The NCAA basketball split

[vu72]

The attached article discusses how the NCAA basketball pot is split up by the teams.  Basicly, it is about $220,000 per point (per win up to the finals when you get 5 points). So, Butler earned 9 points last year.  The payout each year is a rolling averag of the previous four years, if I recall correctly.  If the Horizon earned 2 points each of the previous 3 years, then our pool would be 9 plus 6 divided by 4 or 3 points, this year.  So, that would mean about $660,000 split amoung the 10 schools. Not an insignificant amount.

As painful as it may be....GO BUTLER!!   

http://www.projo.com/news/content/NCAA_COLLEGES_MONEY_03-15-10_28HNTUS_v33.3c1cb8a.html

[tommydee]

Where do those funds get appropriated....general fund?   Any earmarked for basketball?   How about a down payment on a practice facility?

[vu72]

Where do those funds get appropriated....general fund?   Any earmarked for basketball?   How about a down payment on a practice facility?

Seeing as we just put a bunch of money into redoing Hilltop into our practice facility, I doubt that would be a priority.  I doubt have any idea how Valpo splits the money but presume it would go into the atletics general fund to, in part, support our non-revenue sports.

[vuweathernerd]

how about improvements to the main arena in the arc? like maybe for a new scoreboard or improved sound system...

[Valpo89]

how about improvements to the main arena in the arc? like maybe for a new scoreboard or improved sound system...

I was at Lafayette Jeff High School for the semistate yesterday. Their sound system is fantastic. Nothing fancy, but with 5,800 in the gym (seriously), you could hear the PA. I was thinking, why can't VU get something like this?

[KL31NY]

With respect to vu72, some of the information in the first post about where we're getting our dough from is incorrect. I did some research and found the NCAA's Basketball Revenue Distribution Plan on ncaa.org to get what is hopefully a clear, straightforward explanation of the money distribution... Each conference gets a unit for every team that qualifies for the NCAA Tournament and every win those teams get except in the Final Four. Each unit is approximately $240,000, and the revenue is distributed after every tournament based on the number of units garnered in the previous six years.

For example, after this year's tournament, the Horizon League, which grabbed 19 units through the 2005-2010 Tournaments, will receive about $4.55 million. Split up equally, VU gets $455,000. Not bad. Right now, Butler has 2 wins in this year's tournament, meaning that the league has 3 units so far this season, matching the amount in 2005. So if Butler loses in the Sweet 16, the conference will again receive close to $4.55 million in 2012 for 19 units earned through the 2006-2011 Tournaments.

Here's a link to the NCAA's website's Finance page: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/About+The+NCAA/Budget+and+Finances/index.html
I got most of my information from "Current Basketball Revenue Distribution Information" and "Current Revenue Distribution Plan." You can double check in case I messed up and wrongly accused vu72. However, I do share his feelings. As tough as it is, I'm too am rooting for Butler!

[ValpoHoops]

We get a little less than 1/10 of the revenue...the HL takes a share as well, so there are actually 11 entities.

[vu72]

With respect to vu72, some of the information in the first post about where we're getting our dough from is incorrect. I did some research and found the NCAA's Basketball Revenue Distribution Plan on ncaa.org to get what is hopefully a clear, straightforward explanation of the money distribution... Each conference gets a unit for every team that qualifies for the NCAA Tournament and every win those teams get except in the Final Four. Each unit is approximately $240,000, and the revenue is distributed after every tournament based on the number of units garnered in the previous six years.

For example, after this year's tournament, the Horizon League, which grabbed 19 units through the 2005-2010 Tournaments, will receive about $4.55 million. Split up equally, VU gets $455,000. Not bad. Right now, Butler has 2 wins in this year's tournament, meaning that the league has 3 units so far this season, matching the amount in 2005. So if Butler loses in the Sweet 16, the conference will again receive close to $4.55 million in 2012 for 19 units earned through the 2006-2011 Tournaments.

Here's a link to the NCAA's website's Finance page: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/About+The+NCAA/Budget+and+Finances/index.html
I got most of my information from "Current Basketball Revenue Distribution Information" and "Current Revenue Distribution Plan." You can double check in case I messed up and wrongly accused vu72. However, I do share his feelings. As tough as it is, I'm too am rooting for Butler!

No disrespect received on my part and thanks for the clarification.  Math was not my major!  I appreciate your thorough analysis particularly as it gives Valpo more than I expected!

[wh]

We get a little less than 1/10 of the revenue...the HL takes a share as well, so there are actually 11 entities.

I believe Butler gets 2 shares for a total of 12.

[bbtds]

We get a little less than 1/10 of the revenue...the HL takes a share as well, so there are actually 11 entities.

I believe Butler gets 2 shares for a total of 12.

That double share of the NCAA Tourney pot is probably the biggest reason Butler took a chartered flight to Youngstown during a winter storm on 2/2/11 while Valpo took the bus to Cleveland and had to leave a day earlier on 2/1/11.

[justducky]

With respect to vu72, some of the information in the first post about where we're getting our dough from is incorrect. I did some research and found the NCAA's Basketball Revenue Distribution Plan on ncaa.org to get what is hopefully a clear, straightforward explanation of the money distribution... Each conference gets a unit for every team that qualifies for the NCAA Tournament and every win those teams get except in the Final Four. Each unit is approximately $240,000, and the revenue is distributed after every tournament based on the number of units garnered in the previous six years.

For example, after this year's tournament, the Horizon League, which grabbed 19 units through the 2005-2010 Tournaments, will receive about $4.55 million. Split up equally, VU gets $455,000. Not bad. Right now, Butler has 2 wins in this year's tournament, meaning that the league has 3 units so far this season, matching the amount in 2005. So if Butler loses in the Sweet 16, the conference will again receive close to $4.55 million in 2012 for 19 units earned through the 2006-2011 Tournaments.

Here's a link to the NCAA's website's Finance page: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/About+The+NCAA/Budget+and+Finances/index.html
I got most of my information from "Current Basketball Revenue Distribution Information" and "Current Revenue Distribution Plan." You can double check in case I messed up and wrongly accused vu72. However, I do share his feelings. As tough as it is, I'm too am rooting for Butler!

So if this is correct then each additional NCAA entrant and non final 4 win equates to adding $21,818 to every Horizon League school athletic budget for the next 6 years. Without dragging out the present value of an annuity tables that would roughly be equivalent to a one time current payment of about $110,000 per school. Not bad.

Why didn't somebody present this information when we were debating the pros and cons of the double bye? Somebody needed to point out to me that fairness had nothing to do with it. Fairness is not the issue, money is. Now I can at least understand the votes that make the double bye possible.

So for the good of the league lets take this one step further. If we ever have a  MacDonalds All-American knocking on our door then somebody needs todo the math and give it to Homer. It would go something like this. If the kid comes to Valpo it will result in maybe 500 additional tickets sold per game for 12 games at an average price of $11 or about $66,000 per year. But if you (Homer) can persuade the kid to attend Butler then the payout could be 2 or 4 or maybe 6 times bigger. Don't you just hate these moral dilemmas?

[valpopal]

A CNBC article today about the revenue sharing between Butler and the rest of the conference for tournament funds:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42273328

[sectionee]

Here is a pretty good article on this year and last year's breakdown and how the Horizon League budgets for the cash influx and approximately how much money each team is getting from Butler's success the past two years.  http://www.uwmpost.com/2011/04/11/ncaa-trickle-down-economics/

[wh]

Here is a pretty good article on this year and last year's breakdown and how the Horizon League budgets for the cash influx and approximately how much money each team is getting from Butler's success the past two years.  http://www.uwmpost.com/2011/04/11/ncaa-trickle-down-economics/

Arguably more important than the immediate financial influx is the publicity the conference receives from having a team among the last two standing in consecutive years.

It is understandably difficult to quantify publicity, but in a great April 5 article from the Green Bay Press Gazette's Rob Demovsky, the Horizon League commissioner was quoted mentioning a study that estimated the monetary gain from publicity for the Bulldogs at $440 million. Having that kind of run two years in a row can mean big things come recruiting time, not only for the Bulldogs but also for teams throughout the conference, including the Panthers.

Here is a pretty good article on this year and last year's breakdown and how the Horizon League budgets for the cash influx and approximately how much money each team is getting from Butler's success the past two years.  http://www.uwmpost.com/2011/04/11/ncaa-trickle-down-economics/

"Arguably more important than the immediate financial influx is the publicity the conference receives from having a team among the last two standing in consecutive years."

"Having that kind of run two years in a row can mean big things come recruiting time, not only for the Bulldogs but also for teams throughout the conference, including the Panthers."

It's amazing how easily some people can be manipulated.  LeCrone's office and the Butler athletic dept. have got to love "useful idiots" like this carrying their water for them about how ole King Butler and the double bye are going to drop pixie dust on their program. 

[milanmiracle]

It's amazing some people think the playing field should be level. You know who gets the double bye in the tournament? Whoever finishes 1st and 2nd in the league during the regular season.. Nowhere does it say it has to be Butler. Couldn't it have been been Valpo and Milwaukee this year? Yep. Conference tournaments generate money for the league, that's why they exist. I am a big fan of the regular season champs going to the tourney but since most leagues can't pass up the money, that's not going to happen. The double bye is a way to protect the regular season champ AND generate money for the conference. To me that's a win/win situation.

In the end, every team in the conference benifits from the Butler run to the national championship game, even if it's just monitarily.

[rlh]

It's amazing some people think the playing field should be level. You know who gets the double bye in the tournament? Whoever finishes 1st and 2nd in the league during the regular season.. Nowhere does it say it has to be Butler. Couldn't it have been been Valpo and Milwaukee this year? Yep. Conference tournaments generate money for the league, that's why they exist. I am a big fan of the regular season champs going to the tourney but since most leagues can't pass up the money, that's not going to happen. The double bye is a way to protect the regular season champ AND generate money for the conference. To me that's a win/win situation.

In the end, every team in the conference benifits from the Butler run to the national championship game, even if it's just monitarily.

Sorry, but no matter how you try to justify it...the double bye sucks...one bye and the home floor is enough for the 1st place team....AND I don't care if it's Valpo, Butler, Milwaukee or whoever....double bye is not called for....period!!!!!

[wh]

It's amazing some people think the playing field should be level. 

This is a commom misstatement in an attempt to discredit the "anti" argument.  The only "level" basketball tournaments I know of are high school tournaments that use a blind draw.  Every D-1 tournament is sloped in favor of the best regular season record.  The HL's slope is on one extreme while the many tournaments that seed without any byes are on the other.  There are others inbetween.   The issue those of us have who oppose the HL's format is that the HL's slope is too extreme in favor of one or two teams over all the rest.  The fact that everyone has the same theoretical chance to earn a double bye is irrelevant.  The same argument about theoretical opportunity could be made about a triple bye system.  The fact is the HL has taken an extreme position far outside the mainstream regarding it's tournament format.  Extreme positions are always going to be called into question - and they should be. 

[sectionee]

I believe that the regular season champ should be the team going to the party.  I understand this will never happen due to the money made during conference tournaments.  I like how the HL and Big East set up their tournaments to favor the teams that performed best in the regular season.  For a conference tournament, in my opinion, the double bye makes sense.  However, I would hate it if the NCAA tournament was ever set up in this manner.

[milanmiracle]

Sorry, but no matter how you try to justify it...the double bye sucks...one bye and the home floor is enough for the 1st place team....AND I don't care if it's Valpo, Butler, Milwaukee or whoever....double bye is not called for....period!!!!!

...double bye is not called for...period!!!!!!

I guess my question is why isn't a double bye called for?

Because it gives the #1 and #2 seed a huge advantage? Good! That's called protecting your best assets. Let's face it, the Horizon League conference tournament is set up to generate money (that's why schools host) AND make sure their two best teams advance to the NCAA's.

The more I think about this conference tournament, the more I like it. Since you have to generate revenue with a conference tournament (that's not going away) AND you'd really like it if your regular season champ went to the dance, this is the best of both worlds. The middling teams get some extra money by hosting a tournament game, and the top two seeds get to battle it out for the auto bid against a fatigued middle of the pack opponent. Fantastic. It all but eliminates the chance that a lower seed can win. That's bad?

Heck, I am so in favor of weighting the top two seeds, I'd be all for giving them a 20 point lead in the semis! (I know that's rediculous, but am making a point)

If you truly want to make it fair, have a blind draw and don't even bother with the conference season.

[rlh]

Milan....we will have to agree to disagree....

[StlVUFan]

Because it gives the #1 and #2 seed a huge advantage? Good! That's called protecting your best assets.

/begin interlude
Why should they *need* protecting??

That's the point.  I think it's fair because in November all 10 teams have an equal chance to get that 1 or 2 seed.

But I also think it's weak, and it's artificial.  It's politically correct, even.  They're the 2 best teams, right?  Let them prove it on a level playing field.
/end interlude

[wh]

I like how the HL and Big East set up their tournaments to favor the teams that performed best in the regular season. 

Following the 2010 season, Big East coaches voted unanimously (16-0) to dump the double bye format and return to a a traditional format.  Big East athletic directors are still debating it.

[FWalum]

...double bye is not called for...period!!!!!!

I guess my question is why isn't a double bye called for?

Because it gives the #1 and #2 seed a huge advantage? Good! That's called protecting your best assets. Let's face it, the Horizon League conference tournament is set up to generate money (that's why schools host) AND make sure their two best teams advance to the NCAA's.

The more I think about this conference tournament, the more I like it. Since you have to generate revenue with a conference tournament (that's not going away) AND you'd really like it if your regular season champ went to the dance, this is the best of both worlds. The middling teams get some extra money by hosting a tournament game, and the top two seeds get to battle it out for the auto bid against a fatigued middle of the pack opponent. Fantastic. It all but eliminates the chance that a lower seed can win. That's bad?

Heck, I am so in favor of weighting the top two seeds, I'd be all for giving them a 20 point lead in the semis! (I know that's rediculous, but am making a point)

If you truly want to make it fair, have a blind draw and don't even bother with the conference season.

As I said in the thread I started some time ago, the tournament format actually worked against the league this year.  We ended up with a team that had the fourth best RPI getting the #1 seed and the double bye.  This didn't protect our best asset and it certainly didn't help the league to get two teams in the NCAA tournament.  IMO the double bye is uncalled for and only protects teams that are weak 1's and 2's.

If you want to project our best assets into the post season then why not just seed the tournament, with the double bye, according to RPI.   

[StlVUFan]

It all but eliminates the chance that a lower seed can win. That's bad?

Yes, absolutely, that's bad.  You know how you eliminate the chance that a lower seed can win?

By beating them.  If you need to further handicap the lower seed (sort of a reverse Robin Hood effect), that's extremely weak.  You're not much of a #1 seed then, are you?  You're playing the weakest team in the conference.  If you can't beat them, then you don't deserve to play in the NCAA tournament.

By the way, I am fully aware that my wishes contradict the conference's need to generate revenue and garner favorable publicity, among other goals and objectives.  Strangely enough, I couldn't care less.  I care about the sport -- about the purity of competition, without artificial constraints.  Nothing but 5-on-5 with both teams playing by the same rules.