2022 Valparaiso Football

[vu84v2]

Valpo would be a sleeping giant in small town football as it's the only show in town much like Wabash in Crawfordsville or DePauw in Greencastle.

Problem is the administration has always pushed for Basketball to be breadwinner. But they haven't been near top of conference going on 8 years.

University did Pony up the money to extend Cecchini after 7 win season to their credit . He just so happen has gone about 6-40 since and spurned them on signing day

With all due respect, football at Valpo has no potential to be a significant breadwinner (i.e., generator of margin dollars) relative to basketball. If a football team were undefeated and made the FCS tournament, the revenue would be a small fraction of the revenue for a basketball team in the middle or bottom of the MVC (or the Horizon League). Valpo football does do a good job of attracting scholar-athletes who pay tuition and wish to continue their football career - so being competitive in the Pioneer League is the most realistic objective.

[usc4valpo]

16 - basketball should always be the priority at Valparaiso. The football program is non scholarship,and it's main purpose is to promote male student enrollment. This has been acknowledged by several people, including Padilla. that being said, it appears Fox has the program in the right direction. The question is, once they are successful, where will Fox go for the next level?

[valpofb16]

Vu84 are you counting the 110 tuitions from the football team in your margin that would otherwise not be at the University?

Because I can promise you if you include tuition. Football generates more money than basketball.

So yes if you ignore potential alumni donations, their tuition, and their paid games......

I get the basketball truthers in here but if you can man a 110 man non scholarship football team there is much room for growth. Look no further than in state competition

Side note on Fox: his Dayton teams competed with MVC and Patriot league. Probably a few winning records and he's a DC FBS or HC FCS

[David81]

Valpo would be a sleeping giant in small town football as it's the only show in town much like Wabash in Crawfordsville or DePauw in Greencastle.

Problem is the administration has always pushed for Basketball to be breadwinner. But they haven't been near top of conference going on 8 years.

University did Pony up the money to extend Cecchini after 7 win season to their credit . He just so happen has gone about 6-40 since and spurned them on signing day

Had Cecchini stayed at VU at least a few years longer, he could've built a foundation of stability within the program and gained additional head coaching experience. I wonder if he regrets his decision in view of his Bucknell record.

[vu72]

Vu84 are you counting the 110 tuitions from the football team in your margin that would otherwise not be at the University?

Because I can promise you if you include tuition. Football generates more money than basketball.

So yes if you ignore potential alumni donations, their tuition, and their paid games......

I get the basketball truthers in here but if you can man a 110 man non scholarship football team there is much room for growth. Look no further than in state competition

Side note on Fox: his Dayton teams competed with MVC and Patriot league. Probably a few winning records and he's a DC FBS or HC FCS

I would almost guarantee that none of the football team pay full price and some perhaps pay less than the average student. Remember that many are engineering and business students and some are even in the Nursing school. The real value is in having 110 males in school where females already are probably nearing 60/40.  Now, if we could win chamionships no doubt the stands would be a lot fuller.

[usc4valpo]

Let's be real - football brings in male students, tuition, easy cash,  and is pretty much used as an extracurricular activity. It's D3 football with no real national following. Padilla has acknowledged this. Basketball is a different story.

[valpofb16]

David81 Cecchini had a rough 2018 because he had no depth. Much of the 2016 & 2017 teams had transferred out underneath him and he is very anti portal - still is Bucknell has 0 transfers. If he stayed 2019 would have had another 55 freshman and 1 win


Football can be D3 level and still bring in a ton of revenue. See Mount Union, Saint Thomas, Wabash , Whittenberg. To call the basketball following national right now is quite the stretch 0 games on ESPN, ESPN2, ABC , CBS

It is quite literally basic numbers. Basketball had maybe one 4 year senior who got way paid. Football team had 24 seniors , potential donors , and guys paying tuition. Smart ADs sure up their biggest donor base first. But I digress

[JD24]

Valpo would be a sleeping giant in small town football as it's the only show in town much like Wabash in Crawfordsville or DePauw in Greencastle. Problem is the administration has always pushed for Basketball to be breadwinner. But they haven't been near top of conference going on 8 years. University did Pony up the money to extend Cecchini after 7 win season to their credit . He just so happen has gone about 6-40 since and spurned them on signing day

Had Cecchini stayed at VU at least a few years longer, he could've built a foundation of stability within the program and gained additional head coaching experience. I wonder if he regrets his decision in view of his Bucknell record.

It was talked about on this board that the last year or so it seemed that there was something going on with Cecchini prior to his leaving. I do agree that he probably jumped ship too quickly and likely went to the wrong program with the jump.

[valpotx]

I have to believe that Cecchini's seat is on fire this season at Bucknell.  Any early struggles, and he might not last the full season

[valpofb16]

Completely algorithm based but FWIW Massey has us favored in 7/11 games.

[NotBryceDrew]

Checchini provided us with a lot and I'll always be rooting for his success. He built a decent foundation and gave us a winning season. However, Fox puts us in a much better position then having checchini still around, his retention is better (I believe), does very well in the portal, and generally seems like a better fit with the university/ area.

[usc4valpo]

Cecchni was a Pioneer coach of the year and had to inherit the Carlson trainwreck.

[valpofb16]

Agreed , we have gotten way off the rails. Let's talk 2022 Football.

QB situation Is about as unknown as I can remember. Could literally tell me 3-4 different guys start game 1


Jeffrey Jackson played the most of the returners but was situational. University of Chicago xfer , haven't seen much throwing. Was all conference there.

Teryn Berry was at Weber State and actually saw PT there. But had a 1-8 TD-INT ratio before getting benched. He has most talent / pedigree but was very bad last year.

Kaplan and Appel are the two redshirt guys. Both had multiple PFL interests. Both came from power house HS programs.

Wild card would be freshman Rowan Keefe. Had 4 PFL offers, GVSU offer, and an elite 11 regional invite.

All 5 guys were up there over the summer. I think 4/5 will play at some point this season. My gut tells me most likely Kaplan/ Berry starts with Keefe seeing time in last 4 if season goes off rails

[vu84v2]

Vu84 are you counting the 110 tuitions from the football team in your margin that would otherwise not be at the University?

Because I can promise you if you include tuition. Football generates more money than basketball.

So yes if you ignore potential alumni donations, their tuition, and their paid games......

I get the basketball truthers in here but if you can man a 110 man non scholarship football team there is much room for growth. Look no further than in state competition

Yes, I am considering the 110 tuitions. I will preface this argument by saying that I have tremendous respect for anyone who plays a D1 sport and takes on the academic rigors at a school like Valparaiso. My argument is not intended to diminish the value of any football players...it is strictly an economic argument. Assuming you sustain a minimal quality for football (and Valpo is likely above that minimal quality), you will always get the 110 students because there will always be former high school football players who wish to continue playing - but are not good enough to play at scholarship schools. Future donations from current players would likely be the same regardless of their quality as football players, though I can see how donations from former players are based (to a degree) on current performance. Paid games subsidize the football program, as long as the minimal quality threshold is met. Other revenues (ticket sales, media rights) are insignificant.

[valpofb16]

Vu84 you are very far removed from this program's realities. We do not have the minimum anymore.


Valpo has renovated weight room, locker room, indoor turf, snack/protein station, helmet shells. Attendance was great through first half of last season and homecoming was packed.


My guess is 40-60% of the roster picked Valpo over D2 & NAIA scholarship money. This is very traceable just check their twitter.


Program is on the up & up. Very wrong about donations from alumni. Carlson pretty much nixed alumni relations and this new staff has done a lot of ground work to get reconnected.


Without football funding from tuitions / pay games , many other sports would suffer financially and male enrollment would be down 15-25%.

Also rigorous academics is a bit of a joke now. 87% acceptance rate in 2022.

[vu84v2]

I think that you are missing my points about additional spending (from today's spending) yielding additional revenues - but I am glad that you are so optimistic about the program. And I am glad that the new football staff is engaging alumni....that is also happening with other sports and that can only yield positive results.

[valpofb16]

I get what you are saying but I'm responding to your original point. If you include tuitions and living expenses to the university and food payments to the union.


There is zero. I mean Ze-Ro chance that a struggling mid major basketball program. With maybe 2-3 relatively prominent alumni. And very few four year graduates, with zero national TV games are bringing in anywhere near the revenue nor donor base that a successful football program would

[vu72]

Also rigorous academics is a bit of a joke now. 87% acceptance rate in 2022.

Then two are unrelated. Getting in is one thing, getting out is another.  What did you study?

[vu84v2]

I get what you are saying but I'm responding to your original point. If you include tuitions and living expenses to the university and food payments to the union.


There is zero. I mean Ze-Ro chance that a struggling mid major basketball program. With maybe 2-3 relatively prominent alumni. And very few four year graduates, with zero national TV games are bringing in anywhere near the revenue nor donor base that a successful football program would

All universities are required to report revenues and expenses for each sport for each academic year to the US Dept. of Education (US EADA database).

For the 2020-2021 academic year (last year reported), Valpo basketball reported - Revenue: $2.019,347; Expenses: $2,158,332.

For the last year before COVID (2018-2019), Valpo basketball reported - Revenue: $2,461,689; Expenses: $2,415,050.

Revenues for basketball include everything: NCAA tournament shares, TV rights, payment for buy games, ticket sales, etc.

Valpo football's reported revenues are about 45% of basketball revenues and reported expenses are slightly lower than reported revenues, but a lot of the football revenue reported is likely tuition. Admittedly, I do not know how that is calculated for football players (some of whom get no scholarship while others get scholarships from other sources). The point is that Valpo basketball brings in a lot of revenue which, after removing tuition effects, is likely several times larger than football revenue. Additionally (and, again, this is an economics argument that is not intended to diminish the value of football players), the model for Valpo football is driven by the number of tuition paying football players.

[valpofb16]

So basketball made 46k in 2019 and lost over 130k in 2021?

Im getting that football is less revenue but much more of an opportunity to profit and if you include tuition. It probably profits much more than basketball.

Also Major was Mech Engineeeing switch to Crim/Soc. Now back in Mech Engineering. My major really has nothing to do with loss of majors, sports, enrollment , grad schools, endowment. Etc etc

[vu84v2]

So basketball made 46k in 2019 and lost over 130k in 2021?

Im getting that football is less revenue but much more of an opportunity to profit and if you include tuition. It probably profits much more than basketball.

Also Major was Mech Engineeeing switch to Crim/Soc. Now back in Mech Engineering. My major really has nothing to do with loss of majors, sports, enrollment , grad schools, endowment. Etc etc

2020-2021 is an outlier, given COVID. NCAA payouts were less, attendance was still less, etc. We'll see what 2021-2022 looks like. That is why I posted the last pre-pandemic numbers as they represent a typical year for basketball. Investment has a greater likelihood of increasing revenues if it yields winning.

Football is profitable, but that is solely due to the impact of tuition from non-scholarship athletes. Since you would always get ~100 players regardless of whether the program wins (assuming a minimum level of quality for facilities, etc. is met), investing more would not increase profits.

[usc4valpo]

If Valpo football, a non-scholarship Division 1 in name only program, and it significantly in the red for whatever reason, then we have serious program where perhaps the sport needs to go away. Ona national level, no one cares about Valpo football. I go to Valpo football games at Drake, and other than football parents, no Valpo alums go to the game. For basketball, we will at least 50 non basketball parents who attend - they would definitely get more if the program was better.

As for basketball, it is a name recognition - in the competitive MVC, more success in the past 40 years - and more interest than football.

As for football facilities and engagement, it has gotten better, but we are below par compared to other schools in the Pioneer. The press box looks like something from Our Gang episodes. No pep band at games - you get music between possessions and timeouts. Old scoreboard and old stands. Also, when you say a game is packed, are we talking 5000? 4000? maybe 3000?

[vu72]

Football is profitable, but that is solely due to the impact of tuition from non-scholarship athletes. Since you would always get ~100 players regardless of whether the program wins (assuming a minimum level of quality for facilities, etc. is met), investing more would not increase profits.

Football attendance last year averaged 2480 per game (five games at home)  if 75% of the total were paying for a $10 ticket the revenue--excluding concessions--would be $93,000.  The pay game at North Dakota State brought in $240,000.

[JD24]

Is there a Did Not Report list for commits that never got on the bus? In the past this has been as many as 5 or 6.

[historyman]

Is there a Did Not Report list for commits that never got on the bus? In the past this has been as many as 5 or 6.