How to Fix "THE MESS," aka Lady 'Saders Hoops

covufan · January 21, 2012, 01:19:46 PM

I don't understand this thread. 03 mentions some ideas that could be considered wacko, but anytime someone mentions Freeman, 03 gets defensive of Freeman. Get rid of the players, take away the program funding, but keep Freeman?

Maybe we need to send 03 one of those devices, kind of like the blow tube connected to the ignition of car for DUI - except 03's would measure whether or not proper medication was taken that day before using a computer connected to the internet.

C'mon man and get real are justified terms around 03.

VULB#62 · January 21, 2012, 05:33:45 PM

http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/Smileys/classic/huh.gif

Hey, I'm a rookie on the forum and have no axes to grind regarding WBB, so maybe I can add a dispassionate observation. Guys, it's almost never the kids. It's how the coaching staff molds, trains and assimilates the kids into a program that fits their talent and skills.

Don't have any lights out scorers? Screw offense -- everyone plays in-your face-defense.
Don't have super talent 1-7 ? Use 8-10 to just create havoc for a few minutes of rest for 1-5.

Bottom line there is always a solution if the coach is willing to look for it.

I don't now anything about the WBB coach, but this thread definitely makes a statement about him. Fact of the matter is the kids can see through the veil easier than the outside observer. If there is dissension (I have no ideas on that), maybe it's justified.

And BTW, I really am pretty miffed at some of the posts that advocate getting rid of the kids. This is not a pro BB draft and millions in salary are not at stake. These kids were recruited to play for Valpo by a coach. There is an implied contract that both parties will do the best they can for the university. But, it isn't working out right now. So the answer is fire the kids? I don't think so.

DMvalpo18 · January 21, 2012, 10:36:38 PM

And just how plausible are these ideas supposed to be? run the players out? build an entire new facility and keep them out? cut funding to the women's team and men's track? I guess there is a reason why this warranted a "c'mon man."

Crusader03 · January 21, 2012, 10:44:08 PM

Quote from: DMvalpo18 on January 21, 2012, 10:36:38 PM
And just how plausible are these ideas supposed to be? run the players out? build an entire new facility and keep them out? cut funding to the women's team and men's track? I guess there is a reason why this warranted a "c'mon man."

DM, you are one of the most respected posters 'round these parts, so when you speak--- I listen. Maybe my thinking is unorthodox here...just seems like we are in a desperate situation, so maybe we need to take desperate measures. How do you think we should get this mess cleaned up?

On this note, is it possible to set up a private forum for some of the top posters? This would be password protected and be a think tank of sorts...I would be able to run an idea like this past some of the top posters and get their feedback. This would come in handy for many of us who are FLOABT (for lack of a better term) "the top tier" of posters. Valpo04, can you work on setting this up? I'm thinking myself, DM, sectionee, VU72 and jack would be in that initial group. Of course, the mods COULD have the password, but that may hold people back from posting ideas. Whatever you think is best though V04...please and thank you in advance!

Crusader03 · January 21, 2012, 10:47:17 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on January 21, 2012, 05:33:45 PM
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/Smileys/classic/huh.gif

Hey, I'm a rookie on the forum and have no axes to grind regarding WBB, so maybe I can add a dispassionate observation. Guys, it's almost never the kids. It's how the coaching staff molds, trains and assimilates the kids into a program that fits their talent and skills.

Don't have any lights out scorers? Screw offense -- everyone plays in-your face-defense.
Don't have super talent 1-7 ? Use 8-10 to just create havoc for a few minutes of rest for 1-5.

Bottom line there is always a solution if the coach is willing to look for it.

I don't now anything about the WBB coach, but this thread definitely makes a statement about him. Fact of the matter is the kids can see through the veil easier than the outside observer. If there is dissension (I have no ideas on that), maybe it's justified.

And BTW, I really am pretty miffed at some of the posts that advocate getting rid of the kids. This is not a pro BB draft and millions in salary are not at stake. These kids were recruited to play for Valpo by a coach. There is an implied contract that both parties will do the best they can for the university. But, it isn't working out right now. So the answer is fire the kids? I don't think so.

Do you play football at VU?

bbtds · January 22, 2012, 06:53:20 AM

You can always voice your opinions, 03, and that is actually a good thing. But a president or AD that listens to the advice of posters on an anonymous fan message board is a fool. Putting out info is good on a message board but making your decisions on message board input is not good.

jimdandy · January 22, 2012, 07:21:39 AM

i think a president or a.d. should look at the message boards to find out what the fan base is saying (after all these are ther people that buy tickets etc..)
with that said i am sure they can look at it and weight it objectively-not to make decisions ,but to rather get a feel for what those that follow the programs are thinking
the administration can wade through what is nonsense and what is legitimate

VULB#62 · January 22, 2012, 07:49:19 AM

03: "Do you play football at VU?"

Yup. Played for Walt Reiner back in the leather helmet no face mask era (not really). 1962-66

DMvalpo18 · January 22, 2012, 12:44:45 PM

Quote from: Crusader03 on January 21, 2012, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on January 21, 2012, 10:36:38 PM
And just how plausible are these ideas supposed to be? run the players out? build an entire new facility and keep them out? cut funding to the women's team and men's track? I guess there is a reason why this warranted a "c'mon man."

DM, you are one of the most respected posters 'round these parts, so when you speak--- I listen. Maybe my thinking is unorthodox here...just seems like we are in a desperate situation, so maybe we need to take desperate measures. How do you think we should get this mess cleaned up?

On this note, is it possible to set up a private forum for some of the top posters? This would be password protected and be a think tank of sorts...I would be able to run an idea like this past some of the top posters and get their feedback. This would come in handy for many of us who are FLOABT (for lack of a better term) "the top tier" of posters. Valpo04, can you work on setting this up? I'm thinking myself, DM, sectionee, VU72 and jack would be in that initial group. Of course, the mods COULD have the password, but that may hold people back from posting ideas. Whatever you think is best though V04...please and thank you in advance!

I'm sorry to say that i really do not know what the right action is to get the women's program on the right track. Other posters have conceded that taking a second look at the coaching staff is going to probably a necessary action. Either way, I have to agree with what has been said regarding the players, and that is that you cannot place all of the blame on them and expect to suffer the consequences of an unsuccessful program. They work hard for program and all of the losing can't be put 100% on them. It should make you question the system they operate under instead of their abilities as players.

jack · January 22, 2012, 02:22:48 PM

At the end of the day, this has just been a tough, freakish season for coaches and players alike. Expecting W's consistently isn't reasonable. It's apparent, it's getting to them all right now. Playing with this short of a bench for this long has exposed, and amplified our weaknesses 10 fold. I wouldn't want Freeman's possition for anything right now. We probably need a 24hr moritorium on posting after these frustating games as the knee jerk comments probably aren't productive, and they certainly must be hurtful to a point for those inside the program.
Having said that, and with some time to reflect, the following is my opinion, for what it's worth:
As for the players, we just can't ask much more from the ones able to compete. In light of the season's developments, an arguement can be made that they just might be over-achieving. I'm not sure how you can stay possitive, upbeat, and ready to perform when faced with such adversity. Last night was apparent that it's taking it's toll. I don't believe we've ever missed so many open buckets right under the basket before. These players can obviously play, and were brought here for a reason. Building a team is much like building a puzzle. Unfortunately, our puzzle has been short many pieces all season. At season's end we need to seriously evaluate the players not competing this year. An honest assesment is critical to the future of this program. It's time to get back to work on the puzzle.
As for the coaching, there needs to be a change. We need new blood, and a knew philosophy. If Freeman remains, he needs to bring in some help that can bring fresh ideas to the program. If the short bench has exposed anything, it's exposed our weakness at the helm. The same old ideas, and the same old plan don't work anymore, and haven't for some time. He also needs to bring someone in that can motivate, and also help sell a new system and ideas. These players are hungry for something they can embrace with confidence. I didn't see an ounce of confidence on that floor last night. I give Freeman credit, it looked like he was trying something a bit different on offense for a while, but then we appeared to slip back into the same ol same ol. Conversely, our opponent threw a bunch of diifferent looks at us with much success.
I'll alway be a Valpo fan, and know things will turn around next season. They have to. I believe in our core group of ladies, and think, with the right help, they can be something special. Losing Varner after this season will be tough. I just don't see her replacement on the roster, so we need to get serious about looking. If you look at the verbals for next year, I see a guard heavy squad next season. We need more help inside right now then we do in the back court. Our other transfer that'll be ready next season will help shore up the back court. Bringing in 3-4 more guards doesn't make sense, and certainly not what our puzzle needs. We lost Ladd, and will lose Varner, and I don't see Calloway, Lang, or even Horton filling the gaps. It's time to get serious, and get moving in the right direction, or step aside and hand the raines over to someone that can help.

IndyValpo · January 23, 2012, 11:27:31 AM

I have hit this topic so many times I am even boring myself. So here is my last comment until seasons end. The idea of keeping Freeman but bringing in new assistants for fresh ideas is about as silly as recommending we drop the entire team. The head coach is the ultimate authority on everything. We are recruiting the wrong players....his fault. Players aren't developing...his fault...we have little imagination or change in plans....his fault. We can't get players ready to play...his fault and finally the record is his as well. You can find lots of excuses for some of these but the bottom line record is not disputeable. In our 4+ seasons in the HL were are winning 37% of all games (38% in the HL). In the last 2+ we are at 27% and 26% with finishes of 7th, 9th and probably 9th or 10th. Prior to this year we are 0-4 in conference tourneys.

I thought the HL was a step up but what I am guessing is a former player suggested the the HL is no different the the Mid-Con outside of GB. This states my case even better as were competitive there.

At seasons end it is time for a new leader of this program.

Crusader03 · January 23, 2012, 06:28:19 PM

Quote from: IndyValpo on January 23, 2012, 11:27:31 AM
I have hit this topic so many times I am even boring myself. So here is my last comment until seasons end. The idea of keeping Freeman but bringing in new assistants for fresh ideas is about as silly as recommending we drop the entire team. The head coach is the ultimate authority on everything. We are recruiting the wrong players....his fault. Players aren't developing...his fault...we have little imagination or change in plans....his fault. We can't get players ready to play...his fault and finally the record is his as well. You can find lots of excuses for some of these but the bottom line record is not disputeable. In our 4+ seasons in the HL were are winning 37% of all games (38% in the HL). In the last 2+ we are at 27% and 26% with finishes of 7th, 9th and probably 9th or 10th. Prior to this year we are 0-4 in conference tourneys.

I thought the HL was a step up but what I am guessing is a former player suggested the the HL is no different the the Mid-Con outside of GB. This states my case even better as were competitive there.

At seasons end it is time for a new leader of this program.

And let me guess...you'd be the perfect guy for the job!

jhnmttws75 · January 24, 2012, 09:56:21 AM

IndyValpo nailed it.

03 I can act like a 5 year old too. Let me guess...you'd be perfect for the job. And with that plan....I'd hire you right on the spot! It is just so smart and well thought out that...I mean you're the missing piece to the success of WBB....WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING?!

Anyways, practices are open you know...you want to get rid of the girls? Stop by and check out a practice and then make your decision about starting with Keith from the ground up. I occasionally walk with my wife on the track and you'll be just as disgusted as I was with his coaching technique.

With that being said, how long have you been watching this team? We have had talent each and every year and Keith finds a way to destroy it. These girls bust it but they are the problem? Have you even played a sport before? Probably not so that explains a lot then...

To respond to your comment about cutting their fund and not giving them gear...my good friend is a professor at VU and he has one of the freshman in his class and she was telling him how they get next to nothing. Meaning all they get are the travel suits and a couple t shirts. So taking their "gear" wouldn't mean anything to them.

Crusader03 · January 24, 2012, 11:11:49 AM

Quote from: jhnmttws75 on January 24, 2012, 09:56:21 AM
IndyValpo nailed it.

03 I can act like a 5 year old too. Let me guess...you'd be perfect for the job. And with that plan....I'd hire you right on the spot! It is just so smart and well thought out that...I mean you're the missing piece to the success of WBB....WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING?!

Anyways, practices are open you know...you want to get rid of the girls? Stop by and check out a practice and then make your decision about starting with Keith from the ground up. I occasionally walk with my wife on the track and you'll be just as disgusted as I was with his coaching technique.

With that being said, how long have you been watching this team? We have had talent each and every year and Keith finds a way to destroy it. These girls bust it but they are the problem? Have you even played a sport before? Probably not so that explains a lot then...

To respond to your comment about cutting their fund and not giving them gear...my good friend is a professor at VU and he has one of the freshman in his class and she was telling him how they get next to nothing. Meaning all they get are the travel suits and a couple t shirts. So taking their "gear" wouldn't mean anything to them.

Obviously, you haven't been around long enough to know exactly what is going on in this thread. But keep the diatribe going!