Valpo vs Ashland Sat Oct 30th 6pm

[valpotx]

Flagler is preseason #2, so yes, I would say that folks believe that they are returning a strong team.

[JD24]

These types of losses used to be more embarrassing 5-10+ years ago.  It is not as rare for a good D-2 to beat a D-1 at the beginning of the season, as it used to be. Why would JFL be at our game?  All of the former teammates are gone, except for Eron & Ben? Are Young, Palesse, and Barrett hurt?

If I had to venture a guess, Keyondre and Cam are redshirting. They participated in warm-ups and looked ready to go. Not sure about Connor, although it's possible he could be redshirting, as well.

These types of losses used to be more embarrassing 5-10+ years ago.  It is not as rare for a good D-2 to beat a D-1 at the beginning of the season, as it used to be. Why would JFL be at our game?  All of the former teammates are gone, except for Eron & Ben? Are Young, Palesse, and Barrett hurt?

If I had to venture a guess, Keyondre and Cam are redshirting. They participated in warm-ups and looked ready to go. Not sure about Connor, although it's possible he could be redshirting, as well.

Someone is going to have to explain to me how a team which lost to Ashland cannot use Keyondre Young in the lineup from an ability perspective. Some of the transfers may turn out well. Some likely will not. Maybe Lottich is giving these guys a few games to play themselves out of the rotation.

[96]

I was thinking the same way about keyondre Young 6'8 SG his long arms around the perimeter along will definitely help on defense

[wh]

These types of losses used to be more embarrassing 5-10+ years ago.  It is not as rare for a good D-2 to beat a D-1 at the beginning of the season, as it used to be. Why would JFL be at our game?  All of the former teammates are gone, except for Eron & Ben? Are Young, Palesse, and Barrett hurt?

If I had to venture a guess, Keyondre and Cam are redshirting. They participated in warm-ups and looked ready to go. Not sure about Connor, although it's possible he could be redshirting, as well.

These types of losses used to be more embarrassing 5-10+ years ago.  It is not as rare for a good D-2 to beat a D-1 at the beginning of the season, as it used to be. Why would JFL be at our game?  All of the former teammates are gone, except for Eron & Ben? Are Young, Palesse, and Barrett hurt?

If I had to venture a guess, Keyondre and Cam are redshirting. They participated in warm-ups and looked ready to go. Not sure about Connor, although it's possible he could be redshirting, as well.

Someone is going to have to explain to me how a team which lost to Ashland cannot use Keyondre Young in the lineup from an ability perspective. Some of the transfers may turn out well. Some likely will not. Maybe Lottich is giving these guys a few games to play themselves out of the rotation.

Of course, they could have used him last night. He would have been a tough match-up on both ends of the court. Again, the only reason that he was held out that makes any sense is that he's going to redshirt. The proof of the pudding is that Trey and Preston even got playing time and Keyondre didn't. Inserting them in the lineup before Keyondre would be like playing Steve Kerr and Scott Williams ahead of Michael Jordan.

[VUGrad1314]

This loss had better wake this team up because if it doesn't and we can't even finish in the top 6 with this roster we really need to be done with Matt Lottich. He's had more than enough time even with all of the adversity and built in excuses. The results just will not have been there to justify continually holding on to him. I'm sorry. I know he's a good man and he's obviously trying his best. I want to give him more time and I know the MVC is really really tough this year but we don't really have  time if we want to avoid becoming a perennial MVC bottom feeder.

[Just Sayin]

If we spank Flagler, I'll consider that progress regardless of how ugly the win may be.

[bb33]

I can't say where we should end of up at the end because the Valley is super strong this year, but we can not lose games like we did last night. We cannot compete like we did last night.    Many changes need to happen, and hopefully by the time we hit the Bahamas, we will have things straightened out.  Otherwise, it will be a long season.

[JD24]

Of course, they could have used him last night. He would have been a tough match-up on both ends of the court. Again, the only reason that he was held out that makes any sense is that he's going to redshirt. The proof of the pudding is that Trey and Preston even got playing time and Keyondre didn't. Inserting them in the lineup before Keyondre would be like playing Steve Kerr and Scott Williams ahead of Michael Jordan.

That is my point. Unless he has a significant injury, why would a program which can't beat Ashland redshirt this guy? It makes no sense particularly in today's environment in college basketball. 

Hopefully there's another explanation other than they are going to redshirt him.

[bbtds]

If we spank Flagler, I'll consider that progress regardless of how ugly the win may be.

Ain't gonna happen. Progress would be beating Flagler in a tough fought game by 1 to 5 points. Losing to Flagler by 6-15 points would be the same as losing to Ashland by 9. Losing to Flagler by 1 to 5 points would actually be progress. These are not the usual Div. II teams we have played in the past. The quality has gone up tremendously in our exhibition games.

[Just Sayin]

This loss had better wake this team up because if it doesn't and we can't even finish in the top 6 with this roster we really need to be done with Matt Lottich. He's had more than enough time even with all of the adversity and built in excuses. The results just will not have been there to justify continually holding on to him. I'm sorry. I know he's a good man and he's obviously trying his best. I want to give him more time and I know the MVC is really really tough this year but we don't really have  time if we want to avoid becoming a perennial MVC bottom feeder.

Let's not forget that Matt is reported to have received a 5-yr extension which you were fully supportive of in the thread "Matt Lottich Contract"
So it won't matter this year whether we win 1 game or 10 games. You know as well as I do that VU will not buy out his contract. 
https://mobile.twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1288482118306344960

[bb33]

Given the strength of the Valley this year, I don't think it's fair to judge this team purely on wins and losses, or where they fall in conference without seeing the other teams and the talent  they acquired.

I do know I wasn't happy with how we looked on Saturday, but I will give Matt until December to make the adjustments needed and start to realize the potential this team has.....  I just hope he reevaluates his offense scheme. Not sure I am a fan, unless he can get his team to effectively run it and it works.  What he needs is more set plays.

[crusader05]

My guess you red shirt because you don't want to waste a year of his time where, due to the current class you have on the floor he will only get maybe 10 minutes of playing time vs four years where you have him on the floor for 30 plus minutes plus a year to just practice and put on muscle and learn. There are lots of reasons to red shirt. He could need to get used to school, he could need to put on muscle, he could need to mature.

[vok22]

Something I just noticed, and this is not an excuse for losing, just an observation, was the lack of bench scoring on Saturday. It will be really nice to have Barrett back as somebody who can score off the bench, and then King when he joins the team 9 games in. Against Ashland, our bench consisted of a freshman walk on point guard (Preston), another freshman point guard (Darius), a freshman shooting guard (woodyard), a big who hasn't played more than 3 minutes in a game since high school (Hedstrom), and Eron Gordon. I was expecting next to nothing from any of those people coming into the season with the exception of Gordon. This is not a 'we are young' excuse. I am just saying it will be really nice to have a proven shooter in Barrett back and a proven scorer and more experience on the court with King. It seemed like the starters had no problem scoring, but our bench only got 4 points, all from Gordon and even he shot awful (0-5 from three). Obviously, our entire defense needs work, but bench scoring was also an issue and I don't think that will be once the season begins. Preston seemed comfortable out there, Darius seems trusted by the coaches, Eron Gordon will not be 0-5 most nights, and well have a 35-40% three point shooter in Barrett out there as well. I think the offense will actually be pretty good this year, and we have never really been a BAD defensive team under Lottich (but not great either). We have been in the upper half of the conference defensively every year except one under him.

[NativeCheesehead]

Couldn't disagree more on not judging this team on W/L this year. Maybe we forgive a few early season non con losses (and exhibitions) considering the team turnover, but at what point do we not hold this staff accountable for the record? Between graduations and the usual transfer turnover, likely 60%+ of this team will not return next year. It's time to win.

[valpo64]

 I was under the impression that red-shirting had nothing to do with exhibition games, only official games on the schedule.

[vu72]

You know as well as I do that VU will not buy out his contract. 

That might be true but it has happened before.  Dale Carlson was head coach for 2010, 2011 2012 and through the Butler game (second last of 2013 when we lost 72-12) he was fired after that game.  I doubt he had a four year (minus one game) contract.

[DuneHwx]

Agree. Can't blame a kid for not wanting to waste a year of eligibility when the team has sixth year seniors on the court. Lots more PT available next year.

[oklahomamick]

"That team shot lights out!"

That seems to happen a lot when playing against Valpo. 

It's similar to how all the offenses look really good when playing Oklahoma's D. 

[IndyEIT777]

"That team shot lights out!"

That seems to happen a lot when playing against Valpo. 

It's similar to how all the offenses look really good when playing Oklahoma's D. 

Similar to free throw shooting in the Bryce Drew era, 3 point defense and rebounding have been the two big issues I've had with the Lottich teams.

Why is it that a significant number of teams we play have some of their best shooting nights of the season against us? Frankly I think it's we're too soft on defense and don't make teams uncomfortable like the Drew teams did. It's getting really frustrating to watch and I'm getting tired of Lottich seemingly not making any adjustments in game and between games to limit this.

[wh]

I was under the impression that red-shirting had nothing to do with exhibition games, only official games on the schedule.

Actually, I looked this up sometime ago. As I recall an exhibition game does count as a game played. Basically, any game that is officially scheduled, score is kept, publicly attended, etc. counts. This differs from a "secret scrimmage" in which no score is kept, it's a closed-door event, etc.

BTW, NCAA-approved games prior to the season (like our Canadian trip a couple of years ago) do not count as games played for redshirt purposes.

[wh]

Agree. Can't blame a kid for not wanting to waste a year of eligibility when the team has sixth year seniors on the court. Lots more PT available next year.

Every player for 4 years ahead of them has a 5th year option if they want it, putting this year's freshmen at an instant disadvantage, because they won't have that option. The only way to offset that is to redshirt. It's a no-lose proposition. You get an extra year to develop physically, hone your skills, focus on academics, practice with and against D-1 level players, then start your playing career a year older and wiser. You also get 5 years of free education at a premier university. If you turn out to be a star of stars, you leave early and move to the next level. It's absolutely a no-brainer IMO.

That said, unlike the COVID extra year option, coaches only offer redshirts to players that they feel will be significant contributors down the road. For instance, I would not be surprised to learn that if Trey asked to redshirt that it wasn't approved, even though he could certainly benefit from an extra year. Nothing personal toward him at all. He could end up being great for all I know. But at this stage he simply doesn't have the credentials or athleticism of a Keyondre, for example. Again, nothing personal toward Trey. I'm thrilled he's here and wish him nothing but success and fulfillment in every way.

[wh]

This loss had better wake this team up because if it doesn't and we can't even finish in the top 6 with this roster we really need to be done with Matt Lottich. He's had more than enough time even with all of the adversity and built in excuses. The results just will not have been there to justify continually holding on to him. I'm sorry. I know he's a good man and he's obviously trying his best. I want to give him more time and I know the MVC is really really tough this year but we don't really have  time if we want to avoid becoming a perennial MVC bottom feeder.

OH MY WORD, IT WAS A FREAKING EXHIBITION GAME! GET A GRIP!!!

How about if we make a rule that we can't start talking about replacing our coach until we've played at least 5 real games? If that's too much to ask, I'm willing to negotiate.

[crusader05]

One positive I took in reading what the players said after was how clear they took responsibility, seemed aware of the issues, and indicated they were going to work on them. Honestly, that is more important than a coach seeing it. Edwards indicated he realized he played to the crowd too much and needed better shot selection. Kithier said they need to sit down and watch the tape and see the hard lessons it taught. Taylor seemed to have a clear idea that they underestimated Ashland and paid for it. All of those comments indicate both leadership and investment.

I do think that our team believed their hype a bit and while I want them confident and raring to go I don't want that to lead to complacency.  Let's see how the players respond as much as the coach. We also now have 5 players that have experienced 3 different College coaching styles and they can bring some of that to the team practice as well. 

I'd rather lose should win games at the beginning of the season than at the end but I do agree that our bench needs to get better and fast, which may be why they were in for a while to get experience. I don't think matt would ever say it but he may be willing to lose these two games if it means getting to send his freshman in for longer periods to increase their exposure and experience when it doesn't count against the record.

[valpo64]

Thank you, "wh"...some of us need to get a grip and relax.  Some of these comments are just ridiculous!  For crying out loud we lost an exhibition game the year we went to the sweet 16.  Chill out folks!

[vu72]

Thank you, "wh"...some of us need to get a grip and relax.  Some of these comments are just ridiculous!  For crying out loud we lost an exhibition game the year we went to the sweet 16.  Chill out folks!

Totally agree!  We got hit by a team who returned all five starters and shot the lights out.

On a few positives, we lost without Ben and also didn't have Conner available.  Of the guys who did play, there are several indications of what to expect: 1) We have a true point guard in Trevor. 2 of 4 from the 3, 6 assists and one turnover in 31 minutes!  :clap:2) Thomas Kithier is the real deal. 7 of 8 from the field with 10 boards  3) Sheldon goes for 32 and in spite of taking some shots he shouldn't have hit 50% from the 3    16 assists and 9 turnovers. 

For a team that has never played a game together, I think it was a decent start. Sure, I expected to win but it was an exhibition game!