Butler vs Valparaiso MBB game 2011

[historyman]

[/t][/t][/t][/t][/size]EventReminder[/size][/font][/font][/color] [/color][/size]December 27, 2010[/t] [/color][/size]Hi Jose Padilla. just a reminder that your event is coming up! [/size][/color]Butler Bulldogs Mens Basketball vs. Valparaiso Mens Basketball [/t][/t][/t] [/color][/t][/t][/t][/t][/size]Butler Bulldogs Mens Basketball vs. Valparaiso Mens Basketball[/size][/font] [/size][/color]When:[/size][/color]Saturday, January 01, 2011  2:00pm [/size][/color]Where:[/size][/color]Hinkle Fieldhouse 510 W. 49th St. Indianapolis, IN 46208 [/t] [/size][/color] More Events You Might Enjoy[/color][/size] [/t][/t][/t][/t][/t] [/size][/color]Hinkle Fieldhouse[/t] [/color][/size]• JAN •[/size] [/color][/size]02 [/color][/size]SUN [/t][/t] [/color][/size]Butler University Bulldogs Womens Basketball V Valparaiso [/size]Hinkle Fieldhouse[/font][/t][/t] [/color][/size]Find Tickets » [/color][/size]• JAN •[/size] [/color][/size]07 [/color][/size]FRI [/t][/t] [/color][/size]Butler Bulldogs Mens Basketball vs. Cleveland State Vikings Mens Basketball [/size]Hinkle Fieldhouse[/font][/t][/t] [/color][/size]Find Tickets » [/color][/size]• JAN •[/size] [/color][/size]09 [/color][/size]SUN [/t][/t] [/color][/size]Butler Bulldogs Mens Basketball vs. Youngstown State Penguins Mens Basketball [/size]Hinkle Fieldhouse[/font][/t][/t] [/color][/size]Find Tickets » [/color][/size]• JAN •[/size] [/color][/size]13 [/color][/size]THU [/t][/t] [/color][/size]Butler University Bulldogs Womens Basketball vs. Cleveland State Vikings Womens Basketball [/size]Hinkle Fieldhouse[/font][/t][/t] [/color][/size]Find Tickets » [/color][/size]• JAN •[/size] [/color][/size]15 [/color][/size]SAT [/t][/t] [/color][/size]Butler University Bulldogs Womens Basketball vs. Youngstown State Penguins Womens Basketball [/size]Hinkle Fieldhouse[/font][/t][/t] [/color][/size]Find Tickets » [/color] [/t] [/t][/size][size=0px][/color]  [/size][/size] [size=0px][/color]Planning For Your Event[/color][/size][/size] [size=0px][/size] [size=0px][/size] [size=0px][/size] [size=0px][/color][/t][/t][/t][/size]Get driving directions[/size] [/color][/t][/size]Find a restaurant nearby [/color][/t][/size]Find out the local forecast [/size][size=0px][/color][/t][/t][/size] [size=0px][/size][/size][/color][/size] [size=0px]Brought To You By[size=0px][/size] [size=0px][/color][/t][/size][/size] [size=0px][/color]Helpful Links[/size] [size=0px][/size] [size=0px][/size] [size=0px][/size] [size=0px][/color]Get Ticket Insurance Visit Ticketmaster.com Modify your preferences Retail Outlets [/size] [size=0px][/size][size=0px][/t][/t] [/size] [/color]Browse for events:   [/color]Music     Sports     Arts & Theater     Family[/t][/t] Remember when Butler actually scheduled Valpo in Men's basketball? It seems so long ago these days.

[valpo95]

Valpo is on a four-game winning streak against Butler, so I suppose they got tired of losing.

[VUGrad1314]

To be fair, they had no choice as we were in the same conference back then. I wish we could still have the rivalry again. Maybe we can one day but we need to get to the top of the MVC on a consistent basis to have any hope of that so that should be our focus right now. Win and everything else will take care of itself.

[Valpo89]

Butler will always have a "holier than thou" attitude toward Valpo when it comes to men's basketball.
I've heard the demand has been a 4-for-1 in the past.

That being said, the juvenile obsession with the four-game winning streak from more than 10 years ago is a bit tiresome.

[vu84v2]

I am not saying that Butler shouldn't find a reasonable deal to play Valpo, but keep Butler's annual scheduling commitments in mind: double round robin in the Big East (20 games), annual crossroads game, Big East challenges with the Big Ten and Big 12, three games in a Thanksgiving tournament. That is 26 games, which does not leave a lot of other spaces in their schedule.

[valpo95]

That being said, the juvenile obsession with the four-game winning streak from more than 10 years ago is a bit tiresome.

I'm sorry that you consider this a "juvenile obsession." I am not comparing the success or status of the two programs.

This is, after all, a Valpo fan forum. I think we can respectfully poke fun at what most would consider our University's biggest rival. It also is great to do so with the facts.

[VUGrad1314]

I think a two for one is reasonable I might even stretch that to a 3 for one perhaps but a 4 for one is outlandish and we are right to reject it. If it were a 4 for 2 that would be far more palatable. They'll change their tune once we start to improve and maybe we'll find more favorable terms but if not I'm content as long as we schedule as many solid mid majors as we possibly can and rid ourselves of the non D1 games.

[historyman]

I think a two for one is reasonable I might even stretch that to a 3 for one perhaps but a 4 for one is outlandish and we are right to reject it. If it were a 4 for 2 that would be far more palatable. They'll change their tune once we start to improve and maybe we'll find more favorable terms but if not I'm content as long as we schedule as many solid mid majors as we possibly can and rid ourselves of the non D1 games.

I think it's a bit hypocritical of us to expect schools like Stanford, etc. to play us and then not play schools that we consider below us like the non D1 teams. Remember that 2 of those non D1 teams beat us last season.

[usc4valpo]

A two for one would be reasonable. I wish Valpo took advantage of the past basketball program success the way Butler did. We obviously took it for granted and blew it but that's old news. Hopefully the new AD will have the program moving in the proper direction and out of this pool of mediocrity.

[vu72]

A two for one would be reasonable. I wish Valpo took advantage of the past basketball program success the way Butler did. We obviously took it for granted and blew it but that's old news. Hopefully the new AD will have the program moving in the proper direction and out of this pool of mediocrity.

Hold on a minute here. True, Butler made two final four runs thanks mostly to Brad Stevens and lucky recruiting in the form of Matt Howard and two NBA players.  We went on to six NCAA appearances and three NIT spots.  Have you looked at Butler's record of late?  They have been in the Big East for several years and most recently have finished last or second last, thus the firing of their coach.  Did we "take advantage" of our success? For Sure. We have, as a result of that success, moved up two conferences. Both teams are in the process of rebuilding.

[usc4valpo]

Butler has had significantly more success than Valpo, period. In regards to luck, Valpo was also lucky to have a 4-star son of the head coach and a dedicated father-son coaching team. They may be rebuilding but they are unbiasedly and currently a better program  than Valpo.

[JD24]

Whatever one thinks of the viability of the two programs....Valpo may consider Butler a rival in Basketball. Question is does Butler consider Valpo a rival in Basketball?

[valpo95]

Whatever one thinks of the viability of the two programs....Valpo may consider Butler a rival in Basketball. Question is does Butler consider Valpo a rival in Basketball?

I doubt that their basketball fans would consider us their main rival. However, the universities would probably consider themselves rivals/competitors, and certainly the football teams would consider each other rivals.

[tjn2004]

As far as we've tumbled from our peak of the pre-Lottich era (our peak was approximately 5 seconds before Bryce said "I love my job" while already having been in touch with Vandy)...


One could argue Butler has tumbled just as far.  Back to back runs to the finals, to an also-ran in their conference that everyone has almost forgotten about.  Kids they're recruiting now were barely old enough to remember those trips to the finals.


Those 4 straight wins that were admonished above kind of broke them.  From the finals to the CBI because of those 4, and then they ran off to the A10 then Big East where the travel expenses for the non-rev sports are insane.  Yet as their basketball fell back to earth they're no longer the trendy thing to do in Indy, so they don't have the basketball money flowing like they did when they started playing musical conferences.

[AB]

The same 8-12 programs are always in the mix, year in and year out. Gonzaga is the one outlier of sustained success for smaller universities. Loyola is moving up, good luck! SFA, Butler, Loyola, VCU's, Davidson's all have their runs for a minute, but then back down to earth. What Mac school has had sustained success in Basketball?
Butler is more important to us as a rivalry than it is to Butler. I agree with the poster earlier. Their schedule doesn't leave much room for us and they have had better success over the last 20 years. We should take a 2-1 if we get it. A sweet 16 or two appearance might help our leverage in scheduling. At least we own them in Football of late. 5 outta 6 in the Hoosier Helmet!

[VUGrad1314]

I don't know if VCU or Davidson are necessarily great arguments for this even though the general point is solid. Sure, they haven't consistently hit that Final 4\Elite 8 mark but they are in the mix for at large bids year in and year out and are dangerous opponents for any school in round one if they do make it in. Moreover, they often have the potential to be more than that even if that potential is rarely realized. At the mid major level that's pretty close to as good as it gets. Stephen F Austin I would love to see prove it in a better league just as Loyola is getting their shot to do now. If we could find a suitable travel companion to stretch the footprint down to Texas I would love to see them in the MVC. Great program.

[VUGrad1314]

Apparently the A-10 is also going the route as well (scrapping good regional rivalries that fanbases care about on the altar of potentially pursuing higher NET ratings) as it sounds like both  VCU and Richmond are going to be cancelling their series with Old Dominion since they believe that the move from CUSA to the Sun Belt is going to hurt their metrics and thereby harm the A-10 schools' SOS. It's sad because I want to consider the A-10 and MVC peer leagues but it's hard to do that when the A-10 poaches the MVC's best program of the past five years and no national observers seem to back up the assertion. Even many of the rankings aren't really with me on it.

[vu72]

I want to consider the A-10 and MVC peer leagues but it's hard to do that when the A-10 poaches the MVC's best program of the past five years and no national observers seem to back up the assertion. Even many of the rankings aren't really with me on it.

If they aren't peer leagues they will be soon. They took Loyola but Loyola won't be nearly as good as they have been with the loss of their substantial graduating class.  As for the Valley, we pick up TWO power house mid-major programs.  Even as of the end of last year Sagarin had the A-10 ranked 10th and the Valley 11th.  That is pretty peer to me!

The Loyola move makes no sense to me.  A lateral move and a HUGE increase in travel expenses for the department.

[VUGrad1314]

I want to consider the A-10 and MVC peer leagues but it's hard to do that when the A-10 poaches the MVC's best program of the past five years and no national observers seem to back up the assertion. Even many of the rankings aren't really with me on it.

If they aren't peer leagues they will be soon. They took Loyola but Loyola won't be nearly as good as they have been with the loss of their substantial graduating class.  As for the Valley, we pick up TWO power house mid-major programs.  Even as of the end of last year Sagarin had the A-10 ranked 10th and the Valley 11th.  That is pretty peer to me! The Loyola move makes no sense to me.  A lateral move and a HUGE increase in travel expenses for the department.

I don't look at Sagarin enough. I give too much weight to the NET which is what the committee uses. I think we made the best additions we could (I think UIC will be a factor in a few years' time. They certainly have the money for it. I'm a bit worried about Belmont because they tend to sputter at times during the season even against the OVC schedule but I think ultimately they will be fine).  The Loyola move in my opinion has so much to do with factors that go beyond basketball. I believe the A-10 has something like 11 private institutions and 4 (with Loyola) Jesuit schools. In addition it is in markets all up and down the East Coast (Philadelphia New York City Washington DC etc.) which is great for recruiting. Sure the travel expenses have gone up but Loyola has the resources to cover that while getting a big boost in out of state tuition dollars institutional fit and at the very least no downgrade for hoops. I totally understand why they made the move  even though I really didn't like it as a fan of the MVC and wanting that potential rivalry for us to remain intact. On a tangentially related note, I love that Murray and Belmont are moving together. It's so nice to see a rivalry actually get preserved through realignment for once instead of discarded. I think both fanbases will really appreciate this and it will make the transition for both schools easier as well as making the league better.

[vu84v2]

I am not worried at all about Belmont and Murray State. Consistently strong programs who have a history of hiring good coaches and (at least with Murray State) a history of hiring good new coaches when successful coaches move on. Both programs also have a knack for finding hidden talent that fits their system and developing that talent. UIC concerns me some as there has never really been a connection between students and the basketball program.

For Loyola, I think that it is all about who they want their peers to be. Loyola wants to be in a peer group with Marquette, Butler, Creighton, Xavier, Saint Louis, and DePaul (and this goes far beyond basketball). They are actually doing a pretty good job with that.

There are four Jesuit universities in the A10: Saint Louis, St Joseph's, Fordham and now Loyola. Ironically, there are also four in the Big East and four in the WCC.

[VUGrad1314]

I am not worried at all about Belmont and Murray State. Consistently strong programs who have a history of hiring good coaches and (at least with Murray State) a history of hiring good new coaches when successful coaches move on. Both programs also have a knack for finding hidden talent that fits their system and developing that talent. UIC concerns me some as there has never really been a connection between students and the basketball program.

The case for UIC is that they have a chance to be another Loyola because of their deep pockets. Admittedly it is far less likely because they don't have the history Loyola has but there is a path where we see UIC become consistently competitive in the Valley. If they can even just be a Q2 road game for teams year in and year out that's a win for the conference as long as Murray and Belmont pull their weight.  UIC has also never played with so many in-state schools. Considering that I believe most of their students come from Illinois this could be the spark that ignites the connection between the program and the students especially if they can start winning some games. It's also very possible that they become a perennial bottom half team that is only useful for giving the league a presence in Chicago but I am trying to see the optimistic case here.

[usc4valpo]

There are more Catholic universities in the A10, thus perhaps it may be a fit for Loyola. Not sure moving to the A10 is a promotion in conferences.