The "Butler Hangover"

StlVUFan · January 29, 2012, 04:45:09 PM

Quote from: okinawatyphoon on January 29, 2012, 03:15:30 PM
They continue to blame us for their losses on their board. Unbelievable! I guess we are the reason they lost to Evansville too? Probably.
http://buhoops.yuku.com/topic/8293/I-m-sick-of-Valpo-riding-our-coat-tails-to-wins?page=1#.TyW3JPF5mK0

Old news. Recent entries have not perpetuated the idea. The sincere sounding posts that asserted this are all at least a couple of weeks old.

valpotx · January 30, 2012, 02:27:09 AM

So did Butler have a hangover from practicing against itself when we beat them at their place?

valpo84 · January 30, 2012, 05:18:07 AM

I went back to the old board to find the two below posts that I had done around the time of when we first started discussing the "Butler Effect" or "Butler Hangover. What I would add and I think it was pointed out recently, no team has swept the Indiana teams on the road since Valpo came into the League. This demonstrates that it is the toughest road trip in the League year in and year out, and that it benefits both teams not just Valpo. On the road, it's hard to say who has the advantage. It's possible the lower half teams may think Valpo is their best chance and go all in against Valpo thereby helping Butler. I wouldn't say it is solely one way. Not sure how it can be our fault though for their losses. I didn't know we were shooting bricks for them....

Re: 1/02 7:05 p.m.: Green Bay @ Valpo
« Result #20 on Jan 3, 2010, 11:06am »
Back to basketball, two coments thoughts for consideration: 1. What is the effect of being pared with Butler for Horizon League play. What is the effect on the first or second game of the two game matches. WIth Butler the team to beat for everybody, does the Thursday night game become more winnable for Valpo while the other team is either looking ahead or preparing more for BU? I think we get a bit of an advantage on Thursday. Saturday's game if the other team has "inevitably" lost to Butler, becomes a more must win for them. Other thoughts? The data is probably light based on only two years and the second year we were not very good. For example, GB without Fletcher loses big to BU on Thursday, then in a must-win situation Fletcher plays and they squeak one out on Staurday. Something to analyze the rest of the season.

Re: How will Loyola react
« Result #19 on Jan 23, 2010, 8:46am »
rlh, I think you are asking the more general question I have asked since we joined the Horizon--how does being paired with Butler affect our games and the opponents. The proposition is the team playing Butler on Thursday is pumped to try for the upset, thinking they have Valpo on Saturday. Some teams believe they will get the upset. If the game is emotional and not a blow out, or almost upset, then that team plays Valpo needing a split to salvage the weekend. We get a team on Thursday either knowing they need to beat Valpo or possibly have a losing weekend or looking past us to Butler. Now a loss on Thursday to Butler can affect teams believing they have a shot at a the 1-2 byes. Last week, we saw CSU with a Butler hangover which ended in Waters' rant on the reffing. It may have been just as much about the Butler game and frustration with missing an opportunity as about us. This week, I agree with you Loyola could have the Butler hangover and if we play our game, we can pick up the sweep. UIC's only chance for a win for the weekend was to beat us. Hence, we may have seen one of their better efforts. As said before, if we continue this improvement, the Indiana pair will be the toughest pair to face. Teams overlooking us will get shocked with our effort. We also may begin to help Butler because we wear out their next opponent. YSU may have had that effect. This year's most difficult pair is probably the WSU/Detroit pair. Not well explained, but the Butler effect in our pairings is something to watch going forward.

VUfan · January 30, 2012, 08:38:59 AM

How about the HL does new pairings for next year? Then we can talk about Loyola Hangover. Butler and UIC now there is a Hangover!

RS · February 04, 2012, 01:38:37 PM

Let Me try and figure this out ... Valpo beats Detroit ... Butler loses to Detroit ... so Detroit lost to VU because of A pre-Butler hangover ... or is it that Butler suffered from a Wright State hangover ... will Wright State now suffer from a Butler hangover ... need some better explanations on this theory ... perhaps our illustrious Butler posters can help me out

setshot · February 04, 2012, 01:51:30 PM

Great win for Detroit over Butler. Nat'l TV audience,full house at Hinkle and an occasional mention of Valpo too. If we win tonight we are three up on Butler in the loss column. Way to go. Butler on national TV again next week at CSU. Hopefully another loss for the Bulldogs. GO VALPO!

Valpo89 · February 04, 2012, 02:15:03 PM

Quote from: RS on February 04, 2012, 01:38:37 PM
Let Me try and figure this out ... Valpo beats Detroit ... Butler loses to Detroit ... so Detroit lost to VU because of A pre-Butler hangover ... or is it that Butler suffered from a Wright State hangover ... will Wright State now suffer from a Butler hangover ... need some better explanations on this theory ... perhaps our illustrious Butler posters can help me out

Nope, Detroit beat Butler because the Titans were playing harder than they did while losing at Valpo on Thursday.
The theory goes, if a team loses at Valpo in the first game, they try harder in the second game at Butler because they need to salvage a split on the road trip ... and of course get a win in the hallowed Hinkle Fieldhouse. Or, it's because they were looking past Valpo to the Butler game.
In the reverse order, if a team plays Butler first and wins, then they lose at Valpo because they expended too much energy to beat Butler and couldn't give the same effort two days later. If a team loses first at Butler and then loses again at Valpo, it's because they're down in the dumps after a loss to the Bulldogs and they've lost the will to continue.
None of it has anything to do with the talent, or lack of, on the Valpo team. The world revolves around Butler.

valpopal · February 04, 2012, 02:27:02 PM

Quote from: setshot on February 04, 2012, 01:51:30 PM
Great win for Detroit over Butler. Nat'l TV audience,full house at Hinkle and an occasional mention of Valpo too. If we win tonight we are three up on Butler in the loss column. Way to go. Butler on national TV again next week at CSU. Hopefully another loss for the Bulldogs. GO VALPO!

As the league standings look right now, I would much rather have Butler beat CSU next week!

StlVUFan · February 04, 2012, 03:11:32 PM

Quote from: Valpo89 on February 04, 2012, 02:15:03 PM
Quote from: RS on February 04, 2012, 01:38:37 PM
Let Me try and figure this out ... Valpo beats Detroit ... Butler loses to Detroit ... so Detroit lost to VU because of A pre-Butler hangover ... or is it that Butler suffered from a Wright State hangover ... will Wright State now suffer from a Butler hangover ... need some better explanations on this theory ... perhaps our illustrious Butler posters can help me out
Nope, Detroit beat Butler because the Titans were playing harder than they did while losing at Valpo on Thursday.
The theory goes, if a team loses at Valpo in the first game, they try harder in the second game at Butler because they need to salvage a split on the road trip ... and of course get a win in the hallowed Hinkle Fieldhouse. Or, it's because they were looking past Valpo to the Butler game.
In the reverse order, if a team plays Butler first and wins, then they lose at Valpo because they expended too much energy to beat Butler and couldn't give the same effort two days later. If a team loses first at Butler and then loses again at Valpo, it's because they're down in the dumps after a loss to the Bulldogs and they've lost the will to continue.
None of it has anything to do with the talent, or lack of, on the Valpo team. The world revolves around Butler.

No Khyle Marshall helps, too.

PatVU07 · February 04, 2012, 04:37:44 PM

I have to say I was a little disappointed that Game Day was at Missouri and not Butler the week of the Super Bowl. I think if Detroit was as good as projected and Butler was somewhere near the top of the league this year we would have seen Game Day at a Horizon school. Would have been great publicity for the Horizon League.

setshot · February 04, 2012, 06:38:36 PM

"89 and others,help me. During the telecast the announcers refered to and pictured a Butler redshirt transfer from Arkansas. Seems that Brad Stevens said this kid,from Pendleton,Indiana might be the best shooting guard in the country. Supposedly 6'5" and deadly from 3 pt. range. Another Rick Mount type or just hype from Stevens? Your thoughts,please. Thanks!

IndyValpo · February 04, 2012, 06:50:50 PM

Quote from: setshot on February 04, 2012, 06:38:36 PM
"89 and others,help me. During the telecast the announcers refered to and pictured a Butler redshirt transfer from Arkansas. Seems that Brad Stevens said this kid,from Pendleton,Indiana might be the best shooting guard in the country. Supposedly 6'5" and deadly from 3 pt. range. Another Rick Mount type or just hype from Stevens? Your thoughts,please. Thanks!

2 different people. The Arkansas transfer is a senior who was a pretty good scorer named Rontei Clarke. I think he is 6-1. The Pendleton kid is named Kellen Dunham or Denham or something like that. He is very good, I doubt he is the best shooter in the country but he is a very good shooter. Not sure he is 6-5 but he is the real deal.

vuweathernerd · February 05, 2012, 06:45:34 AM

Quote from: PatVU07 on February 04, 2012, 04:37:44 PM
I have to say I was a little disappointed that Game Day was at Missouri and not Butler the week of the Super Bowl. I think if Detroit was as good as projected and Butler was somewhere near the top of the league this year we would have seen Game Day at a Horizon school. Would have been great publicity for the Horizon League.

sorry, but there was absolutely 0 chance that gameday would have been at hinkle, unless both detroit and butler were undefeated/1 loss teams and very highly ranked. it's espn - they're gonna focus on a matchup of top 10 teams in a big 6 conference over a mid-major game between two teams that have not lived up to their potential.

for full disclosure, i am a mizzou fan, born and raised in stl. and mu-ku with both teams top 10 has only happened twice before last night. and it turned into one hell of a game. but i tempered that sentiment in my above statements.

oklahomamick · February 05, 2012, 12:55:57 PM

Rotni Clark is 6'1" and deadly from 3pt range. He can also create his own shoot. I saw him play high school ball down here in Oklahoma. He's the all time leading scorer in Oklahoma. I dont know if that's saying much as Oklahoma doesn't produce bball players but rather football players. But I'm going out on a limb, rotni will be newcomer of the year and first team horizon next year.

Nildogg · February 09, 2012, 07:57:47 PM

You're welcome. (Your win this weekend over YSU thanks to the BU Hangover- and your win tonight thanks to CSU looking forward to their game against BU)

vu72 · February 09, 2012, 07:58:56 PM

Quote from: Nildogg on February 09, 2012, 07:57:47 PM
You're welcome. (Your win this weekend over YSU thanks to the BU Hangover- and your win tonight thanks to CSU looking forward to their game against BU)

Funny stuff

historyman · February 09, 2012, 08:07:13 PM

I agree with Indy Terry on the Butler board. Nildogg has Nilknowledge and suffers from BUTHED.

BUTler Hangover Effect Delusion

Nildogg · February 09, 2012, 08:10:47 PM

Quote from: vu72 on February 09, 2012, 07:58:56 PM
Quote from: Nildogg on February 09, 2012, 07:57:47 PMYou're welcome. (Your win this weekend over YSU thanks to the BU Hangover- and your win tonight thanks to CSU looking forward to their game against BU)
Funny stuff

StlVUFan · February 09, 2012, 09:12:27 PM

Quote from: historyman on February 09, 2012, 08:07:13 PM
I agree with Indy Terry on the Butler board. Nildogg has Nilknowledge and suffers from BUTHED.

BUTler Hangover Effect Delusion

Methinks nil is pulling your leg

bbtds · February 10, 2012, 12:36:22 AM

See what Youngstown State Coach Slocum thinks about Valpo:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pvChcIvo3ww?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's later in the presser when Slocum looks ahead to the Valpo game

valpotx · February 10, 2012, 03:55:18 AM

Slocum would of course think so. How many times have we beaten him over the years?

bbtds · February 10, 2012, 06:34:21 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 10, 2012, 03:55:18 AM
Slocum would of course think so. How many times have we beaten him over the years?

Yes, but haven't Butler and Cleveland State beaten YSU even more times in recent years since Valpo joined the HL later than YSU? That is not really an answer for why he would think Valpo is the better team this year.

StlVUFan · February 10, 2012, 09:16:14 AM

Quote from: bbtds on February 10, 2012, 06:34:21 AM
Quote from: valpotx on February 10, 2012, 03:55:18 AM
Slocum would of course think so. How many times have we beaten him over the years?

Yes, but haven't Butler and Cleveland State beaten YSU even more times in recent years since Valpo joined the HL later than YSU?

No. YSU has beaten both Butler and CSU in HL play. They have yet to beat Valpo in HL play. Their last victory over the Crusaders came 11 years ago.

valpotx · February 10, 2012, 10:26:18 AM

Going back to the Mid-Con, YSU rarely has luck against us. That was my point

StlVUFan · February 10, 2012, 11:20:48 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 10, 2012, 10:26:18 AM
Going back to the Mid-Con, YSU rarely has luck against us. That was my point

I just noticed I missed the nuance in your statement. My bad. "since Valpo joined the HL later than YSU". I stopped after "since Valpo joined the HL". Sorry about that.