First up - Toledo Rockets 11/7 at Savage Arena 6pm CT

[tjjvalpo]

I think Toledo stepped off the gas in the second half. Krikke shot 2/12 in the first have with 4 turnovers. He played much better in the second half. Also, Nick Edwards was a lot more aggressive in the second half. I don't think he took a single shot or maybe just one shot in the first half. We were also short handed without Rudiger's aggressive defense and Nelson wasn't available, as well. Besides Barrett and Bayu already being out probably until after Winter break.

[Valpo Joe]

Yaada yaada yaada 

[RS]

Come on.  First game with basically a new squad that have to learn to play together.  Toledo is a damn fine team. Deep in talent and will probably win the MAC. Yes the first half was hard to watch but play in the second half was much better. Krikke and King played as expected and it was good to see Green put up 20 points and going 5 for 8 in 3 point shooting. The guys looked nervous at first. Lets give them a few more games before all the negatives roll in. The offense is still a big question mark.

[JBC1824]

I don't think there is any coming back from the point we are as a program. Assuming we fire have a new coach after this year, what is there to recruit on? No recent success, bad facilities, dwindling public support.

Very much agree. The program is dead for the foreseeable future.

And it cannot possibly be overstated how big of a mistake it was leaving the Horizon League for the MVC. We cannot compete in the MVC.

Some may not like to admit all of this, but they're kidding themselves.

[mj]

I watched the first half and then turned it off. New faces committing the same mistakes as in previous years. No game plan and poor execution. Clearly we just need to keep driving into the lane when they have two guys there so we can either 1) throw up a wild shot or 2) turn the ball over. 

Toledo is a good mid-major team. And we were outclassed by them up and down. I fear that we're in for a rough season in the MVC.

[VUGrad1314]

Stepping up to the MVC was not a mistake just on the tournament money alone. Moreover outside of men's basketball we are showing the ability to compete at the MVC level. Our volleyball team has posted some outstanding results and our women's soccer team just won the conference. We're doing fine.  Our flagship program hiring a coach completely unprepared for the job on the hopes of one last glorious run during the Peters era before we moved conferences however was a mistake. That decision is the entire reason we are where we are today. It would have been better to conduct a national search and find the best candidate after Powell turned us down. I have no doubt the program would be much better off in the MVC today if they had done that.

[oklahomamick]

Spot on VU grad. 

[AlaskaCrusader19]

What a terrible performance. No doubt, Toledo is one of the better mid-majors out there, but I remember when Valparaiso was as well. I want to believe that things will get better, but outside of one weekend in March 2020, there hasn't been much positive over the past five plus seasons. I hope Padilla and Small want to win as badly as us fans do.

[elephtheria47]

Woof.

Valpo can compete in the MVC, it chooses not to. Going to the MVC was not a mistake, but going while running with the same strategy as the HL is the mistake. At least we are still playing in a meaningful conference and as someone has said, we get NCAAT money from it.

I turned it off at halftime I couldnt watch anymore. We had no business being on the court with Toledo last night. How far we have fallen. CBB is all about momentum and...well, we havent had any in years.

[vu72]

Well. as usual, we had four scholarship players riding the pines.  They basically beat us at the foul line, making 13 to our 4.  I certainly was impressed with Green.  Clearly we were a team not used to playing together and I have hope that we will get there with some games under our belts.  Ben looked great IN THE SECOND HALF and Cam looked like a deer in the head lights.  Overall very solid point guard play.  I too will give it a few games before calling it a lost cause.  hey!  The Women won!

[VUGrad1314]

Just in case anybody truly misses being in the HL I invite you to review the scores from around that league last night. I really hate bagging on other conferences but I mean would you seriously miss THIS even if it resulted in more wins for VU?

The HL had ONE D1 win last night. ONE. Youngstown State over Canisius 92-81. Every other win was over a non-D1.  The other highlight was PFW (Who looks like they should be good the move to a more geographically friendly conference seems to have really helped them) keeping it semi-close against Michigan and losing by 19 75-56. Moreover, their one D1 win was matched by Cleveland State--last year's REGULAR SEASON CHAMPION mind you--losing to Non-D1 Notre Dame college at home 72-68. Other notes around the league:

Ohio State ripped Robert Morris by 38 91-53

Iowa State demolished IUPUI by 49 88-39

Northern Kentucky lost to Kent State at home by 22 79-57 (Kent State is a good program they won the MAC last year but it's not a good look to get blown out like that on your home floor especially when NKU has been a strong program of late).

And of course there's Green Bay getting throttled by a mid-pack MVC team (Indiana State) by 27 80-53.

Granted the MVC had a pretty sizable slipup with Illinois State losing to Western Illinois at home 71-68 but at least our biggest slipup was against a D1 team  in the first game of a new coach's tenure. If you seriously miss this, and you don't enjoy what we have by comparison (a conference where teams do well in the non conference and can potentially make at large cases and win tournament games) even if it results in less success for Valpo individually then your interest was not in seeing Valpo grow as a program and you were fine with being a one and done low seed tournament team at best. I wanted more. And I hope most of the rest of the fanbase still feels the same way.

[chgovalpofan]

The mere mention of saying the Horizon League is better to be at than the MVC is laughable.  Besides, the Horizon League barely resembles the conference Valpo left.

I really enjoyed watching Green play.  The offense should move through Kobe every time.  He can be so fun to watch and can get it done.   I didn't expect Valpo to win. Toledo is good.  But I do want to see that the boys are prepared to play and utilize the talent on the floor.  Having four players out....again.... is a huge red flag.  That should not be a norm, yet it seems like it is.  Will Barrett ever play a full season?

Side note: I didn't catch much of the Loyola game, but I did catch Sheldon's game winning shot. Classic Sheldon.

[vuny98]

I see the doom and gloomers are out in full force.

Here is what I saw.
HORRIBLE start, we fell behind and were never able to catch up. Look at the game flow, after the bad start we kept up with Toledo the whole game.
Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential. Hard game to win regardless.
Valpo has a very new team, I didn't expect we come out looking amazing game 1.
Our two stars played fairly well, three new starters played well. A positive that we should look at as a good sign as the team gels.

[AlaskaCrusader19]

I see the doom and gloomers are out in full force. Here is what I saw. HORRIBLE start, we fell behind and were never able to catch up. Look at the game flow, after the bad start we kept up with Toledo the whole game. Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential. Hard game to win regardless. Valpo has a very new team, I didn't expect we come out looking amazing game 1. Our two stars played fairly well, three new starters played well. A positive that we should look at as a good sign as the team gels.

[/size]I mean, Valpo stuck with them once the game was already over and Toledo could take their foot off the pedal. At no point did Valpo look competitive last night.

[mj]

I'm also concerned about Krikke's comments after the game saying they weren't ready either mentally, physically, or emotionally. And that they came in there thinking the game would be easy.

That's an indictment of Lottich and shows the coaches have failed the players.

[valpopal]

I see the doom and gloomers are out in full force.

Here is what I saw.
HORRIBLE start, we fell behind and were never able to catch up. Look at the game flow, after the bad start we kept up with Toledo the whole game.
Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential. Hard game to win regardless.
Valpo has a very new team, I didn't expect we come out looking amazing game 1.
Our two stars played fairly well, three new starters played well. A positive that we should look at as a good sign as the team gels.

Can you blame "the doom and gloomers"? Every season we're asked to ignore the obvious and look for "a good sign." "Toledo is very good, Top 25 potential": that should be a quote about Valpo, a once respected mid-major team that unfortunately has lost its luster, to put it mildly. Instead, after witnessing the past five years of mediocrity (to be generous) with great frustration, I repeat what I wrote on this board in March: "I will not believe in progress until I witness victory on the court. I no longer give Valpo basketball any benefit of the doubt that I once did. Unfortunately, the trust this program fostered in fans for so long has now been squandered."   

[AlaskaCrusader19]

I'm also concerned about Krikke's comments after the game saying they weren't ready either mentally, physically, or emotionally. And that they came in there thinking the game would be easy. That's an indictment of Lottich and shows the coaches have failed the players.

I agree with you on this. Valpo was a 13-point underdog and they had a losing season last year. Why would they think anything would be easy short of Trinity Christian?

[David81]

Just in case anybody truly misses being in the HL I invite you to review the scores from around that league last night. I really hate bagging on other conferences but I mean would you seriously miss THIS even if it resulted in more wins for VU?

The HL had ONE D1 win last night. ONE. Youngstown State over Canisius 92-81. Every other win was over a non-D1.  The other highlight was PFW (Who looks like they should be good the move to a more geographically friendly conference seems to have really helped them) keeping it semi-close against Michigan and losing by 19 75-56. Moreover, their one D1 win was matched by Cleveland State--last year's REGULAR SEASON CHAMPION mind you--losing to Non-D1 Notre Dame college at home 72-68. Other notes around the league:

Ohio State ripped Robert Morris by 38 91-53

Iowa State demolished IUPUI by 49 88-39

Northern Kentucky lost to Kent State at home by 22 79-57 (Kent State is a good program they won the MAC last year but it's not a good look to get blown out like that on your home floor especially when NKU has been a strong program of late).

And of course there's Green Bay getting throttled by a mid-pack MVC team (Indiana State) by 27 80-53.

Granted the MVC had a pretty sizable slipup with Illinois State losing to Western Illinois at home 71-68 but at least our biggest slipup was against a D1 team  in the first game of a new coach's tenure. If you seriously miss this, and you don't enjoy what we have by comparison (a conference where teams do well in the non conference and can potentially make at large cases and win tournament games) even if it results in less success for Valpo individually then your interest was not in seeing Valpo grow as a program and you were fine with being a one and done low seed tournament team at best. I wanted more. And I hope most of the rest of the fanbase still feels the same way.

Good points about the current Horizon League MBB lineup, and good points by others about other VU sports teams being able to compete in the Valley.

But as for this edition of VU men's hoops, the giveaway for me is the non-conference schedule overall, as has been hashed out on this board since they announced it. Toledo and a couple of others capture what a respectable Valley team should be playing for its non-conference slate. But this year's non-conference lineup overall reminds me of VU MBB from before Homer Drew began producing 20-win seasons. It smacks of a program going backwards.

I don't know how much longer this can continue. DI is littered with teams that serving as pre-conference cannon fodder for P5 schools and W-L builders for quality mid-majors. VU is becoming one of them.

[JD24]

6 free throws isn't going to get it done. 17 turnovers isn't going to get it done when the opponent has half that many and, not surprisingly, ends up with 10 more shots in the game. 20 minutes and 2 shots, no points and 2 assists from a backup PG isn't going to get it done. How about a short glance at the basket once in a while?

Shot well (which I don't think is a given with this team) and still lost by 15.

Not good. I don't and didn't expect it to turn around in game 1 vs a team which would likely win a MVC title but there are a lot of signs of the same ol' same ol'.

[ValpoFan]

Argument 1 - Valpo has a new team

When was the last time Valpo didn't have a new team? and why is that the case?

Argument 2 - Toledo is a good mid-major

Great! why is Valpo NOT a good mid-major?

Argument 3 - Krikke: We were not prepared and we thought it would be easy

Why were you not prepared? and whose fault is that?
Also, you almost lost to Cedarville at home!!! What makes you think that @Toledo would be easy?

Now here is the real question. What makes anyone think that Lottich is a good D1 coach?
When I look at his resume, I see 3 years of coaching under Bryce Drew followed by 6 years of disappointments and finding excuses. Is that the best Valpo can do?

[78crusader]

Before we haul out the pitchforks and torches, could we at least wait until this team has played more than ONE game?

Paul

[chgovalpofan]

The fact that they, the players, felt unprepared is a direct reflection of the coaching.  As I have said it is no surprise Toledo won, but seriously....they were unprepared?? What were they doing all summer? And all fall?  I strongly believe that a good coach would make the us respectable.   Some coaches have it and others don't.  Personally, I am not sure lack of experience is the biggest problem.  Less experienced coaches with the ability to teach, lead, and construct creative offenses/defenses would be more successful.

[vuny98]

I don't think anyone is arguing that it was a good game. Or that anyone is happy with the state of Valpo basketball right now.

But before 5 mins were through on the game, we had people saying coach needs to be fired now, season is over and there is no coming back from where the program is at.

Lottich probably should be fired, but if it didn't happen at the end of last year, it shouldn't be after the first half of the first game.

And I also wouldn't read too much into a single comment from a college kid after a hard loss. It may be true but it may have also been an in the moment reaction. (Not a defense of Lottich at all, I tend to agree his game plans sucks, but take Krikke's comment with a grain of salt)

Game sucked, long season to go.

[valpo64]

Toledo is a very good team this season, ranked #4 in Mid-Major poll and favored to win the MAC.  It was good to see an improvement in the second half, outscoring UT by 11.  It will be interesting to see how the team reacts Sunday vs. another MAC foe.

[oklahomamick]

Argument 1 - Valpo has a new team

This is every year