T-shirt for Valpo-Butler game

[FWalum]

Butler will be back in the top 25 (or at least playing at that level) next year, so I'm not too worried about Valpo.  I hope you are getting better, because this conference needs a better National reputation if we want to continue to move forward!

I hope and pray that Butler improves to the level you indicate along with all the other Horizon League teams.  A rising tide lifts all boats.  If you are in the top 25 next year then I expect that we will be right there with you.  I know that you have some very good players coming in, but you lose your team leader, the guy who has played by far the most minutes on your team dishing out over 5 assists per game and your leading defensive rebounder.  Nored will not be that easily replaced, even if you bring in a comparable player there will be acclimation time.  Valpo on the other hand returns all scholarship players and adds two bigs.  Capobianco will prosper having the year to work with Roger Powell and Fernandez will have opportunities to contribute as well.  Next years Valpo squad, already a proven commodity, has the talent and coaching required to improve significantly. Two bids from the league would be great for the conference.

[vu72]

Let nildogg get excited.  Can you imagine having two  new guys who shoots 3's as well as Ryan (40.6%) or Wil (41.5%) or Richie (42.9%) !! I know how much fun it is to count on a freshman!  Wow, that will certainly get them to the top 25!    Just behind us. 

[zvillehaze]

Let nildogg get excited.  Can you imagine having two  new guys who shoots 3's as well as Ryan (40.6%) or Wil (41.5%) or Richie (42.9%) !! I know how much fun it is to count on a freshman!  Wow, that will certainly get them to the top 25!    Just behind us. 

I'd love to see Valpo in the top 25 next year.  As FWalum points out, that would be a great thing for the Horizon.

I also think Butler will bounce back next year, but Valpo deserves credit for all they've accomplished this year and are certainly in the driver's seat to earn the NCAA tourney bid.  Adding a talented and hard-working big in Capobianco next year certainly cements them as the pre-season favorite in my book.

[vu72]

Let nildogg get excited.  Can you imagine having two  new guys who shoots 3's as well as Ryan (40.6%) or Wil (41.5%) or Richie (42.9%) !! I know how much fun it is to count on a freshman!  Wow, that will certainly get them to the top 25!    Just behind us. 

I'd love to see Valpo in the top 25 next year.  As FWalum points out, that would be a great thing for the Horizon.

I also think Butler will bounce back next year, but Valpo deserves credit for all they've accomplished this year and are certainly in the driver's seat to earn the NCAA tourney bid.  Adding a talented and hard-working big in Capobianco next year certainly cements them as the pre-season favorite in my book.

Thanks haze for a very fair and thoughtful comment.  We all want the conference to be better but other than Valpo and Butler I'm wondering about the other members and their loses to graduation (CSU, YSU, Milwaukee etc.).  With Bobby coming in we add the depth we currently are missing when Kevin is out.  Vashil is a question mark, and will undoubtedly play like a "freshman" to start the year.  He will add shot blocking which we currently don't have.  Add another year to Vucic's improving game and we will be pretty solid up front and clearly allow Ryan to finally play the 3 where is will be even more effective in my opinion.  Should be a fun year and fun battle with Butler.  I expect plenty of "battle" from the bulldogs yet this season!

[zvillehaze]

Totally agree, vu72.  FWIW, I hope that Valpo comes out of the gates next year playing like they're a top 25 team or a team that can earn at-large consideration.  No one over here cares that Lazerus writes off every season in November by proclaiming non-conference games "meaningless", but it offends the heck out of me.  Until Horizon teams take the non-con season seriously, we'll continue to be a 1 bid league.  Hopefully, Valpo changes that attitude next year.

Just for clarification of an earlier comment, Butler won't be relying of freshmen next season as they return 9 of their top 10 scorers.  They do lose Ron Nored, but his spot is filled by 2nd team All-SEC player Rotnei Clarke who has been practicing with the team this year.  If they do need help from the freshman class, it will likely be from Kellen Dunham, who has a shot at being this year's Mr. Basketball.  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/index  None of this is to downplay what Valpo may be next year, but just explaining why Butler fans are also excited.

[zvillehaze]

Just got this tweet with Dunham's season stats:

Kellen Dunham Season Stats (21 GMs): 30.8 pts (53% FG, 45% 3PT, 93% FT) 5 rbs, 1.8 asts, 1.6 stls. He's 23 pts away from 1800 career pts.

Should be Mr. Basketball, but going up against MSU recruit Gary Harris and IU recruit Yogi Ferrell make it extremely difficult for him.  But all you guys from Northwest Indiana know all about the state politics when it comes to recognition for Mr. Basketball or Indiana All Star team.

[FWalum]

Just for clarification of an earlier comment, Butler won't be relying of freshmen next season

Just for clarification, it was not I that said anything about relying on a freshman to fill Nored's spot, I am well aware of Clarke.  I do know however, that it is rare for a new point to come in and not miss a beat from losing an integral part of the offense.  I suspect that it will take a few games for Clarke to round into form with the rest of the team in game situations as I fully suspect that he will. Remember that this is still a replacement of an integral part and while Clarke should improve your outside shooting versus Nored we will be adding an additional dimension to our compliment of players as well.  For the first time in who knows how long we will be able to have a true 4 and 5 on the floor at the same time.

[zvillehaze]

FWalum ... I wasn't responding to you on the freshmen comment.  Everything you've said is accurate and replacing Nored will be much harder than most Butler fans think.  Also, I haven't said anything negative about Valpo or that I think Butler will be better than Valpo next year.  I've only said that I think Butler will be good.  For reference, it's OK for more than one team in the Horizon to be good.  I thought we agreed on that point. 

[vu72]

Totally agree, vu72.  FWIW, I hope that Valpo comes out of the gates next year playing like they're a top 25 team or a team that can earn at-large consideration.  No one over here cares that Lazerus writes off every season in November by proclaiming non-conference games "meaningless", but it offends the heck out of me.  Until Horizon teams take the non-con season seriously, we'll continue to be a 1 bid league.  Hopefully, Valpo changes that attitude next year.

Just for clarification of an earlier comment, Butler won't be relying of freshmen next season as they return 9 of their top 10 scorers.  They do lose Ron Nored, but his spot is filled by 2nd team All-SEC player Rotnei Clarke who has been practicing with the team this year.  If they do need help from the freshman class, it will likely be from Kellen Dunham, who has a shot at being this year's Mr. Basketball.  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/index  None of this is to downplay what Valpo may be next year, but just explaining why Butler fans are also excited.

My comment was based on many references on the Butler board about Clarke AND  Dunham being the answer to the shooting woes.  You will be very experienced and deep.  I'm sure Dunham will see plenty of court time, particularly if the zones you will face are effective and you need to hit more 3's to break it. Remember, Butler is shooting 28.5% from the 3 versus our 35.3%.  (I'm sure I didn't need to remind you of that!   )

[zvillehaze]

Remember, Butler is shooting 28.5% from the 3 versus our 35.3%.  (I'm sure I didn't need to remind you of that!   )

Thanks for the reminder!   

But despite all of that, had Butler managed to score on its last possession in regulation way back on December 3, Valpo and Butler would be knotted at 11-5.  That sure would make Friday's game a little more exciting, wouldn't it?  Just goes to show how important every game is in this league ... even the first game of a long league schedule.  Congrats again on winning the league. 

[FWalum]

FWalum ... I wasn't responding to you on the freshmen comment.  Everything you've said is accurate and replacing Nored will be much harder than most Butler fans think.  Also, I haven't said anything negative about Valpo or that I think Butler will be better than Valpo next year.  I've only said that I think Butler will be good.  For reference, it's OK for more than one team in the Horizon to be good.  I thought we agreed on that point. 

Absolutely, I am with you. If I made it seem as if I thought you has said something negative it was not my intent.

[crusaderjoe]

Butler will be back in the top 25 (or at least playing at that level) next year, so I'm not too worried about Valpo.  I hope you are getting better, because this conference needs a better National reputation if we want to continue to move forward!

I hope and pray that Butler improves to the level you indicate along with all the other Horizon League teams.  A rising tide lifts all boats.  If you are in the top 25 next year then I expect that we will be right there with you.  I know that you have some very good players coming in, but you lose your team leader, the guy who has played by far the most minutes on your team dishing out over 5 assists per game and your leading defensive rebounder.  Nored will not be that easily replaced, even if you bring in a comparable player there will be acclimation time.  Valpo on the other hand returns all scholarship players and adds two bigs.  Capobianco will prosper having the year to work with Roger Powell and Fernandez will have opportunities to contribute as well.  Next years Valpo squad, already a proven commodity, has the talent and coaching required to improve significantly. Two bids from the league would be great for the conference.

If I may ask, how are you defining "proven commodity"? 

IMO, all we have really done up to this point is show that VU can be consistently competitive in the HL--something that we've already shown in years past.  If Valpo wins tomorrow night and secures the #1, then I would say we've learned not only how to win in the HL, but have also learned how to close, which is something we didn't do last year.  That would point us in the direction of being a proven commodity for next year, IMO.  But I would say right now its "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" this season, because in general VU has been at least competitive in the HL historically.  Maybe this changes tomorrow night, but that is where we are now, aren't we?

[FWalum]

Butler will be back in the top 25 (or at least playing at that level) next year, so I'm not too worried about Valpo.  I hope you are getting better, because this conference needs a better National reputation if we want to continue to move forward!

I hope and pray that Butler improves to the level you indicate along with all the other Horizon League teams.  A rising tide lifts all boats.  If you are in the top 25 next year then I expect that we will be right there with you.  I know that you have some very good players coming in, but you lose your team leader, the guy who has played by far the most minutes on your team dishing out over 5 assists per game and your leading defensive rebounder.  Nored will not be that easily replaced, even if you bring in a comparable player there will be acclimation time.  Valpo on the other hand returns all scholarship players and adds two bigs.  Capobianco will prosper having the year to work with Roger Powell and Fernandez will have opportunities to contribute as well.  Next years Valpo squad, already a proven commodity, has the talent and coaching required to improve significantly. Two bids from the league would be great for the conference.

If I may ask, how are you defining "proven commodity"? 

IMO, all we have really done up to this point is show that VU can be consistently competitive in the HL--something that we've already shown in years past.  If Valpo wins tomorrow night and secures the #1, then I would say we've learned not only how to win in the HL, but have also learned how to close, which is something we didn't do last year.  That would point us in the direction of being a proven commodity for next year, IMO.  But I would say right now its "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" this season, because in general VU has been at least competitive in the HL historically.  Maybe this changes tomorrow night, but that is where we are now, aren't we?

Alright, so maybe I am jumping the gun slightly, but I think that most would agree that given the preseason rankings VU has proven that this group of players and coaches are a top tier Horizon League team. While we have been competitive in the past, this years team appears ready to take the next step to being a double bye team and perhaps regular season conference champs this year and next.  The team should remain completely intact and therefore based upon this years performance will be a proven commodity next year.  Butler, Milwaukee, Cleveland State and Detroit all lose significant players off their rosters.  Will there replacements perform as well or better?  We shouldn't have to ask that question next year, we lose no significant cog in our machine.

[Nildogg]

Nored is no doubt a leader, but if you look at the numbers, BU may be losing the least, and gaining the most. 

Look forward to shocking at least you next year.