Game 3 Marist (0-2) Homecoming

[rogerwilco]

Craptacular.

[Valpo14]

Program is awful
Lost to a bottom feeder
Nothing has changed except school pays more for coaches
What a joke

[valpo64]

What a terrible performance...depressing and disgusting to watch...should have been a "W" for us.   What is going on with the program??? 

[valpofb16]

Last two weeks have seemed like pre-Fox Valpo.

Today....

Mikey really played well minus the overthrows in overtime. Pick was a wash

Tezzo has now dropped two punts resulting in points.

Matthes has now dropped a snap for a field goal and had two kicks blocked for touchdowns.

Without the Marist botched snap for a QB sneak Valpo or a miracle kick blocked Valpo loses in over time.

When the score is 14-3 Valpo needs to put teams away, and this team just cannot run the ball. I don't think coming out in bunch and putting 11 in the box immediately helps your young line.

The defense was on the field the entirety of the 2nd and 4th Quarters. When offense gets the ball back they need a drive.

Hafner personal foul was a boneheaded play. The talent difference between the Marist WRs and Valpo WRs was glaring.

I'm not sure the OL, WR situations are fixable this season unless they go young. Defense was unable to get off the field on the fourth down.

I think the talent is there defensively to compete. I think with a revolving door of coaches on O (this is largely due to aforementioned pay) we get inexperienced rosters and coaches on O.

This years Offensive roster and coaches aren't very talented outside of Appel, Jernegan, Davis and Woody

[Valpo14]

Love how some blame the OC
Who hired him?
Fox
Terrible judgement-
What's Fox career record?
has to be abysmal-

[usc4valpo]

no way should Valpo consider an extension for Fox right now and they don't have to. We don't want to repeat the Lottich situation.

[valpofb16]

I'm more afraid Fox will move on from Valpo than Valpo move on from Fox.

We need to remember state of program before Fox.

[usc4valpo]

is it that much better than under Cecchini? Not sure. I even wonder if Fox would take an extension.  This is a place for a long term coach, it's a stepping stone.

[Valpo14]

Yeah. Twice as many losses to wins is something we don't want to give up.
Big loss if he leaves- which is ridiculous, because who, in their right mind would hire him, unless it was for an assistant position

[valpofb16]

10 years of +500 record as an FCS coordinator, 1 + 500 year as a coach, 2 other 500 conference.

Of the 200+ D1/D1A jobs Valpo is probably a bottom 5. Coordinator positions at many other schools are more attractive than our Head Job.

Look at last 4 hires:

Adams- Incumbent non scholarship 1st time HC
Carlson - NAIA mid level HC
Cecchini - FCS Coordinator 1st time HC
Fox - FCS coordinator 1st time HC

With our scheduling a sub .500 loss is expected, we play 2-3 scholarship schools annually.

We also never can keep opposite side of ball staff due to pay (Carlson/Cecchini-D,Fox-O)

Fox is a really good defensive football coach. Problem is bigger than him.

Very real reality is that we are averaging 1.7 YPC with 14 sacks in 3 games

[usc4valpo]

I don't think Fox is a bad coach. I am saying Valpo isn't much better and there should be no urgency to giving him an extension

[David81]

I chalked up last season's close losses as signs of a promising team on the verge of learning how to win. Lots of good football teams have gone through that stage. But Dawson was a one-year wonder, and the transfer portal claimed its share. It's starting to feel a little Groundhog Day Season-like.

[JD24]

is it that much better than under Cecchini? Not sure. I even wonder if Fox would take an extension.  This is a place for a long term coach, it's a stepping stone.

Yes. It has been better than under Cecchini.

[usc4valpo]

16  - sorry man, I objectively cannot praise a coach having a 3-2 winning season in the short COVID season. These games were really more exhibition or intramural like. Bad indicator.

[JD24]

10 years of +500 record as an FCS coordinator, 1 + 500 year as a coach, 2 other 500 conference. Of the 200+ D1/D1A jobs Valpo is probably a bottom 5. Coordinator positions at many other schools are more attractive than our Head Job. Look at last 4 hires: Adams- Incumbent non scholarship 1st time HC Carlson - NAIA mid level HC Cecchini - FCS Coordinator 1st time HC Fox - FCS coordinator 1st time HC With our scheduling a sub .500 loss is expected, we play 2-3 scholarship schools annually. We also never can keep opposite side of ball staff due to pay (Carlson/Cecchini-D,Fox-O) Fox is a really good defensive football coach. Problem is bigger than him. Very real reality is that we are averaging 1.7 YPC with 14 sacks in 3 games

Washington and Dawson covered a lot of offensive issues.

Now the offense is just offensive.
You're right that the defense can't be on the field the length of time they were today. Recipe for disaster.

[Valpo14]

Hopefully new AD hires better than previous.
Football amongst other programs have been historically bad due to poor coaching hiring practices.
Looking at our supposed top programs -3 of the 4 (not volleyball) have been terrible.Not sure if any other sports have full scholarships
Is mens golf full ride?

[valpofb16]

Who could the AD get to coach Valpo? Another first time Coordinator?

Football is historically bad because of scheduling. Even within non scholarship PFL Valpo is probably the least desirable option when talking Tuition, City, and weather.

Program celebrated a team that went 4-3 in PFL play with the 2003 team yesterday. The 2020 4-2 spring season actually had a better record. Sorry they didn't have Wisconsin Lutheran and Aurora to boost record.

Against PFL teams alone Fox is about .500, that's better than any coach since Horne. Who took about 10 seasons to get there.

PFL Records:
Fox - 13-17 (43%)
Cecchini-13-26 (34%)
Carlson - 3-29 (10%)
Adams -6-28 (18%)
Horne -18-33 (35%)

Main difference is starting in Adams era PFL games went from 4 a season to 8. Meaning that the D3 ham & eggers went away and were replaced with more PFL competition. So 2000&2003 were more like the 2020 spring season with still actually less PFL games.

Careful what you wish for , You can make, and have a valid case, that Fox is the best coach since Valpo transitioned to the PFL.

[usc4valpo]

16 - good analysis, but please bag the COVID season in your analysis as it makes it skewed.

Also, either way, Fox is sub .500 in non scholarship D3 like competition. Wouldn't be reasonable that Valpo can raise their expectations above mediocrity, at least above 500 in a weak conference? Again, Fox is a decent coach, but I can't see where an extension or long term contract should be considered.

[valpofb16]

Usc4valpo. With all due respect you have zero idea what you are talking about.

Butler just handled Wabash who will likely go 10-1 this year. The PFL is a step above high level Division 3 football. It is more similar to high level D2 / NAIA scholarship competition.

Throwing out the covid season makes no sense as well? Team traveled and played full 110 man rosters? With 60 freshman on that team. Only difference is freshman had spring before the fall in a sense. Actually a disservice to Valpo as most upperclassmen moved on

Valpo settling for mediocrity is above Fox. School has decided on macro level to use avl funds for basketball. That is why coordinators are leaving due to low pay, Brown field is still Brown field, and the position coaches make less than 40k.

PFL board stated Valpos football budget is second lowest in the conference. With a bottom feeder budget you can expect a bottom feeder team.

Asking a revolving a door of coaches to succeed in a conference where everyone has more resources and desirable locations seems a bit of a tall task? Not even talking about teams that can offer scholarships. Being competitive at Valpo is a success until Valpo decides to make a change.

[David81]

16 - good analysis, but please bag the COVID season in your analysis as it makes it skewed.

Also, either way, Fox is sub .500 in non scholarship D3 like competition. Wouldn't be reasonable that Valpo can raise their expectations above mediocrity, at least above 500 in a weak conference? Again, Fox is a decent coach, but I can't see where an extension or long term contract should be considered.

I'm going to be a sentimental old sop and say no way do we "bag the COVID season." Everyone was dealing with an unprecedented, challenging situation. COVID protocols for college athletics added an unsettling element. And yet there was this determination to reclaim a sense of normalcy and play some football.

But more importantly in terms of the football program: Valpo played 6 league games, all close (within 1-2 scores), and won 4 of them. We had Washington at RB, but under 50% pass completions (though Nimz started to show why he should've been VU's QB1 all along).

Those games counted. And they showed the ability of Coach Fox to win the close ones.

During the off-season, I tend to look at roster changes more than anything else, but can you imagine trying to deal with that revolving door of assistants in terms of establishing coaching continuity and position coach rapport with the players?

[VULB#62]

16 - good analysis, but please bag the COVID season in your analysis as it makes it skewed.

Also, either way, Fox is sub .500 in non scholarship D3 like competition. Wouldn't be reasonable that Valpo can raise their expectations above mediocrity, at least above 500 in a weak conference? Again, Fox is a decent coach, but I can't see where an extension or long term contract should be considered.

USC, your are wrong about non-scholarship opponents. Valpo, under Fox, has NEVER scheduled a non-scholarship opponent. Every OOC game so far under Fox has been scholarship:  FCS, NCAA DII, NAIA scholarship.

Furthermore, NO VU coach in his first 4 years has won more PFL games.

That aside, if football is to rise to the upper tier of the PFL and perennially be in the pre-season championship conversation, Valpo, as fb16 has stated, has to first eliminate the revolving door and stabilize the coaching staff.  I've personally run into this issue myself in trying to maintain a relationship with one recruiting coordinator after the next and a few recruiting balls have be dropped as a result.

Valpo can do this by paying a competitive salary to not only the HFBC but also: both coordinators and at least four key assistants (two on each side of the ball). That's a core staff of 7 out of the current listed staff of 11 for 110 players (for perspective, Roger has a staff of 6 for only 12 players).  That core is essential for program stability and growth. Lower level staff can be young coaches just in their first year or two or up-and-coming grad assistants, all of whom will move on after a year or two and that is ok.  But the core has to be retained.  Fox, himself, was at Dayton for 11 years before he came to Valpo.

Case in point on how this works: Davidson. They were the PFL bottom feeders of bottom feeders for so long.  They finally bit the bullet and hired not just a new HFB coach, they hired a totally new system of play and the key staff who came with the HFBC who could teach it right out of the blocks.  Result -  they have been a winning program from the start and ever since, and they've gone to three NCAA FCS playoffs.   Granted we are not in Davidson's class in many ways. They have a $1.3 billion endowment, are long-time members of the A-10, and will open a new $54 million football stadium and complex next season.  We can't do that, but we can at least prop up the current HFBC with the staff/tools he needs to take the program to the next PFL level. FB16 is right in his concern over Fox leaving out of frustration.  I wouldn't blame him if he did.

[JD24]

Case in point on how this works: Davidson. They were the PFL bottom feeders of bottom feeders for so long.  They finally bit the bullet and hired not just a new HFB coach, they hired a totally new system of play and the key staff who came with the HFBC who could teach it right out of the blocks.  Result -  they have been a winning program from the start and ever since, and they've gone to two NCAA playoffs.   Granted we are not in Davidson's class in many ways. They have a $1.3 billion endowment, are long-time members of the A-10, and will open a new $54 million football stadium and complex next season.  We can't do that, but we can at least prop up the current HFBC with the staff/tools he needs to take the program to the next PFL level. FB16 is right in his concern over Fox leaving out of frustration.  I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Scott Abell was a pretty successful coach at Washington & Lee and did bring an offense which is tough to defend for a lot of teams because they don't face it all that often. It's forward thinking that I don't think Valpo uses in their hires at least in football. Whatever the thought process, it will take a financial commitment I'm not sure the school is ready to take.

[VULB#62]

24, you and I have chatted about this frequently in the past.   I recall us agreeing on the value of systems like Abell's and the service academies that help under-talented teams compete above their aggregate talent level.  Unfortunately, I too am a bit pessimistic regarding the concerns you bring up.  I mentioned paying coordinators and 4 key assistants, but even a steady talented coaching core of five, rather than seven would help.

[usc4valpo]

62 - Valpo is a member of a non scholarship conference; thus it would makes sense that the majority of the games on schedule are against non-scholarship football programs.

"Butler just handled Wabash who will likely go 10-1 this year. The PFL is a step above high level Division 3 football. It is more similar to high level D2 / NAIA scholarship competition."

16 - respectfully disagree. there are several schools D3 in Iliinois, Iowa and Minnesota that would beat Valpo and other schools in the Pioneer conference. Also, D2 in the MIAA, which includes Northwest Missouri State who is having an off year, is significantly better than the Pioneer conference. How would the Michigan D2 schools like Grand Valley State do against the Pioneer teams?

Like said before, it is sad Valpo has to take a frugal Walmart approach in their football program. But  the objective of the football program at Valpo is clear.

[valpofb16]

USC. Yes the top 5-10% of division two is most likely better than the latter half of the PFL league.

But any given year I'd take San Diego, Drake, Dayton historically.

Taking the top 1% of D3 like MT Union , North Central, Whitewater yes, those teams would be competitive in the PFL.

But on the whole. Those teams dominate their level of competition which is the other 99% of Division 3 which Valpo would dominate.

If you put them in Wabash/Wittenberg conference (which geographically makes sense) they are winning 8-10 every year since at least 2016.

Valpo has gone 1-11 and played mid level division 2 schools tough.

Your example is like saying San Diego belongs in the Big Sky because they have picked off NAU and Cal Poly. Or Dayton belongs in the Northeast because their dominance over Robert Morris.

If you take the top schools, yes those are outliers, but they too dominate against their competition