UNI @ the ARC January 4, 6 pm

[may know]

Connie reenrolled at VU a few years ago to take German 4 days a week in preparation of a Germany trip. She's amazing.

[valpotx]

Agreed, just give away tickets at this point, and hope for revenue via parking and concessions, while providing more of an actual home court advantage.  That is pathetic attendance

[VALPO LI]

A pathetic sub-1000 crowd figure: official attendance was 915.

Valparaiso men's basketball is dead. Someone call the coroner.

Did you hear, they are putting the band back together!!! That will put us back over the 1,000 mark for sure!

[usc4valpo]

This feels worse than the Tom Smith Hilltop Gym era. Apathy toward the program is high and I think by his expressions Lottich, although not explicitly admitting it,  wants to move on.

[beacons23]

Valpo fans and alum need to realize the Drew dynasty days are over and are not coming back
Thru blunders like moving to a conference we do not belong in as well as hiring a coach not prepared for this level of competition we have become just another team that will not be going to the tournament again and are mediocre at best.
These teams have had MUCH better success than us in the past and are in the same boat
Georgetown
DePaul
George Mason
many others
Our only way out is to go back to the Horizon league-which would help our other sports as well-

[AlaskaCrusader19]

Valpo fans and alum need to realize the Drew dynasty days are over and are not coming back
Thru blunders like moving to a conference we do not belong in as well as hiring a coach not prepared for this level of competition we have become just another team that will not be going to the tournament again and are mediocre at best.
These teams have had MUCH better success than us in the past and are in the same boat
Georgetown
DePaul
George Mason
many others
Our only way out is to go back to the Horizon league-which would help our other sports as well-

Comparing Georgetown and Valparaiso is a bit of a stretch. Georgetown was fine before Patrick Ewing ran it into the ground, where it sits today. I think it's fair to question what the ceiling is for Valpo in the MVC, but it's not easy to compare to other situations.

[vu72]

Our only way out is to go back to the Horizon league-which would help our other sports as well-

Won't happen. Would be really stupid.  We have a new AD and President.  Expect change.

As for the game, consider this as an indictment of Lottich as a coach versu a guy like Jacobsen:  UNI started 2 freshman, one of which beat us at the buzzer, 2 sophomores and 1 junior. The two guys off the bench for any time  were one freshman and one sophomore.  We, on the other hand started 3 five year guys, one senior and one freshman.  The result can only be evaluated by either poor player talent (bad recruiting) or bad coaching or both.

[valpofb16]

If you look at it through a financial scope Valpo as a whole is a dwindling business who's losing customers to the competition and is turning away repeat customers (alumni) with a subpar product.

Athletics is a leg of that product


In no way shape or form should Valpo be 34k per year more expensive than Ball State just looking at the facilities, Major selection, and acceptance rate. Won't even touch on student life.

But here we are. Somehow Valparaiso has deemed itself the Notre Dame of the region. When in actuality it was the Butler. Butler has surpassed Valpo academically, basketball wise, and by far facility wise.

And it is still! Still! 1k cheaper than Valpo list price. I say this as an alum who does not owe the University one penny.

Whoever is in charge needs to wake up and adapt to 2023 or they will be left behind.

[vu84v2]

valpofb16 - You need to look at the discounted tuition, not the list price. As mentioned in other discussions, Valpo's discount rate is about 40% on average for students. I am confident that Ball State's, like most state universities (and all non-flagship universities), is only a few percent.

I also do not accept that a school like Ball State offers anything comparable regarding academics. They may have more majors, but the quality of teaching is far better at Valpo (admittedly, my perspective is engineering and business). Butler does have very good academic quality.

As I have mentioned in other posts, I think that Valpo needs to make a far more concerted effort to sell the difference in academic quality - not just at the macro/university level, but primarily by each of the colleges.

[AB]

No need to go back to the Horizon. MVC is a tougher league, but easier said than done sometimes, finding the right coach. We would would have been a top 5 team in MVC under the Peters/Rowdy ERA, evidence that we handily (small sample size) defeated Mo State 4 straight times. 3 of the games were complete blowouts in Valpo's favor, won at Murray. One of those teams under Cuonzo Martin won the CIT Championship that year. Unless the coach is terrible in the PR department and or the basketball style is unwatchable, winning games will solve the attendance issues/enthusiasm.

[David81]

valpofb16 - You need to look at the discounted tuition, not the list price. As mentioned in other discussions, Valpo's discount rate is about 40% on average for students. I am confident that Ball State's, like most state universities (and all non-flagship universities), is only a few percent.

I also do not accept that a school like Ball State offers anything comparable regarding academics. They may have more majors, but the quality of teaching is far better at Valpo (admittedly, my perspective is engineering and business). Butler does have very good academic quality.

As I have mentioned in other posts, I think that Valpo needs to make a far more concerted effort to sell the difference in academic quality - not just at the macro/university level, but primarily by each of the colleges.

Quick sidebar:

To pick up on vu84v2's comment, for some interesting exchanges on this board about VU's future generally, go to the "General VU Discussion" section, especially these threads:

VU Strategic Plan
https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=4314.0

Forever Valpo Fundraising Campaign
https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2627.0

VP of Enrollment out!
https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=4357.0

What do you make of this?
https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3816.0

[beacons23]

valpofb16 - You need to look at the discounted tuition, not the list price. As mentioned in other discussions, Valpo's discount rate is about 40% on average for students. I am confident that Ball State's, like most state universities (and all non-flagship universities), is only a few percent.

I also do not accept that a school like Ball State offers anything comparable regarding academics. They may have more majors, but the quality of teaching is far better at Valpo (admittedly, my perspective is engineering and business). Butler does have very good academic quality.

As I have mentioned in other posts, I think that Valpo needs to make a far more concerted effort to sell the difference in academic quality - not just at the macro/university level, but primarily by each of the colleges.

Is this true that the teaching is better at Valpo?
How is this determined and quantified?
Or is it your subjective opinion

[valpofb16]

Beacons23. I imagine quite a bit is subjective. A degree is what you do with it, I do find it interesting that Ball States acceptance rate is 68% and Valpos is 93% but the teachers are not competitive as Vu84's post alluded to.

I think some of it is rather outdated / proud thinking. Which Valpo is not in a position to keep that thought process. Enrollment is down 50% from 2012.

Not the place or time to get into this. But yes Valparaiso is an outdated, outpriced product in the modern collegiate market. Proof is in the pudding.

[Dr. T]

So, going back to the Horizon would send what message? We aren't *that* serious about our athletics and would prefer being in a lesser-tier midmajor conference and, at best, picking up more conference wins? Is that honestly the best that could be hoped for at this point? If so, I don't see myself signing up for that plan.

[Dr. T]

Great points! Having earned my BA from Valpo and later receiving post-graduate degrees from public institutions after that, here's my experience:


When I talk with people around the state, midwest, and nationally - it's often a matter of formality to ask the "where did you go to school?" question. By far, the (2) things people recognize Valpo for are 1) Men's Basketball ... Bryce Drew ... "the shot" and; 2) The Law School (which is an entirely different conversation for another day).


Here we are, in 2023, with no law school & a shell of a basketball program compared to the past. Side Note: Does anyone else find it odd that we market (via a large banner) that the nursing program is in the top 17%? On the one hand, I assume the goal is to get to the top 15%, which is more recognizable as a goal. And, stating that they are in the top 20% may feel like they're cutting themselves short. Idk ... just bizarre.


As for basketball, Valpo currently sits at #312 in the NET ranking (out of 363). That puts Valpo at what ... the bottom ~15%? How's that sound?

[vu84v2]

My impression of Valpo's teaching is from relationships that I have with current people in the Colleges of Engineering and Business - including the Dean of the College of Engineering. I know that these people are highly committed to close personal relationships with students and that they are engaged in processes to maintain and strengthen the system (not just their own teaching). I compare what is done at Valpo to other colleges and I see it as a major strength - though this does not mean that other schools don't also have great teaching. Admittedly, I have far less exposure to the other colleges.

I also talk with companies that hire Valpo grads (in these fields) and have graduate students in my classes with recent undergraduate degrees from Valpo. A common theme is that Valpo excels at faculty building relationships with students that help them succeed and that Valpo excels at developing communications skills to complement professional disciplines. Thus, I would argue that is what Valpo is known for in the professional world...but again note that other colleges also excel in these areas.

Many of these strengths do not exist at state schools...and that is the root of my generalizing this to Ball State. I believe that prospective students and their parents value these strengths, but that Valpo is falling far short of promoting them.

[valpotx]

OMG, quit bringing up the Horizon League.  They are now rated in the 25-30 range in conference RPI.  Schools associated with the HL are much more likely to fold in the future academic battles to fight for limited student populations, versus schools tied to the MVC or stronger conferences.  Regardless of what some academics think, who don't view college athletics as being necessary at Valpo, that additional exposure is priceless, when seeing a school go through an ESPN, Fox Sports, etc, score ticker, even if your school sucks.  There are probably less than 20 schools in the US, that can attract top students, regardless of whether they have sports or not. 

[usc4valpo]

Going back to the Horizon league is a major cop out. What Valpo needs to do is understand the problem, BE PROACTIVE and take the challenge to be a respected member of the MVC. Basketball is Valpo's flagship sports and needs to treat that appropriately. Lottich is a great person, undeniably - and he looks like he is going with the flow and knows he is gone. If that's the case, Make a statement, bite the remainder of the salary and move on. What are they waiting for? Be transparent that a coaching search is underway.

[NativeCheesehead]

Firing Lottich right now solves nothing, and it would be very disrespectful to the players that came back this season to play for him. They knew the score, and they deserve the chance to finish what they started. Besides, what coach is going to interview for a job in January? Coach K coming back?

That said, barring a huge turnaround, you make the move the day after the regular season is over so you can hit the road at the P5 tourneys for some interviews.

[usc4valpo]

Cheesehead - I disagree. Make the statement, have an interim coach for the rest of the season and start the search. The players understand that changes happen and there is a lot of flux in the sport today.

[crusadermoe]

I have been defending Matt and I hate to fire a truly good guy. It is not a good look and feels like it goes outside our principles.

However, I am gradually shifting. In the new world of the transfer portal and the new jungle of NIL recruiting, maybe there is merit and making the change in mid-season so that a search and interview process can be lined up to hire a new coach in late March and let him hit the ground running.  For the players futures and their motivation, there's not much difference between playing for a lame duck coach and an interim one. And maybe Matt deserves the chance to explore new contacts asap.

[usc4valpo]

I am not ripping Matt as a person. Great people fail in jobs, it happens everywhere. Dragging this on has no benefit.

[valpofb16]

Think I bring a unique experience here as I played for a mid season fired Valpo coach. Even if it was late season.

High school kids are different than college kids. College kids understand what is competent and what is not. Will there be the few that wished the coach wasn't fired, yes. But these are adults that are seeing what we are seeing.

Earlier the better to start the rebuild. Can maybe decide who program Is going to build around next and have them be apart of your hiring/selling process to candidates.

If the next coach or star player is not currently at Valparaiso a complete tear down is necessary. No need to make it a slow knife

[elephtheria47]

Do players play together as a team if they believe their coach will be gone in two months? Or do they play for the best chance of personal success? Would they rally around an interim coach if its someone they like/respect to get them hired permanently? Luckily our conference tournament is early so we could still beat some bushes during other conference tourneys, but people in need of a coach will start way before March. Does any of it matter? Are we discussing rearranging seats on the Titanic?

[usc4valpo]

Also be aware that these players are also receiving full scholarships and maybe other stuff, but also not these players are flip flopping schools frequently. There's meaningful funding and business-like operations happrning in the basketball program.  You need to do what's best for program success.