or promotes communist ideology as doing so would conflict with its Christian mission and purpose and its strong support of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution that protects the freedom of speech and religion."


This statement is a start but probably doesn't go far enough because questions will be asked about how the "Christian mission and purpose" align with the actions and policies of the Communist Chinese government with which VU has indirectly partnered—concerning genocide, religious freedom, human rights, environmental issues, intellectual theft, limitation of children, virus control, etc.—and whether they will remain silent on the Chinese government's role in those topics.

I agree that this statement should be thought of as incomplete. It does not in any way address the specific types of influence Confucius Institutes have been found to exert at other colleges and universities for which these institutes have come under such scrutiny from even the U.S. government. The statement suggests the University continues to misunderstand this issue as some others on this thread also appear to.

In the relevant cases, Confucius Institutes have not sought to "promote or further communist ideology" generally, such as would be the case if they were in the habit of explicitly advocating for something contradicting Chrisitian or free-speech principles. 

Instead, these institutes exert a more subtle and specific influence. Examples of this influence and why this is indeed problematic have been thoroughly detailed in previous posts on this thread.

[JBC1824]

Guys, it does not matter one bit if Rokita is a clown or if the investigation is politically motivated or has merit. You are very much missing the point. I largely agree with you about the investigation's likely motivations and its necessity. 

Though, Rokita really has not "claimed" or said anything as it relates to Valparaiso University specifically that is not a matter of absolute fact. Confucius Institutes are indeed alleged to function as a propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), including by the U.S. State Department, which recently and officially designated these institutes as "foreign missions" to the CCP.

Valpo also does have a Confucius Institute. And Valpo has received over a million dollars from the CCP to host this institute, yet apparently the school has not disclosed how the money was used. I would be very curious to know whether or not there was some obligation to do so. At the very least, not having done so ultimately served to invite this unfortunate investigation.

The school would have been far better off, though, realizing that opinion has very obviously shifted in recent years on colleges and universities hosting Confucius Institutes and discontinuing its own.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the other organizations in China with which other colleges and universities may or may not have relationships with. I'd be interested to learn more about what these organizations might be, though. Please explain.

As Valpopal's and my previous comments indicate, the only thing which truly matters here is the very bad publicity the announcement of this investigation has given Valparaiso University. Many observers, particularly those unfamiliar with Valpo, will not be as willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a school they have no direct knowledge of or allegiance to. Some will not understand or consider that Rokita seems to be something of a partisan.

And to others, it will surely be far more interesting to think some small, religiously affiliated university in the midwest, of all places, has elements that are operating as a "front" for the CCP -- one of the greatest human rights violators in the world today (e.g. genocide, involuntary organ-harvesting).

And the headlines associated with the announcement of this investigation will give these individuals plenty of fuel for that fire. For instance, the headline from nwi.com, which reads, "Indiana attorney general investigating whether Valpo institute is front for Communist Party."

Generally speaking people only read the headlines anyway, not the articles, and especially not the follow-up articles, if these even end up being written. And it is only in these follow up articles that it would be explained to readers that the original headline and story were essentially a waste of everyone's time.

Furthermore, this is all developing at what was an already tumultuous time for Valpo given its ongoing financial difficulties; the controversial decision to retire the Crusader nickname; the controversial choice of "Beacons" as the replacement; and then, the subsequent fiasco with the logo.

Essentially, coming on the heels of the university having unintentionally but nonetheless marginalized many members of its community with the business regarding the nicknames and logo, the broader reputation of the school is now going to take something of a hit because of the announcement of this investigation, spurious or not.

The effects everything related to this investigation will have remain to be seen, but it would be foolish to think this is not another very unfortunate development.

I am praying for Valparaiso University.

[vu72]

Remember what happened when VU failed to proactively get in front of the Law School problem.
Report to m

You are readily available to take cheap shots at Valpo's Administration.  Why you continue to teach at Valpo is a very solid question.  As for the law school, how might you have suggested they "get in front" of the problem.  We tried admitting more students with lower credentials--answer--Sanction.  They end result was nothing to do with the Administration "getting in front" of a declining law school population of candidates.  Given that fact, we, with a just mediocre reputation (even if it were great) couldn't compete for limited candidates in a region with schools like Notre Dame, Northwestern and the University of Chicago.

You are quick to throw mud at Valpo and its Administration. Why stay?

[vu72]

in Rokita's own words:

https://townhall.com/columnists/toddrokita/2021/08/12/shedding-light-on-chinese-communist-partys-domestic-propaganda-program-n2594045

Also, Mike Waltz from Florida:

https://waltz.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=355

These guys are right in line with other right wing nut jobs like Ken Paxton, trying to gain publicity from The Loser.  We should pretty much ignor it.  It doesn't have any roots.  He presumed that President Padilla was a liberal so time to attack.  Sad.  Another loser.

[valpopal]

Remember what happened when VU failed to proactively get in front of the Law School problem.

You are readily available to take cheap shots at Valpo's Administration. 

I consider all the facts available to me and offer an honest evaluation, which means I compliment the administration when it deserves praise, which is often; but just as importantly, I also question the administration in those instances when it earns criticism because I want all areas of the university to thrive and to be successful. I'm not sure what you mean by "cheap shot," since you are the first I have encountered who thinks the administration is completely blameless for the Law School failure. I assure you, even members of the administration will acknowledge the missteps.

[Just Sayin]

in Rokita's own words:

https://townhall.com/columnists/toddrokita/2021/08/12/shedding-light-on-chinese-communist-partys-domestic-propaganda-program-n2594045

Also, Mike Waltz from Florida:

https://waltz.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=355

These guys are right in line with other right wing nut jobs like Ken Paxton, trying to gain publicity from The Loser.  We should pretty much ignor it.  It doesn't have any roots.  He presumed that President Padilla was a liberal so time to attack.  Sad.  Another loser.

Rather than spew an ad hominem, why don't you respond to their arguments with a logical rebuttal?

[bbtds]

Many observers, particularly those unfamiliar with Valpo, will not be as willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a school they have no direct knowledge of or allegiance to. Some will not understand or consider that Rokita seems to be something of a partisan.

A very consistent and very large fault in the media of the far right. Why don't those unfamiliar with Valpo know that Rokita is partisan? Because the far right media wants Rokita to be the middle of the Republican Party and it is just simply false and untrue to claim at all that he is. It's the far right media that propagates this untruth and convinces those that don't truly know Valpo to believe this total and utter crap!

[IrishDawg]

in Rokita's own words:

https://townhall.com/columnists/toddrokita/2021/08/12/shedding-light-on-chinese-communist-partys-domestic-propaganda-program-n2594045

Also, Mike Waltz from Florida:

https://waltz.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=355

These guys are right in line with other right wing nut jobs like Ken Paxton, trying to gain publicity from The Loser.  We should pretty much ignor it.  It doesn't have any roots.  He presumed that President Padilla was a liberal so time to attack.  Sad.  Another loser.

Rather than spew an ad hominem, why don't you respond to their arguments with a logical rebuttal?

The US has 14 Universities in mainland China that have at least partnered with Chinese Universities.  20,000 kids in mainland China are enrolled in UC-Berkeley.  Yes, the Chinese are using the Confucius Institutes to paint themselves in a positive light, just as we use educational opportunities in foreign countries to paint the US in a positive light.  South Korea exports its culture through K-Pop.  Europe broadcasts its soccer leagues here in the US.  Like it or not, we cannot pretend that we aren't a global community, and to do so makes us weaker as a people and a nation, not stronger.  This doesn't absolve China's government for the horrific things they are doing, but calligraphy, the Chinese language and Chinese music and learning about them are not inherently evil.

Rokita's entire "investigation" hinges on the possibility that the Confucius Institute need only to put in essentially the cost of a single professor into Valpo per year to completely flip the thinking of impressionable young adults or children into embracing Communism and hating America.  If that's the case our educational system truly is terrible, especially when some of these programs are taking place at Culver Academies, which is more expensive than most colleges.  His "investigation" also wasn't spurred on by any specific accusations made against the Institute at Valpo.  It's solely based on McCarthyism tactics, and unless there is specific evidence to point to that shows that writing classes or music classes are making explicit statements about geopolitical issues, it's not even provable.

I would also respond to Mr. Rokita that he is correct, money influences many ADULTS into capitulating or ignoring the awful things that are going on in China in the name of profit.  That's probably why his idol, Donald Trump, is far more willing to pay more in taxes to help fund the Chinese government than he is to the American government.

[JBC1824]

(This will be the last time I make a post related to this topic. Everything that needed to be said already has been. Furthermore, I find it depressing.)

IrishDawg,

In the cases which have earned Confucius Institutes the deserved scrutiny they are now under, these institutes have not operated to simply paint the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) in a "positive light."

But even if this issue were so simple, how could you possibly believe painting a country in a positive light which is actively engaged in genocide of multiple religious and ethnic minorities, for instance, is in any way comparable to the U.S. promoting itself through educational opportunities, the international broadcasting of European soccer, or K-pop?

And who is acting as though we do not currently live as members of a global community, and what does this possibly have to do with Confucius Institutes?

These are easily some of the poorest lines of thinking I have seen on this forum.

The U.S. State Department has decreed by law that Confucius Institutes are to be considered "foregin missions" of the CCP not because they teach language and culture. While these institutes certainly do these things, the institutes have also been found to do many other things. And this is the reason the issue is so important.

The problem with Confucius Institutes is really not so much about what they do say and teach, but what the operators of these institutes will not allow to be said or taught -- matters of extreme importance to humanity as a whole.

The operators themselves are first screened and hired by the CCP, and then and then only, individual colleges and universities are able to choose from the group. If institute directors and teachers have been determined by the CCP to "engage in activities" considered to be "detrimental to [Chinese] national interests," these individuals' contracts are automatically terminated.

Off limits topics include anything related to the Dalai Lama; Tibetan independence or autonomy; Tawainese sovereignty; the forced takeover of Hong-Kong; and most importantly of all the CCP's baltant genocidal acts spanning decades (which include involuntary organ-harvesting) targeting multiple religious and ethnic minority groups; etc.

To perhaps better make the point, please consider how appropriate it would be for a U.S. college or university to have a "Nazi Institute," where German language and aspects of Nazi Germany's culture were taught to students and there was no mention whatsoever made or allowed of the Holocaust or Hitler's ambitions to take over the world.

If I'm not mistaken, the entire purpose of any "investigation" is to, in the presence of uncertainty, ultimately arrive at a point of certainty.

Therefore, Rikita's investigation "hinging on the possibility" that the Confucius Institute at Valpo did something wrong does not automatically delegitimize it.

Please keep in mind that Valpo did not disclose how the money it received from the CCP was put to use and it remains unclear whether colleges and universities were under some type of obligation to do so.

And Valpo received over a million dollars, far more than "the cost of a single professor."

As I have already explained in previous posts, this has absolutely nothing to do with teaching students to embrace communism generally or hate America, either. 

It is necessary to keep in mind the statements made by multiple high-ranking CCP officials regarding the purpose for sponsoring Confucius Institutes abroad. These include explicit acknowledgement that the institutes "carry out propaganda battles against issuers such as Tibet, Xinjiang [Uyghur genocide], Taiwan, human rights, and Falun Gong."

And, "The 'Confucius' brand has a natural attractiveness. Using the excuse of teaching Chinese language, everything looks reasonable and logical."

Just as whether or not we should embrace the fact we are now part of a broader global community is irrelevant to this issue, so is Donald Trump.

The bottom line is Valpo screwed up by not understanding that it should have gotten rid of its Confucius Institute, and perhaps by not disclosing how the money it recieved was put to use.

Also, it does not matter if this investigation is b.s. or if Rokita is a partisan moron, but it matters very much that the University is getting a lot of bad press because of all this.

And most regrettably, all of this would seem to have been avoidable.

[bbtds]

(This will be the last time I make a post related to this topic. Everything that needed to be said already has been. Furthermore, I find it depressing.)

We can count on this happening about as much as Donald Trump telling the truth about the 2020 US Presidential election.

[Just Sayin]

(This will be the last time I make a post related to this topic. Everything that needed to be said already has been. Furthermore, I find it depressing.)

We can count on this happening about as much as Donald Trump telling the truth about the 2020 US Presidential election.

Apparently, an ad hominem "argument"  is now considered to be a powerful rebuttal to a logical argument.

[Just Sayin]

(This will be the last time I make a post related to this topic. Everything that needed to be said already has been. Furthermore, I find it depressing.)

IrishDawg,

In the cases which have earned Confucius Institutes the deserved scrutiny they are now under, these institutes have not operated to simply paint the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) in a "positive light."

But even if this issue were so simple, how could you possibly believe painting a country in a positive light which is actively engaged in genocide of multiple religious and ethnic minorities, for instance, is in any way comparable to the U.S. promoting itself through educational opportunities, the international broadcasting of European soccer, or K-pop?

And who is acting as though we do not currently live as members of a global community, and what does this possibly have to do with Confucius Institutes?

These are easily some of the poorest lines of thinking I have seen on this forum.

The U.S. State Department has decreed by law that Confucius Institutes are to be considered "foregin missions" of the CCP not because they teach language and culture. While these institutes certainly do these things, the institutes have also been found to do many other things. And this is the reason the issue is so important.

The problem with Confucius Institutes is really not so much about what they do say and teach, but what the operators of these institutes will not allow to be said or taught -- matters of extreme importance to humanity as a whole.

The operators themselves are first screened and hired by the CCP, and then and then only, individual colleges and universities are able to choose from the group. If institute directors and teachers have been determined by the CCP to "engage in activities" considered to be "detrimental to [Chinese] national interests," these individuals' contracts are automatically terminated.

Off limits topics include anything related to the Dalai Lama; Tibetan independence or autonomy; Tawainese sovereignty; the forced takeover of Hong-Kong; and most importantly of all the CCP's baltant genocidal acts spanning decades (which include involuntary organ-harvesting) targeting multiple religious and ethnic minority groups; etc.

To perhaps better make the point, please consider how appropriate it would be for a U.S. college or university to have a "Nazi Institute," where German language and aspects of Nazi Germany's culture were taught to students and there was no mention whatsoever made or allowed of the Holocaust or Hitler's ambitions to take over the world.

If I'm not mistaken, the entire purpose of any "investigation" is to, in the presence of uncertainty, ultimately arrive at a point of certainty.

Therefore, Rikita's investigation "hinging on the possibility" that the Confucius Institute at Valpo did something wrong does not automatically delegitimize it.

Please keep in mind that Valpo did not disclose how the money it received from the CCP was put to use and it remains unclear whether colleges and universities were under some type of obligation to do so.

And Valpo received over a million dollars, far more than "the cost of a single professor."

As I have already explained in previous posts, this has absolutely nothing to do with teaching students to embrace communism generally or hate America, either. 

It is necessary to keep in mind the statements made by multiple high-ranking CCP officials regarding the purpose for sponsoring Confucius Institutes abroad. These include explicit acknowledgement that the institutes "carry out propaganda battles against issuers such as Tibet, Xinjiang [Uyghur genocide], Taiwan, human rights, and Falun Gong."

And, "The 'Confucius' brand has a natural attractiveness. Using the excuse of teaching Chinese language, everything looks reasonable and logical."

Just as whether or not we should embrace the fact we are now part of a broader global community is irrelevant to this issue, so is Donald Trump.

The bottom line is Valpo screwed up by not understanding that it should have gotten rid of its Confucius Institute, and perhaps by not disclosing how the money it recieved was put to use.

Also, it does not matter if this investigation is b.s. or if Rokita is a partisan moron, but it matters very much that the University is getting a lot of bad press because of all this.

And most regrettably, all of this would seem to have been avoidable.

Excellent response. A+

[VUSupport]

Let's stick to the original subject of nickname

[VUSupport]

Here's more logos

[IrishDawg]

Here's more logos

The lighthouse looks kind of like a chess piece, and while I don't love the bottom logo because it kind of reminds me of the exterior light of our house that comes on when it gets dark, these are improvements.

[valpopal]

Here's more logos

The lighthouse looks kind of like a chess piece, and while I don't love the bottom logo because it kind of reminds me of the exterior light of our house that comes on when it gets dark, these are improvements.

I don't understand the need to be so literal and heavy handed in these logos—a lighthouse and a lantern—when the more creative "V" shield logo seen within the lantern is superior and sophisticated, and can stand on its own.

[VUSupport]

Maybe the bottom one is paying homage to the Round the Clock tower  downtown

[valpopal]

Now, there is the logo! Keep it simple and sleek!


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