12/3/11, 1:00pm: Butler Game Thread

[sectionee]

I thought the USA chant directed at KVW was clever.  Edwards didn't do himself any favors after silencing their students then air balling a 3 pointer immediately after.

[StlVUFan]

It was after a free throw in the first half.  The Butler Students at the end he was shooting on were chanting "Mr. Clean" while he was shooting.  After he hit the shot (and I'll be honest I didn't see exactly what his gesture was because I was looking down court to see how Butler was going to set up), but he did something that got a reaction out of the students (I think he may have rubbed his head and then swung his hand towards the students as he was backing up, but I didn't see the face he might have been making).  I thought it was just dumb and senseless because A) It's the first half, if you hit one in the waning seconds to help your team win it, then okay, yuck it up big fella and B) Now the students know you're listening to them, so now they've got an entire year to think up of stuff for you.

I think the bigger issue was that there was another play (you can read over at the Butler Board for more details) in which Edwards supposedly grabbed Aldridge and threw him on the ground.  Now, I know I didn't see this play, but apparently others did and weren't happy about it.


All in all, probably not too much to concern yourselves with (unless someone can show on the video where he threw Aldridge down or can give more specifics).

Definitely didn't have anything to do with the tats, our players have plenty of them.

I'd love to go back and look, but I don't believe there's full video in the archive, is there?  I checked for a couple of days but only saw the highlight package.

As for the shushing the crowd, I don't see how anyone should offended by that.  I can see where it wasn't smart.  I can see where he set himself up for taunting when he airballed the 3 afterwards.  I cannot see Butler fans being offended by it, especially since it was in response to the taunting by the student section.  That would be incredibly thin-skinned of them, and I'd like to think that's beneath the Dawg Pound.

[valporun]

Stl, if I remember correctly, the Horizon League has never archived the Horizon League games that happen before January 1st. I don't understand why they don't archive those games. I hope that policy changes soon.

[valpopal]

Edwards on his physical play and friendly give and take with opposing fans:

"I know the limit you can take it to, when it goes from friendly fun to crossing the line," he said. "I feel I've never crossed the line. I don't want to represent my family and my school like that. It's just a friendly competition, and that's the level I'm going to keep it at."

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/9287905-419/edwards-a-feisty-physical-force-for-crusaders.html

[govalpogo]

You can find the "entire game" (minus the blackout that occurred) at http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18907629  I believe that the Edwards incident is during the blackout though.

[johnestuff]

It was after a free throw in the first half.  The Butler Students at the end he was shooting on were chanting "Mr. Clean" while he was shooting. give more specifics).

Isn't the first time he has heard this retort. It was used by Kathleen, Lakeland's closest rival. He enjoys the interaction.

[covufan]

While I think it best for players to just stay calm and ignore the crowds, it is interesting to think that we expect players to remain calm and not react despite ever increasing intensity and creativity towards visiting players from student sections.  The players are human - so I think you need to grant them a little leeway (the shhh is probably ok...though again I would advise not to react at all - and just remember that it is the reverse when you play at home).

In Lawrence, the students in unison will repeatedly shout "you let the whole team down" when a player on the opposing team makes a major mistake.  Similar chants are made at other schools.  Nothing dirty here, so you shouldn't stop it - but again we need to realize that players are human beings.  We probably wouldn't respond well if we made a mistake in our jobs, etc. where we felt really bad and we had a bunch of people from our competitor publicly reminding us.

I remember when Steve Stipanovich of Missouri basketball had accidently shot himself, but initially blamed in on a masked intruder.  When he went on the road, the other student sections would bring fake guns (or draw them) and say something about his shooting. 

[lowposter]

Nice article on Edwards and how the team is playing a bit more physical.  Homer tended to coach a non physical type of style, or perhaps it was the players he recruited. 

It appears Bryce is taking it up a notch or two.

lowpstr

[crusaderjoe]

Nothing here related to the game at all--just wanted to express well wishes for both rlh and '72 on your respective health battles.  Good luck to you both as you move forward!

[StlVUFan]

Stl, if I remember correctly, the Horizon League has never archived the Horizon League games that happen before January 1st. I don't understand why they don't archive those games. I hope that policy changes soon.

The Loyola-Milwaukee or UIC-Milwaukee game is archived.

[Crusader03]

Nice article on Edwards and how the team is playing a bit more physical.  Homer tended to coach a non physical type of style, or perhaps it was the players he recruited. 

It appears Bryce is taking it up a notch or two.

lowpstr

Simply look at last year's key "post" player and compare him to Richie and you'll have all the proof you need.

[valpo84]

Good article on Richie and physical play. And Bryce's comments are so true. I remember there was a game at YSU back in those days when they were holding him, bumping him, grabbing his jersey so he couldn't get the ball. Then they called a phantom illegal screen on Tony V way up high. We were up in arms. We managed to pull it out by a couple. Still hate going to Penguin Palace (which, by the way, is a far worse gym than the ARC).

[milanmiracle]

Good article on Richie and physical play. And Bryce's comments are so true. I remember there was a game at YSU back in those days when they were holding him, bumping him, grabbing his jersey so he couldn't get the ball. Then they called a phantom illegal screen on Tony V way up high. We were up in arms. We managed to pull it out by a couple. Still hate going to Penguin Palace (which, by the way, is a far worse gym than the ARC).

Which by the way is a far worse program than Valpo's. Can't verify the gym either way, but is YSU a comparison for anything but football?

[vu72]

Speaking of Butler, they just lost again, this time to Ball State, on the road--by 3 points I think.

[agibson]

You can find the "entire game" (minus the blackout that occurred) at http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18907629  I believe that the Edwards incident is during the blackout though.

What I see there is maybe just _after_ the blackout?  From 12 minutes left in the second half.  It does have about an hour of footage, including overtime.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see what seems to be a change in HL archiving policy.  I wonder if it comes with the switch to Ustream.  And, I wonder a little, if it's even deliberate.

In the past we heard vague, maybe occasionally clearly stated, statements about the risk that the footage would be used for scouting by opposing teams.  It always seemed like a weak argument to me; but, maybe, lower profile teams wouldn't have easy access other footage, or maybe Valpo itself is low enough profile that it's not so easy to get footage of us. 

Of course, if an opposing team _really_ wanted an archive, of course, they could "just" record the live stream.  So, the policy might well have hurt fans more than it hurt the opposition. 

[valporun]

You can find the "entire game" (minus the blackout that occurred) at http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18907629  I believe that the Edwards incident is during the blackout though.

What I see there is maybe just _after_ the blackout?  From 12 minutes left in the second half.  It does have about an hour of footage, including overtime.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see what seems to be a change in HL archiving policy.  I wonder if it comes with the switch to Ustream.  And, I wonder a little, if it's even deliberate.

In the past we heard vague, maybe occasionally clearly stated, statements about the risk that the footage would be used for scouting by opposing teams.  It always seemed like a weak argument to me; but, maybe, lower profile teams wouldn't have easy access other footage, or maybe Valpo itself is low enough profile that it's not so easy to get footage of us. 

Of course, if an opposing team _really_ wanted an archive, of course, they could "just" record the live stream.  So, the policy might well have hurt fans more than it hurt the opposition. 

I don't see what difference it really makes. Aren't colleges required to exchange game tape anyway?

[FWalum]

I don't see what difference it really makes. Aren't colleges required to exchange game tape anyway?

Yes, they are required to do so, all of the exchange is now done on the cloud.  Video of the games are downloaded from file sharing sites. They are not relying on streaming video.

[agibson]

Interesting... why wouldn't these be made available to fans?

[valporun]

Coaches don't use streaming video because they know that some of the schools use the video streams going thru the video board to show the fans watching online. The coaches don't want to see replays of things that would block what is happening on the court at that moment. This is why teams keep their own video, and don't rely on tv stations or stadium video boards,  because they know what other teams need the scouting video for.