12/3/11, 1:00pm: Butler Game Thread

[StlVUFan]

Thanks, Irish.  I wouldn't be surprised if your prediction for the rematch turns out to be true also.

From the live blog by one of our beat writers, this was my favorite play of the whole game:

After a Nored basket, Buggs fell hard on an offensive possession and was writhing on the ground as the play went toward the other end of the court. But once Broekhoff got a steal and Buggs was all alone, limping along, Broekhoff threw him the pass and he suddenly felt better, putting in a big layup. Edwards (12 points) to the line for VU coming out of the timeout.

[StlVUFan]

I have to admit that the tears flowing on the Butler board taste very good.  Add some cheese with their 'whine' and my weekend is made 

It was fun to read through, but the only thing I would react to is calling Edwards a dbag (besides not really understanding what that word means other than it's a pejorative, the only evidence I saw presented was the tatoo which by itself is meaningless).  Aside from that, I saw plenty of optimism from the more intelligent posters (who are kind of obvious after a few years of reading the board) and a few posts that respect Valpo as a good team.

I think if we were Butler and they had just knocked us off at the ARC during our rebuilding year, they'd be enjoying exactly the same schadenfreude over this board right now.  It's hard to reach the mountain peak twice in a row and then watch your team struggle so much the following year.

[valpotx]

I would counter that we missed plenty of lay-ups/easy shots as well, so that kind of evens out.  I just think we are the better team this year, and possibly next year with the whole team coming back (hopefully). 

It's funny how they kept saying Edwards is just a thug, and kept mentioning his tattoos.  If they actually saw and understood his tattoos, they would realize a lot are either religious or family-oriented...really thuggish lol.

[FWalum]

It's funny how they kept saying Edwards is just a thug, and kept mentioning his tattoos.  If they actually saw and understood his tattoos, they would realize a lot are either religious or family-oriented...really thuggish lol.

Guess they missed the part of the bio that explains his missionairy family background. Unfortunately it backs up what I have been telling kids for years, that my generation's first impression of tattoos is a negative one no matter what the message or content. A negative first impression, caused by something like a neck tattoo, when going for a job interview is hard to overcome.

[bbtds]

It's funny how they kept saying Edwards is just a thug, and kept mentioning his tattoos.  If they actually saw and understood his tattoos, they would realize a lot are either religious or family-oriented...really thuggish lol.

Guess they missed the part of the bio that explains his missionairy family background. Unfortunately it backs up what I have been telling kids for years, that my generation's first impression of tattoos is a negative one no matter what the message or content. A negative first impression, caused by something like a neck tattoo, when going for a job interview is hard to overcome.

I understand from a friend of mine that the people in the Work One Centers in Indiana now teach younger job seekers how to hide tattoos. They tell them which make up to use and how to pick the correct shade to match the skin. My thought is that if it effects your getting a job that much then don't get the tattoo.

[bbtds]

Here is what Bryce has brought to the team. He is motivating the players to an extent we have not seen before (I'll stop making comments about Homer's coaching, he has done things for Valpo that no other person could have done).

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/crusaders-beat-butler-at-hinkle-for-the-first-time-since/article_e2cc1817-21ee-5534-a106-bb4b76316ba6.html

"The whole team really fought to the end and there were times when Butler went on runs that we could've folded," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said. "Our guys were able to respond and I'm looking forward to watching the tape and seeing all the twists and turns of this one."

[sectionee]

I think every team in the HL will be thrilled if Nored is Butler's lead scorer. Brent said as much in our preview.

[valpopal]

I know it is too early in the season for the RPI to mean much, if anything, since not enough games have been played to give statistical significance; however, after the Butler game Valpo is now ranked number 20 today. It is fun to see the Crusaders in the top 20 and ahead of many power teams, including North Carolina, pre-season pick to be the NCAA champion in March:

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html

Enjoy this ranking while you can! 

[StlVUFan]

It's funny how they kept saying Edwards is just a thug, and kept mentioning his tattoos.  If they actually saw and understood his tattoos, they would realize a lot are either religious or family-oriented...really thuggish lol.

Guess they missed the part of the bio that explains his missionairy family background. Unfortunately it backs up what I have been telling kids for years, that my generation's first impression of tattoos is a negative one no matter what the message or content. A negative first impression, caused by something like a neck tattoo, when going for a job interview is hard to overcome.

I'm happy to chalk it all up to sour grapes.  Part of the grieving process

[zvillehaze]

And FWAlum, thanks for the kind words and good wishes.  I should have had my last chemo last Friday but was too sick (unrelated) to do it, so next Friday it is.  My major surgery was on June 1 so getting it all over with before Christmas is a gift I hadn't thought about!
All indications are that  we beat it but a CT scan on the 29th will confirm, God willing.  Thanks again to all for your well wishes.

Best wishes from me too.  As fans of different teams, we don't always agree on basketball stuff.  But things like this *should* remind everyone that we're all people fighting the same battles in life. 

I appreciate and respect your love of Valpo (athletics and school).  Best of luck to you in this battle and hope to be responding to your posts on this board for many, many years!   

[StlVUFan]

I would counter that we missed plenty of lay-ups/easy shots as well, so that kind of evens out.  I just think we are the better team this year, and possibly next year with the whole team coming back (hopefully). 

It's funny how they kept saying Edwards is just a thug, and kept mentioning his tattoos.  If they actually saw and understood his tattoos, they would realize a lot are either religious or family-oriented...really thuggish lol.

Actually, I think this is what they are talking about:

And somebody, somehow, needs to get this team angry. We should not allow thugs like Edwards to throw guys around like he did to Aldredge

I don't remember seeing anything unsportsmanlike out there from Richie.  The closest thing I could think of is his fist pumps after scoring an and-1, but everybody does that.

Then again, "sour grapes" might have been on target ("thug" = code for physical player, a term we've used for Green Bay and CSU at times, myself included).

[valpotx]

BTW, where is setshot now with his 'Butler is heads and shoulders above Valpo all the time, every time' crap?

[vu72]

Funny how some seem to disappear when things are going well.     He has been around.  check the sign-in area.

[setshot]

Now that the football season has bowled up, a friend of mine and I are trying to interest Savannah State in hosting the Toilet Bowl. The game would pit Valpo (#246) against Savannah State (#245) in Savannah,GA. It might be a crappy game, but it would settle once and for all, which team is the worst team in Div.1 football. Any interest?

[milanmiracle]

Well, I am happy to have such a positive start to the season. I was only available to watch the last 20 seconds of regulation but I really liked the play by Kenny in OT. Specifically when he took Stigall off the dribble out of the time out. I don't know if that was a Bryce decision or not, but it was a good one. There was pretty much no way Stigall could defend Kenney one on one. The and 1 was a nice bonus.

So far this team appears to be turning the corner

[grad66]

BTW, where is setshot now with his 'Butler is heads and shoulders above Valpo all the time, every time' crap?

:)Good thought here.  Or just maybe "silence is Golden"?? 8)

[Crusader03]

Now that the football season has bowled up, a friend of mine and I are trying to interest Savannah State in hosting the Toilet Bowl. The game would pit Valpo (#246) against Savannah State (#245) in Savannah,GA. It might be a crappy game, but it would settle once and for all, which team is the worst team in Div.1 football. Any interest?

It must be fun being you.

[valpo84]

Setshot, I'm there if you are hosting us at Augusta during the trip.

[wh]

I was having lunch out with my wife last Sat. and she started telling me about this car she really likes.  I should have known better, but I suggested that we drive over to the dealership and take a look at it.  In my mind I was thinking 15 min. of window shopping and home in plenty of time for the game.  The next thing I knew we were inside negotiating with the general manager.  In the blink of an eye 15 minutes turned into an hour.  By then the game was well into the first half, and I was stuck.  Somewhere in the discussion I made mention that I was missing the Valpo-Butler game and wondered what the score was.  The guy's eyes lit up - lo and behold he was a Butler alum.  Next thing you know, he had Todd up on the internet and we listened together while we worked a deal.  He was a all around good guy and as passionate about the Bulldogs as I am about the Crusaders.  We had a good time listening together. 

This is all preface for a question.  Fans on the Butler board keep ripping on Richie Edwards.  I thought it was just his tats, but apparently they are also saying that he was taunting the crowd, as well. (I should say either the crowd - or Butler players.)  Did anyone see anything on TV or in person?   

[vu84v2]

There was nothing on the Butler TV broadcast showing Edwards taunting nor did the "high quality" Butler announcers say anything negative about Edwards.

[IrishDawg]

It was after a free throw in the first half.  The Butler Students at the end he was shooting on were chanting "Mr. Clean" while he was shooting.  After he hit the shot (and I'll be honest I didn't see exactly what his gesture was because I was looking down court to see how Butler was going to set up), but he did something that got a reaction out of the students (I think he may have rubbed his head and then swung his hand towards the students as he was backing up, but I didn't see the face he might have been making).  I thought it was just dumb and senseless because A) It's the first half, if you hit one in the waning seconds to help your team win it, then okay, yuck it up big fella and B) Now the students know you're listening to them, so now they've got an entire year to think up of stuff for you.

I think the bigger issue was that there was another play (you can read over at the Butler Board for more details) in which Edwards supposedly grabbed Aldridge and threw him on the ground.  Now, I know I didn't see this play, but apparently others did and weren't happy about it.


All in all, probably not too much to concern yourselves with (unless someone can show on the video where he threw Aldridge down or can give more specifics).

Definitely didn't have anything to do with the tats, our players have plenty of them.

[covufan]

Setshot, I'm there if you are hosting us at Augusta during the trip.

Does Valpo have an Alumni with a membership at Augusta?  If Setshot is hosting at Augusta, I might head to that game as well.

[agibson]

It was after a free throw in the first half.  The Butler Students at the end he was shooting on were chanting "Mr. Clean" while he was shooting.  After he hit the shot (and I'll be honest I didn't see exactly what his gesture was because I was looking down court to see how Butler was going to set up), but he did something that got a reaction out of the students (I think he may have rubbed his head and then swung his hand towards the students as he was backing up, but I didn't see the face he might have been making).

I read somewhere (live blog? newspaper article?) that he sort of shushed the crowd.  It made me think of a "single finger over the lips" motion.  Didn't sound very offensive, but the piece I read was probably from a Valpo perspective.

I thought it was just dumb and senseless because A) It's the first half, if you hit one in the waning seconds to help your team win it, then okay, yuck it up big fella and B) Now the students know you're listening to them, so now they've got an entire year to think up of stuff for you.

Yeah, I'd think it's probably better not to interact with them at all.  Unless, maybe, you're _really_ confident, and they _can't_ get to you.  I've never performed athletically in front of a big crowd - I'm not sure how hard it is to deal with taunts, etc. from the crowd.  But, it seems like it's probably better to let it roll off your back.  I don't know - maybe some players can extract fuel from it.

[valpotx]

I always had fun interacting with the crowd when pitching in HS.  We had some large crowds at our baseball games of maybe 1,000+ every now and then (a lot for HS baseball), and they were very vocal.  A nice finger over your lips to quiet them after an inning, or a good few fist pumps will get them nice and worked up lol.  I didn't do this in college of course, as Twenge would have killed me .  If you are going to do something like this, you must only do it in a situation where you know you will win.  If you end up losing, you just look so stupid!

[vu84v2]

While I think it best for players to just stay calm and ignore the crowds, it is interesting to think that we expect players to remain calm and not react despite ever increasing intensity and creativity towards visiting players from student sections.  The players are human - so I think you need to grant them a little leeway (the shhh is probably ok...though again I would advise not to react at all - and just remember that it is the reverse when you play at home).

In Lawrence, the students in unison will repeatedly shout "you let the whole team down" when a player on the opposing team makes a major mistake.  Similar chants are made at other schools.  Nothing dirty here, so you shouldn't stop it - but again we need to realize that players are human beings.  We probably wouldn't respond well if we made a mistake in our jobs, etc. where we felt really bad and we had a bunch of people from our competitor publicly reminding us.