Is Tonight a "Must-Win" for Freeman/Lady 'Saders?

[Crusader03]

Following a 60-32 rout at the hands of a mediocre Colorado team, the Lady 'Saders have fallen to 0-4 on the season.  Unfortunately, their at-large hopes took a huge hit last night with this loss.  I think the question has to be asked....is tonight a must win for Freeman and the team?  I'm not suggesting that Keith be let go or we shut down the program or anything like that.  But I'm wondering if we have any chance of rebounding and having a great season if we don't win tonight.  Squaring off with a bad Montana State team, we should be able to put a big fat W on the board.  If not, we fall to 0-5 and the schedule doesn't get much easier.  I'm assuming IUN is an exhibition and doesn't count, and Lehigh and IPFW will give us all we can handle.  Pitt, Ball State and Eastern Illinois all will likely be losses.  I can honestly see a scenario where we are 0-10. 

Now, maybe we can get the roster issues figured out and all of the sudden, mid-season, we round into NCAA tourney form.  I think we have to give Keith an opportunity to right the ship with HIS players, but tonight is pivotal.

[KL31NY]

"Mediocre Colorado team?" "Bad Montana State team?" "IUN an exhibition?" Check your facts...

I saw yesterday's game. The "mediocre" Buffaloes are now 4-0 and are currently playing better than last year's team, a WNIT Quarterfinalist. They have great weapons, a nose for the basketball, and they are much deeper than Valpo could be all year due to injuries and the like. I also saw Montana State lose to Wisconsin. I wouldn't go so far as to call the Bobcats "bad," but they live and die by the 3-pointer, and last night they did the latter. If the shots fall, especially early, it could be another tough game for the Crusaders. And as for IUN, of course it's not an exhibition game! Neither team's schedule has it as such. And just because they're an NAIA club that we should throttle doesn't mean it wouldn't count for a big W if we did win.

Now that my ranting is over, to answer your initial question, I personally wouldn't say must "win." What we must do is play with some consistency for a change. Limiting turnovers and long scoring droughts needs to be the focus to try to defeat MSU tonight. If we put up a strong effort and fall short, I can handle another early loss. What I can't handle is another horrible rout like the one against the Buffs yesterday.

[ValpoHoops]

1). Please, for the love of all things holy, stop using 'Saders. It makes me want to see how far I can shove a pen up my nose.

2). Do you know anything about these teams? I've been watching film on IUN for the last few days and I assure you, they are going to present things that Valpo won't see the rest of the year. Sharon Houston is 6'5" and will likely be the best player on the floor - when she wants to be. IUN's guard play is lacking, however, sothe game plan will probably be to pressure the crap out of them and not let them get the ball to Houston.

3). An NCAA Division 1 team is allowed two exhibitions or closed scrimmages. Once you have played a game that counts on your schedule, you can no longer play an exhibition during that season.

4). There's no way tonight's game is a must-win. The test will come when the team is healthy, and to see what they can do then. It's very unfair to players and coaches to judge them when they are not at full strength. Once everyone is healthy, then we can see what this team is capable of.

[IndyValpo]

Thanks, Hoops I agree the Saders thing has to stop.  Sadly reading 03's posts, it is pretty apparent that he is clueless. A fan for sure, but....

If we can't beat IUN no matter who is healthy then Freeman might as well resign immediately after.  They have one very good player, perhaps the best player in NAIA but they are 1-5 so far. 

[bbtds]

Following a 60-32 rout at the hands of a mediocre Colorado team, the Lady 'Saders have fallen to 0-4 on the season.  Unfortunately, their at-large hopes took a huge hit last night with this loss.  I think the question has to be asked....is tonight a must win for Freeman and the team?  I'm not suggesting that Keith be let go or we shut down the program or anything like that.  But I'm wondering if we have any chance of rebounding and having a great season if we don't win tonight.  Squaring off with a bad Montana State team, we should be able to put a big fat W on the board.  If not, we fall to 0-5 and the schedule doesn't get much easier.  I'm assuming IUN is an exhibition and doesn't count, and Lehigh and IPFW will give us all we can handle.  Pitt, Ball State and Eastern Illinois all will likely be losses.  I can honestly see a scenario where we are 0-10. 

Now, maybe we can get the roster issues figured out and all of the sudden, mid-season, we round into NCAA tourney form.  I think we have to give Keith an opportunity to right the ship with HIS players, but tonight is pivotal.

03, have you taken any hallucinogenic drugs?

[ValpoHoops]

Thanks, Hoops I agree the Saders thing has to stop.  Sadly reading 03's posts, it is pretty apparent that he is clueless. A fan for sure, but....

If we can't beat IUN no matter who is healthy then Freeman might as well resign immediately after.  They have one very good player, perhaps the best player in NAIA but they are 1-5 so far. 

Definitely not saying we shouldn't handle them convincingly. I'm just trying to point out to 03 (not that it seems to do much good sometimes) that just because this is an NAIA team doesn't mean we are just going to walk all over them...which you know. Sharon Houston is, hands down, the best player in the NAIA. If she actually worked hard on the court, she could (note that I said could, not would) be the best player in the Horizon League (but, we all know that there's more than just talent and athleticism involved).

Also, you can throw IUN's record out the window...Houston only played in their first game (a loss to Bethel) and their game today (a loss to Purdue Calumet). I don't believe she has even been practicing during the time she was out (not injury-related), so it will take the team time to get her back into the swing.

If the team does what I suggested and doesn't let their offense get her the ball, we should dominate the game...but if they allow her to touch it, she could very easily have 30 and 20...that wouldn't be a big shock to me.

Remember, for all these NAIA/D2/D3 teams we play, this is their biggest game, so they are going to throw everything the have into trying to win. Houston will be the best player on the floor...when she decides that she wants to work hard.

[ValpoHoops]

Now, maybe we can get the roster issues figured out and all of the sudden, mid-season, we round into NCAA tourney form.  I think we have to give Keith an opportunity to right the ship with HIS players, but tonight is pivotal.

Couple more issues here:

1) NCAA team? At-large? There's only one team in our conference that has a prayer of an at-large, and that's Green Bay.

2) You say give KF a chance to win with HIS players...whose players do you think he has right now? He's in what, his 15th year (or something like that)...he's been recruiting HIS players for the last 15 recruiting classes...and last I checked we don't have any 35 year olds on the roster...

I'm not saying its a "must-win" or that the staff should be let go...I'll just go with what I always say: At the end of the year, the administration and coaches will sit down and weigh everything that has occurred through the year - injuries, illness, NCAA issues, success, failure, etc. - and make a determination if the program is headed in the right direction (and at the HL level, there's a LOT more to it than just winning games...trust me). Despite the fact that the last couple seasons haven't been what we could have hoped for, at this point I don't see any reason to even bring that discussion up...especially not four games into the season.

[Crusader03]

"Mediocre Colorado team?" "Bad Montana State team?" "IUN an exhibition?" Check your facts...

I saw yesterday's game. The "mediocre" Buffaloes are now 4-0 and are currently playing better than last year's team, a WNIT Quarterfinalist. They have great weapons, a nose for the basketball, and they are much deeper than Valpo could be all year due to injuries and the like. I also saw Montana State lose to Wisconsin. I wouldn't go so far as to call the Bobcats "bad," but they live and die by the 3-pointer, and last night they did the latter. If the shots fall, especially early, it could be another tough game for the Crusaders. And as for IUN, of course it's not an exhibition game! Neither team's schedule has it as such. And just because they're an NAIA club that we should throttle doesn't mean it wouldn't count for a big W if we did win.

Now that my ranting is over, to answer your initial question, I personally wouldn't say must "win." What we must do is play with some consistency for a change. Limiting turnovers and long scoring droughts needs to be the focus to try to defeat MSU tonight. If we put up a strong effort and fall short, I can handle another early loss. What I can't handle is another horrible rout like the one against the Buffs yesterday.

Maybe "mediocre" was not a good choice of words....but considering that 68 teams make the NCAA tournament, I don't consider an NIT team to be very good.  They are above-average, of course, but not a power.  I hope they are better than I am giving them credit for as it certainly makes our resume better.

In terms of IUN, I thought that games against NAIA's did not count in the RPI?  I could definitely be wrong about that...that's what I was meaning when I posted.

[ValpoHoops]

Games agains non-D1's don't count against your RPI, but they are reflected in your official record if they are not exhibitions. If you had a bubble team, who had lost a game to an NAIA like IUN, they probably get knocked out based on that alone.

[Crusader03]

1). Please, for the love of all things holy, stop using 'Saders. It makes me want to see how far I can shove a pen up my nose.

2). Do you know anything about these teams? I've been watching film on IUN for the last few days and I assure you, they are going to present things that Valpo won't see the rest of the year. Sharon Houston is 6'5" and will likely be the best player on the floor - when she wants to be. IUN's guard play is lacking, however, sothe game plan will probably be to pressure the crap out of them and not let them get the ball to Houston.

3). An NCAA Division 1 team is allowed two exhibitions or closed scrimmages. Once you have played a game that counts on your schedule, you can no longer play an exhibition during that season.

4). There's no way tonight's game is a must-win. The test will come when the team is healthy, and to see what they can do then. It's very unfair to players and coaches to judge them when they are not at full strength. Once everyone is healthy, then we can see what this team is capable of.

1) Personally, I like it....I think it is just a cool NN for the team.  Just one of those "different strokes for different folks" kind of things.  I certainly don't mean for it to be annoying, just something I've used for a long time when talking with friends.

2) C'mon now...don't try and sell me on IUN being tough.  If we don't blow out IUN, we have serious, serious problems.  We should expect our D1 teams to pound NAIA schools.

3) See my earlier post...does it count towards our RPI?

4)  Agree with this...I wasn't sure if this was a critical game to win or not, and the consensus seems to be that it is not.

[Crusader03]

Thanks, Hoops I agree the Saders thing has to stop.  Sadly reading 03's posts, it is pretty apparent that he is clueless. A fan for sure, but....

If we can't beat IUN no matter who is healthy then Freeman might as well resign immediately after.  They have one very good player, perhaps the best player in NAIA but they are 1-5 so far.

I'm just getting into women's basketball...I have followed it loosely for years, but I am trying to give them some extra love this year.  So, yep, I totally agree that I am clueless.

You are right on spot with the IUN business...even a tight win is just unacceptable.

[Crusader03]

Now, maybe we can get the roster issues figured out and all of the sudden, mid-season, we round into NCAA tourney form.  I think we have to give Keith an opportunity to right the ship with HIS players, but tonight is pivotal.

Couple more issues here:

1) NCAA team? At-large? There's only one team in our conference that has a prayer of an at-large, and that's Green Bay.

2) You say give KF a chance to win with HIS players...whose players do you think he has right now? He's in what, his 15th year (or something like that)...he's been recruiting HIS players for the last 15 recruiting classes...and last I checked we don't have any 35 year olds on the roster...

I'm not saying its a "must-win" or that the staff should be let go...I'll just go with what I always say: At the end of the year, the administration and coaches will sit down and weigh everything that has occurred through the year - injuries, illness, NCAA issues, success, failure, etc. - and make a determination if the program is headed in the right direction (and at the HL level, there's a LOT more to it than just winning games...trust me). Despite the fact that the last couple seasons haven't been what we could have hoped for, at this point I don't see any reason to even bring that discussion up...especially not four games into the season.

1) Well, I'm just pointing out that it's not an option anymore...that ship has sailed.  Now, I still think we can be an NCAA tourney team if we get everybody back and we get in a groove.

2)  Sorry, that was poorly worded....I should have said with his complete roster...he is clearly missing key pieces he was counting on.  I want to see what he can do when everyone is playing.

[Crusader03]

Games agains non-D1's don't count against your RPI, but they are reflected in your official record if they are not exhibitions. If you had a bubble team, who had lost a game to an NAIA like IUN, they probably get knocked out based on that alone.

Thanks, this is what I was getting at.  So, it counts towards your record but not your RPI.  Got it.

[ValpoHoops]

2) C'mon now...don't try and sell me on IUN being tough.  If we don't blow out IUN, we have serious, serious problems.  We should expect our D1 teams to pound NAIA schools.

I agree we should win this game, and do so handily. However, one must also understand that NAIA basketball is still scholarship basketball. These players are getting money, in a lot of cases a lot of it, to play basketball. The level of basketball is similar to lower division 2 schools, and in some cases better (and some worse, of course).

And, as I said, IUN happens to have one player that could give us fits...again 30 points and 20 rebounds is something that wouldn't be out of the question. With media timeouts, I would expect her to play 35+ minutes...wait until you see her play...(again, when she wants to work)...she is that good.

[Valpo2010]

I think we're missing the more important point here...if you don't stop calling them the "saders", people are gonna start thinking our mascot is a Jewish Passover meal. 

[vuweathernerd]

I think we're missing the more important point here...if you don't stop calling them the "saders", people are gonna start thinking our mascot is a Jewish Passover meal. 

then we'll get some more people pissed off about our mascot

[Crusader03]

I think we're missing the more important point here...if you don't stop calling them the "saders", people are gonna start thinking our mascot is a Jewish Passover meal.

Which has a worse connotation---a Jewish meal or a medieval warrior who killed in the name of God?     (Neither offends me, fyi)

Guys, this is no different than fans who call the Fightin' Irish the "'the rish" or Hoosiers fans who use "'the 'Siers."  Just a shortened form of the team name...not that big a deal to get so much attention.

[Crusader03]

71-55 loss to Montana State....and the hits just keep on comin' for VU.

[StlVUFan]

Guys, this is no different than fans who call the Fightin' Irish the "'the rish" or Hoosiers fans who use "'the 'Siers."

I have never once heard anyone call Notre Dame "the rish" or IU "the 'siers".  Both them are equally silly.  It might seem a little less silly if spoken, but on a message board, it just looks silly, ranking right up there with all the other made up abbreviations that run rampant today (ep or eppy, scholy, ad nauseum).

Personally, it doesn't bother me a bit if you want to look silly in here.  I think it detracts from people taking you seriously, but if that's what floats your boat, I'm not going to try to stop you.

[valpotx]

We kept it close throughout it looks like, fighting back from being down by double digits twice to take the lead.  Too bad we really only have 7-8 women playing now

[jack]

Another disappointing loss, but you have to take fom these what you can. You hate to keep talking about the injuries and such, but right now, they are playing a key roll in our lack of success. We had 7 players available last night, with Richards being ill. Of the 7 we played, 2 were less then healthy. You look at the minutes these ladies had to play, and you have to take your hat off to them for their willingness to give it everything they had. To be short handed in a place like that where the average athlete struggles with the oxygen levels, speaks to the hearts of the players that competed. Fighting back from large defecits twice, to make it a game was pretty impressive. Even though it's another L, there are some possitives to take away from the trip, and lessons to draw on down the road. Given that, we still have some issues we need to correct if we are going to turn things around. Shooting. The shots have got to start dropping. We had some in and outs, but we had many more that were just flat off the mark, and we're not finishing when we get inside. I feel we need to go up a little more aggresively. We got to the stripe a bit more in the second game, and made them count for the most part, but we have to finish strong when we go to the hole. Turnovers. We can't continue to play sloppy with the ball and hope to improve. There were some ill advised passes, but another issue is not grabbing the rock. We're letting some really good passing go unrewarded by not getting a grip on the ball, or trying to do something with it before we secure it. If we do better at these two things alone, the outcome would have been different last night.
Again, it's easier to be an armchair coach after the fact, but I'm not mentioning anything here that, I'm sure the coaches won't touch on.
I applaude the level of effort and the fight till the end attitude these ladies showed on this trip. I am truly looking forward to seeing what this squad is capable of, when they can get healthy, and play their game.

[Crusader03]

Guys, this is no different than fans who call the Fightin' Irish the "'the rish" or Hoosiers fans who use "'the 'Siers."

I have never once heard anyone call Notre Dame "the rish" or IU "the 'siers".  Both them are equally silly.  It might seem a little less silly if spoken, but on a message board, it just looks silly, ranking right up there with all the other made up abbreviations that run rampant today (ep or eppy, scholy, ad nauseum).

Personally, it doesn't bother me a bit if you want to look silly in here.  I think it detracts from people taking you seriously, but if that's what floats your boat, I'm not going to try to stop you.

I'm not all that concerned about being taken seriously on a message board.

[milanmiracle]

I think we're missing the more important point here...if you don't stop calling them the "saders", people are gonna start thinking our mascot is a Jewish Passover meal. 

I have nothing insightful on this topic, however...

Crusader03 - Please I beg of thee, stop with the "passover meal" reference, as I can't even bring myself to call any Valpo team that...

Thank you and have a nice day.

[letsgovu]

fans of the 'saders = saderists?

[valporun]

Not that many people will comment about this one, but how interested with people  be in going to the ARC, or watching on HLN, for the women's game against IU-Northwest? I hope this game is as much of a run for the Lady Crusaders as the exhibition against Huntington was, but I guess we'll just have to see, based on who is dressed and playing in this game.