CSU is team to beat

[wh]

I just watched CSU dismantle #7 Vanderbilt 71-58 at Vandy.  With the Norris Cole show having left town, their other players finally got a chance to show what they're made of.  The played great team basketball and displayed a lot of athleticism.  There is no doubt in my mind that they are heads above everyone else in the HL at this early stage, despite what the pundits have been saying about Butler and Detroit. 

[vuweathernerd]

wow. 13 point win against a top 10 team on the road? that's quite impressive. congrats to csu!

[EddieCabot]

CSU looked very good today.  People discounted CSU after they lost J'Nathan Bullock and Cedric Jackson, just like people are discounting them because they lost Norris Cole.  They are a tough, physical and fearless team ... thank Gary Waters for that. 

I know Valpo folks don't care much for CSU and their style of play, but under Waters, they are one of the few HL teams who don't pee down their legs everytime they face a BCS or top 25 team.  I've got a lot of respect for Waters and what he's accomplished at CSU.

[vuweathernerd]

there's a difference between being physical and being dirty. and there have been a couple times where they have walked that tight rope, to the dismay of many. it's gotten better, but bullock especially bordered on dirty.

[StlVUFan]

there's a difference between being physical and being dirty. and there have been a couple times where they have walked that tight rope, to the dismay of many. it's gotten better, but bullock especially bordered on dirty.

Green Bay also walks that line (if they don't also trip over it).

Just to be clear, we're talking about the "foul them every time, there's no way the refs are going to call every single one and you'll get away with enough to make a difference" strategy.  Worked for Belichek in the Super Bowl against the Rams, and both these HL teams employ it.  VU needs to keep this in mind and deal with it as best you can.  I don't respect the strategy one bit, but the blame has to rest with the referees whose job it is to say, screw you, yes I *am* going to call it every time until you get the message.  Failing to do so is why games get out of hand, extra-curriculur-wise.

[vuweathernerd]

there's a difference between being physical and being dirty. and there have been a couple times where they have walked that tight rope, to the dismay of many. it's gotten better, but bullock especially bordered on dirty.

Green Bay also walks that line (if they don't also trip over it).

Just to be clear, we're talking about the "foul them every time, there's no way the refs are going to call every single one and you'll get away with enough to make a difference" strategy.  Worked for Belichek in the Super Bowl against the Rams, and both these HL teams employ it.  VU needs to keep this in mind and deal with it as best you can.  I don't respect the strategy one bit, but the blame has to rest with the referees whose job it is to say, screw you, yes I *am* going to call it every time until you get the message.  Failing to do so is why games get out of hand, extra-curriculur-wise.

you mean like the bears-lions game that just wrapped up? (sorry for the hijacking.)

[StlVUFan]

there's a difference between being physical and being dirty. and there have been a couple times where they have walked that tight rope, to the dismay of many. it's gotten better, but bullock especially bordered on dirty.

Green Bay also walks that line (if they don't also trip over it).

Just to be clear, we're talking about the "foul them every time, there's no way the refs are going to call every single one and you'll get away with enough to make a difference" strategy.  Worked for Belichek in the Super Bowl against the Rams, and both these HL teams employ it.  VU needs to keep this in mind and deal with it as best you can.  I don't respect the strategy one bit, but the blame has to rest with the referees whose job it is to say, screw you, yes I *am* going to call it every time until you get the message.  Failing to do so is why games get out of hand, extra-curriculur-wise.

you mean like the bears-lions game that just wrapped up? (sorry for the hijacking.)

Um, not quite...  that wasn't strategy, that was frustration, which leads to wronged players deciding that they have to retaliate (punishment be damned) or else their honor is tarnished, as if the scoreboard keeps track of pride points.  Moore's ejection was justified in my opinion.  I could understand if it was simply instinctive -- who wouldn't react like that after someone tried to rip your head off -- but it's the justifying it afterwards that I disagree with.

Sorry one hijacking deserves another...  Oh, and I found Thayer and Joniak somewhat hypocritical in their commentary when they both whined about Urlacher's unsportsmanlike (or was it a late hit).  I understand meatball mentality -- I have some of it in me, too -- but I don't think it helps you win games, nor does it protect you from injuries, and what else is there besides those two things?

[StlVUFan]

Back on topic:  I just started watching the game on my DVR (I was watching Belmont play 5-on-8 and still almost beat Duke on espn3, then the Bears) and among the joys of listening to the play-by-play was the one where they said that CSU is a team to reckon with because they beat Butler twice last year.

HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO GET SOMETHING SO SIMPLE AS THIS RIGHT???

I guess I can enjoy listening to them have to call an "embarrassing" defeat for the home team.

 

[vuweathernerd]

there's a difference between being physical and being dirty. and there have been a couple times where they have walked that tight rope, to the dismay of many. it's gotten better, but bullock especially bordered on dirty.

Green Bay also walks that line (if they don't also trip over it).

Just to be clear, we're talking about the "foul them every time, there's no way the refs are going to call every single one and you'll get away with enough to make a difference" strategy.  Worked for Belichek in the Super Bowl against the Rams, and both these HL teams employ it.  VU needs to keep this in mind and deal with it as best you can.  I don't respect the strategy one bit, but the blame has to rest with the referees whose job it is to say, screw you, yes I *am* going to call it every time until you get the message.  Failing to do so is why games get out of hand, extra-curriculur-wise.

you mean like the bears-lions game that just wrapped up? (sorry for the hijacking.)

Um, not quite...  that wasn't strategy, that was frustration, which leads to wronged players deciding that they have to retaliate (punishment be damned) or else their honor is tarnished, as if the scoreboard keeps track of pride points.  Moore's ejection was justified in my opinion.  I could understand if it was simply instinctive -- who wouldn't react like that after someone tried to rip your head off -- but it's the justifying it afterwards that I disagree with.

Sorry one hijacking deserves another...  Oh, and I found Thayer and Joniak somewhat hypocritical in their commentary when they both whined about Urlacher's unsportsmanlike (or was it a late hit).  I understand meatball mentality -- I have some of it in me, too -- but I don't think it helps you win games, nor does it protect you from injuries, and what else is there besides those two things?

i agree that it wasn't strategy. but i was referring to your comment about things getting out of hand if nothing gets called. because that seemed to be what happened in the 4th quarter yesterday. luckily, in the end, nobody got seriously hurt.

[agibson]

I just watched CSU dismantle #7 Vanderbilt 71-58 at Vandy.

Wow!

[sectionee]

Notre Dame vs. Detroit should be a very good game tonight.

[vuweathernerd]

Notre Dame vs. Detroit should be a very good game tonight.

anybody over notre lame. go titans!

[milanmiracle]

there's a difference between being physical and being dirty. and there have been a couple times where they have walked that tight rope, to the dismay of many. it's gotten better, but bullock especially bordered on dirty.

Green Bay also walks that line (if they don't also trip over it).

Just to be clear, we're talking about the "foul them every time, there's no way the refs are going to call every single one and you'll get away with enough to make a difference" strategy...I don't respect the strategy one bit, but the blame has to rest with the referees whose job it is to say, screw you, yes I *am* going to call it every time until you get the message.  Failing to do so is why games get out of hand, extra-curriculur-wise.

I guess I've seen it backfire on Big East teams in the tournament. The refs call every ticky tack foul and they couldn't adjust fast enough to keep people out of foul trouble.  I don't think there's anything wrong with the foul them all the time as you make the refs do their jobs. I compare it to the "no layups" strategy. Call the fouls, end of story.

[vu72]

Detroit leads ND at the half.  McCalum is the real deal.

[valporun]

ND ended up pulling that game out, 59-53. Also, Milwaukee beat Northern Illinois, who we play around Christmas, 59-57. Loyola stayed in the game with Kansas State for awhile, wound up losing 74-61. Some close loses, and unexpected scores, but not a terrible night for the HL.

[agibson]

I notice Green Bay got smoked by Duquesne the other night.  Going to be a tough game Sunday?

[valporun]

Depends on how good Green Bay really is, but from what I saw of the game on the FirstRow Sports website, Duquesne was dominant there, so definitely want to be careful that we don't mess around. A win over an A-10 team can be rewarding in the RPI numbers.

[vuweathernerd]

I notice Green Bay got smoked by Duquesne the other night.  Going to be a tough game Sunday?

for clarification's sake, we play duquesne on sunday. not green bay. i got thrown for a loop and had to check the schedule.

[StlVUFan]

there's a difference between being physical and being dirty. and there have been a couple times where they have walked that tight rope, to the dismay of many. it's gotten better, but bullock especially bordered on dirty.

Green Bay also walks that line (if they don't also trip over it).

Just to be clear, we're talking about the "foul them every time, there's no way the refs are going to call every single one and you'll get away with enough to make a difference" strategy...I don't respect the strategy one bit, but the blame has to rest with the referees whose job it is to say, screw you, yes I *am* going to call it every time until you get the message.  Failing to do so is why games get out of hand, extra-curriculur-wise.

I guess I've seen it backfire on Big East teams in the tournament. The refs call every ticky tack foul and they couldn't adjust fast enough to keep people out of foul trouble.  I don't think there's anything wrong with the foul them all the time as you make the refs do their jobs. I compare it to the "no layups" strategy. Call the fouls, end of story.

I'm not in favor of calling every ticky tack foul either, but just to unmuddy the terminology here: a so-called "ticky-tack foul" (and I scream that at games too) is *not* a foul, period.  I want them to call every authentic foul that occurs because that's their job.  A foul is not simply any body contact, but it usually requires *enough* contact to interfere with the right of way of the victim of the foul (a referee could probably clean that up for me, using the proper terminology).

Obviously, there's no punishable crime in pushing your limits as far as you can get away with, but I also don't respect the strategy.  Notice, I stated that the proper reaction to it is for the referees to up their game to deal with it properly.  The only proper reaction to the foul avalanche strategy is to call every foul, and the referee is the only one who can do it.  The other team simply has to manage the situation as best they can, and maybe they have to think about matching the strategy, who knows.  And *that* is precisely how games get out of hand, and the only ones to blame for that are the zebras.  I am so sick of wimpy-ass refs, afraid to do their job.

[FWalum]

Depends on how good Green Bay really is, but from what I saw of the game on the FirstRow Sports website, Duquesne was dominant there, so definitely want to be careful that we don't mess around. A win over an A-10 team can be rewarding in the RPI numbers.

I watched the Duquesne Arizona game and thought that they played a much more physical game against Arizona than we did, especially in the second half.  Duquesne led at halftime and was within a point with 6 minutes remaining to play until Arizona went on a 10-0 run and their largest lead was 11. Duquesne got back to within 5, but Arizona eventually won by 9. This will be a very tough and intense game for which we need to be mentally ready.

[sectionee]

I think Duquesne is much deeper then Valpo at this point.  With both teams playing several games in a row leading up to Sunday I think tired legs will be the determining factor.

[sectionee]

CSU beat St. Bonaventure with a 3 right before the end of the game.  Looking like an outstanding HL this year!

[valporun]

It could be an HL season for the ages!! Let's Go Horizon League!!!

[wh]

CSU beat Kent State tonight 57-53, the top ranked team in the MAC East (best division).  This follows our win over Akron, ranked just behind Kent in the MAC pre-season poll.  I know we all believe that the HL is a better league (based on conf. rankings in recent years), but it seems that a lot of MAC fans have trouble accepting it.  These are definitely statement games that help prove the point.  By the way, I know a lot of fans from other HL teams get tired of playing so many MAC teams.  Personally I like playing them.  We played very few MAC teams when we were in the Mid Con, and I always wondered why not.  They are in fairly close proximity, they're a respectable mid major conference, and both leagues recruit basically the same players.  It seems like a natural fit.   

[valporun]

I agree with wh about the HL playing the MAC a lot. The Horizon League is definitely a conference that can hang tough with the Mid-American Conference. It's a stronger level of basketball, and matches up better with running the floor, more than running sets to get the ball in the 4 or 5 on the inside, or getting the ball to the top scorer/main hot hand, like we saw a lot in the Mid-Con.