WBB. - Horizon league opener @ Wright State

[Crusader03]

Just wanted to take a minute and say how much I appreciate the balanced analysis here in the "Lady 'Saders Lounge" (as I like to call it).  It's a breath of fresh air from some of the blowhards and old timers in the MBB threads who are so up and down on the team.  One minute we're ridin' high, the next minute we are not close to being contenders in the HL...it's maddening.  Keep up the thoughtful conversation gents, it's needed!

[jhnmttws75]

Since Paul seems to know everything within the program why haven't we seen any articles on it? You sitting on all this information is BS. Do your job, be a reporter, and report what is going on. It's disgusting how you refuse to post anything in the times referring to all this. You know more than anyone...Keith paying you to keep your mouth shut? Classy.

[sectionee]

Wow, JH making his presence felt. Tell us how you really feel.

[KL31NY]

Since Paul seems to know everything within the program why haven't we seen any articles on it? You sitting on all this information is BS. Do your job, be a reporter, and report what is going on. It's disgusting how you refuse to post anything in the times referring to all this. You know more than anyone...Keith paying you to keep your mouth shut? Classy.

Have you ever been a member of the regular media? I don't know what leeway Paul has in terms of how he gathered his information and how he is allowed to report on it within the space he is provided. I know that the radio broadcasters mention the injuries to a certain extent, but they also have a primary need to cover the game and talk about the people that actually play instead of going ad nauseum about who isn't.

I am not Paul nor do I know exactly what his framework is for his work, therefore I'm going to let him do his job and avoid any further comments on it if possible.

[Girlsbbfan]

There are many factors that make up a team's successes and failures. It is difficult for most of us on this board to have the internal knowledge required to actually understand the issues facing this team. Unfortunately for us, watching how the team plays in a game only tells a portion of the story. What happens in practice every day? I'm of the opinion that 80% of the game is decided in the practices leading up to that game. Who practices? Who does not? How do the team meetings go? How do the meetings with the coaches go? What are the attitudes? How hard are the injured girls rehabbing? How many of the parents are creating issues? Does the team have the support of the administration? Why are there no fans in the stands? There are many things to be considered, but first and foremost would be the level of support given to the girls and the coaches. They need our support.

[Crusader03]

Since Paul seems to know everything within the program why haven't we seen any articles on it? You sitting on all this information is BS. Do your job, be a reporter, and report what is going on. It's disgusting how you refuse to post anything in the times referring to all this. You know more than anyone...Keith paying you to keep your mouth shut? Classy.

As much as I agree that we need MUCH MORE coverage in both papers for the Lady 'Saders, I think it is a bit over-the-top to level a respected poster like PGMADO like this.  Right or wrong, there is a pecking order 'round these parts and you are stepping out of line.  PGMADO may not have a TON of posts, but he is a long timer and is well-liked by the regulars here.  Does he have the clout of say '72, rlh, DMValpo, myself, jack, SaintLouisValparasioUniversityfan, or "THE CHEF?"  No, but that's fine...he doesn't have the time for the board like we do and we all get that.  But as I said, he is a beloved poster and you aren't going to win any friends blasting him.

[Crusader03]

Totally forgot about sectionee!!!!!  He has fast become one of the most respected journalists on the board.  If there is anyone who I most pattern my posting style and way of thinking after, it is ee.  KUTGW EE!!!

[Crusader03]

What happens in practice every day? I'm of the opinion that 80% of the game is decided in the practices leading up to that game. Who practices? Who does not? How do the team meetings go? How do the meetings with the coaches go? What are the attitudes? How hard are the injured girls rehabbing? How many of the parents are creating issues? Does the team have the support of the administration? Why are there no fans in the stands? There are many things to be considered, but first and foremost would be the level of support given to the girls and the coaches. They need our support.

These are fantastic questions.  Maybe Jack can handle these???  Or Valpohoops...he alluded to the fact that he is a student manager or something with the women's team.

[DMvalpo18]

Totally forgot about sectionee!!!!!  He has fast become one of the most respected journalists on the board.  If there is anyone who I most pattern my posting style and way of thinking after, it is ee.  KUTGW EE!!!

are we sure sectionee would agree with that?

[Crusader03]

Totally forgot about sectionee!!!!!  He has fast become one of the most respected journalists on the board.  If there is anyone who I most pattern my posting style and way of thinking after, it is ee.  KUTGW EE!!!

are we sure sectionee would agree with that?

Well, they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...so I bet he doesn't mind!

Seriously, though, for kicks sometime....cover up the user names and avatars and try to guess which posts are mine and which are ee's.  I bet you dollars to donuts you have a tough time with it...our posts are eerily similar I have found. 

[DMvalpo18]

Totally forgot about sectionee!!!!!  He has fast become one of the most respected journalists on the board.  If there is anyone who I most pattern my posting style and way of thinking after, it is ee.  KUTGW EE!!!

are we sure sectionee would agree with that?

Well, they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...so I bet he doesn't mind!

Seriously, though, for kicks sometime....cover up the user names and avatars and try to guess which posts are mine and which are ee's.  I bet you dollars to donuts you have a tough time with it...our posts are eerily similar I have found. 

well if respect is the name of the game i guess there can't be anything wrong with that. but i don't exactly see the other posters agreeing with you on that.

[Crusader03]

Totally forgot about sectionee!!!!!  He has fast become one of the most respected journalists on the board.  If there is anyone who I most pattern my posting style and way of thinking after, it is ee.  KUTGW EE!!!

are we sure sectionee would agree with that?

Well, they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...so I bet he doesn't mind!

Seriously, though, for kicks sometime....cover up the user names and avatars and try to guess which posts are mine and which are ee's.  I bet you dollars to donuts you have a tough time with it...our posts are eerily similar I have found. 

well if respect is the name of the game i guess there can't be anything wrong with that. but i don't exactly see the other posters agreeing with you on that.

This is the beauty of message boards, friend...we can agree to disagree!! Just my 

[sectionee]

I only wish I had your slightly twisted sense of humor. I'm also not a journalist, just a fan who expresses his thoughts with poorly constructed sentences on a rarely visited blog!

[jack]

There are many factors that make up a team's successes and failures. It is difficult for most of us on this board to have the internal knowledge required to actually understand the issues facing this team. Unfortunately for us, watching how the team plays in a game only tells a portion of the story. What happens in practice every day? I'm of the opinion that 80% of the game is decided in the practices leading up to that game. Who practices? Who does not? How do the team meetings go? How do the meetings with the coaches go? What are the attitudes? How hard are the injured girls rehabbing? How many of the parents are creating issues? Does the team have the support of the administration? Why are there no fans in the stands? There are many things to be considered, but first and foremost would be the level of support given to the girls and the coaches. They need our support.

I think for the most part, they get our support. Unfortunately, some of the comments being made here are from fans that are frustraighted by the lack of success they have enjoyed thus far. The seasoned players that are able to play deserve the success, and the younger players that are also competing are doing their best to achieve it as well. One of the most frustraighting elements right now are all of the injuries. There are conditioning exercises out their that cater to the female athlete. I, for one, have been involved in these exercises in the past, and am a true believer in their values specific to women. I'd have to believe that the Valpo trainers are in tune with these, and are customizing their conditioning exercises to this vain. Do I know that for sure? No. I think the question needs to be asked though as we seem to have more then our share of long term, and season ending injuries. It would be interesting to take a cross section of similiar teams and compare injury reports. I follow the ladies game frequently, and don't recall another D1 squad that's been competing for the duration we have with less then 8 healthy bodies. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has an example of one that has.
As for the 80% of a game's success being decided in the practices, I'm not sure I agree with that. Granted, teams play as they practice, but it's up to the coaches to see what's going on in practice, and make the needed adjustments to give their squad the best possible chance of winning when the game whistle blows. Our coaches have been behind the eight ball all season without the opportunity to practice 5 on 5 in prep for a game. That's a severe disadvantage for any team. Frankly I'm suprised with what success we've had to this point.
All of the other "what ifs" you mention are no different then with any other team. This is a special group of young ladies enduring more then their share of adversity, and they will all be better and stronger athletes, and people for having done so. We can only hope they experience their share of success as they work through it all. Go Crusaders!

[Girlsbbfan]

The differences between winning and losing are very small. It is very hard for a team with limited numbers to do all the little things well all the time. Fatigue and the lack of complete practices put this team in a tough position from the get go. The girls on this team can play and the coaches can coach (I know this first hand) beyond that all we need to do is support them. They will work it out eventually.

[jimdandy]

if we did not have the injuries on this team some of you would come up with other excuses as to the reasons why we are not doing well..as has been the case in the past

[Girlsbbfan]

Just for future reference if you eliminate Green Bay from the Horizon league they are no better than the Summit League's women's basketball. Check the Sagarin ratings.

[jack]

Just for future reference if you eliminate Green Bay from the Horizon league they are no better than the Summit League's women's basketball. Check the Sagarin ratings.

That statement could be made with many of the leagues, insert team! I believe if we could have hit the ground running with a full compliment of players, we could have competed with GB for the league tittle. We have as much talent when we're healthy. Unfortunately, we won't know this season, but I believe we'll give them a better game then expected. We're getting hammered now, but learning, and getting tougher for it, with the players we can floor. This is a tough and resilient group of young ladies and I, for one am proud to be a fan!

[jimdandy]

if you think we could be considered a threat to green bay (even with a full roster) then you really are skewed on how much talent this team has(had) and how the team is prepared
we are a middle of the pack horizon league team AT BEST

[jack]

if you think we could be considered a threat to green bay (even with a full roster) then you really are skewed on how much talent this team has(had) and how the team is prepared
we are a middle of the pack horizon league team AT BEST

Oh ye of little faith. If we had a full roster, including Ladd, who we planned on, we would have give GB a run for their money. Not a doubt in my mind. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know. I suspect you felt the same about the 6 players we floored and beat a very good EI squad. Winners can't be picked prior to the contest. As they say 'that's why they play the game."
We just have to keep rooting for the Crusaders and hope they can improve week to week at this point.

[IndyValpo]

Just for future reference if you eliminate Green Bay from the Horizon league they are no better than the Summit League's women's basketball. Check the Sagarin ratings.

So what you are saying is we aren't even a competitive Summit League team.  I agree.... seems to me that our current system has run its course.  The women's game has evolved and we are stuck about 5 years behind.  You are not consistently win scoring in the 50's which is where we will have been for 3 straight years.  The women's game is more uptempo now.  200 D1 schools are averaging 60 or better, you need to be able to score in the 70's. We need someone who coaches to a more uptempo style.  Lets be honest our style is not all that entertaining.  We need to recruit shooters and our plodding style is not a great selling point.

[IndyValpo]

if you think we could be considered a threat to green bay (even with a full roster) then you really are skewed on how much talent this team has(had) and how the team is prepared
we are a middle of the pack horizon league team AT BEST

Oh ye of little faith. If we had a full roster, including Ladd, who we planned on, we would have give GB a run for their money. Not a doubt in my mind. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know. I suspect you felt the same about the 6 players we floored and beat a very good EI squad. Winners can't be picked prior to the contest. As they say 'that's why they play the game."
We just have to keep rooting for the Crusaders and hope they can improve week to week at this point.

Jack, I asume you had hit New Years pretty hard before this post.  You are usually pretty "right on" in your analysis but this one is even a reach for 03. 

[Crusader03]

if you think we could be considered a threat to green bay (even with a full roster) then you really are skewed on how much talent this team has(had) and how the team is prepared
we are a middle of the pack horizon league team AT BEST

Oh ye of little faith. If we had a full roster, including Ladd, who we planned on, we would have give GB a run for their money. Not a doubt in my mind. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know. I suspect you felt the same about the 6 players we floored and beat a very good EI squad. Winners can't be picked prior to the contest. As they say 'that's why they play the game."
We just have to keep rooting for the Crusaders and hope they can improve week to week at this point.

Jack, I asume you had hit New Years pretty hard before this post.  You are usually pretty "right on" in your analysis but this one is even a reach for 03.

Not a reach at all.

The two guys who watch more Lady 'Saders bball than probably the rest of the board combined keep telling you how good this team could be/could have been and you guys just write it off.  That's too bad.

[IndyValpo]

if you think we could be considered a threat to green bay (even with a full roster) then you really are skewed on how much talent this team has(had) and how the team is prepared
we are a middle of the pack horizon league team AT BEST

Oh ye of little faith. If we had a full roster, including Ladd, who we planned on, we would have give GB a run for their money. Not a doubt in my mind. Unfortunately, we'll never truly know. I suspect you felt the same about the 6 players we floored and beat a very good EI squad. Winners can't be picked prior to the contest. As they say 'that's why they play the game."
We just have to keep rooting for the Crusaders and hope they can improve week to week at this point.

Jack, I asume you had hit New Years pretty hard before this post.  You are usually pretty "right on" in your analysis but this one is even a reach for 03.

Not a reach at all.

The two guys who watch more Lady 'Saders bball than probably the rest of the board combined keep telling you how good this team could be/could have been and you guys just write it off.  That's too bad.

Hold on there pilgrim, at noon today on another thread you said the following:

"Well, lock the doors and turn off the lights boys, the party's over.  This collection of Lady 'Saders, for all intents and purposes, is done.  I think Keith may need to think about blowing things up.  There are some assistants/managers/trainers that may need to be shown the door.  Nothing personal, but the lack of recovery from injuries, lack of development etc falls on the staff.  (Keith can either take responsibility and be axed or he can pass the buck as he should and gain more time.)  Next, he might need to decide which players are non-essential and "nudge" them to consider other opportunities.  We need every s'ship free we can get so that Keith can bring in HL-level players (*elbow, elbow* and some of these girls ain't it, pal). "

Get rid of all the assistants, dump the managers and trainers, chase non HL level players.....BLOW IT UP!  Yes that certainly sounds like a team that should be competive with GB.

[vu72]

Just for future reference if you eliminate Green Bay from the Horizon league they are no better than the Summit League's women's basketball. Check the Sagarin ratings.

So what you are saying is we aren't even a competitive Summit League team.  I agree.... seems to me that our current system has run its course.  The women's game has evolved and we are stuck about 5 years behind.  You are not consistently win scoring in the 50's which is where we will have been for 3 straight years.  The women's game is more uptempo now.  200 D1 schools are averaging 60 or better, you need to be able to score in the 70's. We need someone who coaches to a more uptempo style.  Lets be honest our style is not all that entertaining.  We need to recruit shooters and our plodding style is not a great selling point.

[/b]

As a fan who has watched only a little of women's basketball games this season, I remain confused after reading this rather complete analysis of our situation by several different people.  So here's the question:  Indy says our style is not a great selling point.  I think if you look at the combined resumes of our players it would compare very favorably with anyone in the conference. I mean the number of Indiana All Stars etc.  Ladd was the runner-up for Miss Basketball, for an example. It seems players from way down in the Evansville area are a little home sick or otherwise troubled so I can't really blame Keith for her leaving.  Nonetheless, resumes are a starting point and our players have good ones.  Why we can't put it all together is the looming question.  Injuries are clearly an issue this season.  Thus, it is hard to say that the coaches are failing.  As for style, any of our girls could play a different more up-tempo game if asked.  They probably would prefer it given the overall NBA influence on today's athletes.

So hear is another question:  Why is Green Bay Green Bay?  Are they really recruiting Big Ten caliber players or is it something more?  It isn't the weather.  I'm willing to give Keith another year but if it doesn't turnaround then, unfortunately it may be a time for a change.