Halfway home awards

[sectionee]

The coveted SectionEE Mid Conference Play Awards have been handed out.  Let the debates begin.
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/01/mid-conference-play-horizon-league.html

[blackpantheruwm]

I don't want to be picky, but Ryan Allen is our premier defender, not Kaylon Williams.  Williams is a very good defender and should be somewhere on the list of great H-League defenders, but Ryan Allen defends at an NBA level. Ask Darius Johnson-Odom from Marquette, Alex Young from IUPUI, or Julius Mays from WSU.  Mays is the only one of those three who is definitely not headed to the NBA, but he got shut down all the same - 5 of 7 games at least scoring 21, then scored 3 on Ryan Allen.

One of the reasons we lost yesterday to YSU was because it took us too long to put Ryan Allen on Blake Allen.  Ryan spent the first half guarding Kendrick Perry, who scored most of his nine points in the second half when Ryan switched to Blake.  Blake Allen scored 22 in the first half, five in the second - he only attempted one shot in the second half.

Williams' best job on D was probably Jordan Taylor from Wisconsin. Scored 15, but shot 35%.  Allen was busy guarding their sharpshooter Ben Brust.  He ended up shooting 1 of 9 and scored 5 points.  Three days earlier, Brust scored 25 as they beat UNLV.

I'm sorry to respond with a long post, but it annoys me when people see Ryan Allen destroy on defense and then completely ignore him when it's time for recognition.

In Milwaukee, we like to talk about how the team responded after being blown out at Valpo and that's why they won the last nine in conference last year.  The truth is, defense became much more of a priority, and Ryan Allen - whose offense was a liability last year - began playing significant minutes.

You guys have seen Allen's defense yourself twice - last year, he guarded Ryan Broekhoff in the conference tournament.  This year at the ARC, he took fellow wing Matt Kenney.

Please, keep an eye on Ryan Allen's defense the rest of the season.  You won't be disappointed.

For what it's worth, I cannot choose between Ryan Allen and D'Aundray Brown as best defender.  They are both NBA-level defenders.

[bbtds]

One of the reasons we lost yesterday to YSU was because it took us too long to put Ryan Allen on Blake Allen.  Ryan spent the first half guarding Kendrick Perry, who scored most of his nine points in the second half when Ryan switched to Blake.  Blake Allen scored 22 in the first half, five in the second - he only attempted one shot in the second half.

It seems Ryan Allen stuck to Blake Allen as an Allen wrench fits a bolt or screw, so to speak. It works best when using Allen device on Allen device. 

[sectionee]

One of the reasons we lost yesterday to YSU was because it took us too long to put Ryan Allen on Blake Allen.  Ryan spent the first half guarding Kendrick Perry, who scored most of his nine points in the second half when Ryan switched to Blake.  Blake Allen scored 22 in the first half, five in the second - he only attempted one shot in the second half.

Maybe Brent should reconsider his Coach of the year pick, ha!  He did tell me that was the toughest category to pick for obvious reasons.  Hopefully Allen will guard Boggs or Kenney again next weekend.

[blackpantheruwm]

One of the reasons we lost yesterday to YSU was because it took us too long to put Ryan Allen on Blake Allen.  Ryan spent the first half guarding Kendrick Perry, who scored most of his nine points in the second half when Ryan switched to Blake.  Blake Allen scored 22 in the first half, five in the second - he only attempted one shot in the second half.

Maybe Brent should reconsider his Coach of the year pick, ha!  He did tell me that was the toughest category to pick for obvious reasons.  Hopefully Allen will guard Boggs or Kenney again next weekend.

Coach of the Year is always very difficult to pick.  Usually it's won by the coach whose team most exceeds expectations.  Which is why I laughed - hard - when Ray McCallum Sr. was picked as Preseason Coach of the Year.

Jeter's had some decisions that I haven't quite agreed with, but if the free throw shooting were merely adequate instead of awful, we'd have victories over Wisconsin, Butler and YSU, be 16-4 and undefeated in conference right now.  Our coaching staff has done EVERYTHING they can to try and fix the problem, but it's psychological.

Consider these losses:

Wisconsin, 60-54 - 7-17 FT
Butler, 54-50 - 12-19 FT
YSU, 68-66 - 10-21 FT

Hell, even our close victories featured some of the worst free throw shooting:

Valpo, 57-55 - 9-18 FT
Green Bay, 64-63 - 11-19 FT
UIC, 73-71 OT - 19-33 FT
NIU, 59-57 - 13-25 FT

If we had shot 75% free throws in any of those losses, we'd have won or at least been there in the final possessions. In the games we won, we'd have a better lead and wouldn't need the heroics of Kaylon Williams to bail us out.

[sectionee]

As a whole the HL seems pretty poor at the line. It's impressive they even staye in some of those games with those numbers.

[valporun]

Anyone care to give any insights why the FT line hasn't been better to HL teams? I know one of my recruiting details I would focus on is FT shooting, not just PPG, assists, rebounds, or 3-PT%, like some armchair coaches care about. The FT line helps get an idea of clutch shooters that you want having the ball in their hands in the closing seconds. Ask the head coaches of high school teams, they always want their best FT shooters getting the ball in the final two minutes of a close game.

[vu72]

Section EE has D'Aundrey Brown as a potential Player of the Yeay.  Huh??  He isn't in the top 10 in scoring, rebounding, assts, blocks, FG %, FT % or 3 pt %.  He is first is steals, but is only .3 steals per game a head of Kendrick Perry, who is also 5th in scoring and 3rd in assts.

Brown is a nice player but not even first team material in my humble opinion.

[sectionee]

He is listed as an MVP not POTY.  i didn't write that post, but I do think you have to include someone from the top team in the league.  Brown is just as good a pick as anyone else on that squad.  He is the best defender in the league at his position and can score.  I maybe would've went with Kamczyc, but again it wasn't my post.  Anyways, appreciate your comment and thanks for reading! Let's win two this week.

[wh]

There is no way Jeter should be placed ahead of Drew or even Slocum at this point.  Valpo lost 2/3 of it's scoring from last year, a player destined to be pre-season POY, and its head coach.  We were picked to finish below Milw, but finished the 1st half ahead of them.  Last but not least, I could never vote for a coach who refused to do the only right thing and suspend his star player for even one game for multiple violations of the law during the off season.  I have far more respect for Coach McCallum for making the difficult decision to suspend Holman for multiple games and suffer the consequences.  how much easier it would have been to bring him back from the beginning and make up some convenient excuse about believing in remediation over punishment.

[sectionee]

Can't argue with the point on Williams.  This was done before Milwaukee got blown out of the gym against CSU.  Lots of options for all the league awards, it is going to be an exciting second half.

[valporun]

There is no way Jeter should be placed ahead of Drew or even Slocum at this point.

I would probably go for Slocum as COY over Bryce, only because I don't believe in giving a rookie coach the COY. No offense to what Bryce has done, but it's his first year in the spotlight. My opinion may be pre-mature at this time, but I'm going with it only because no one believed that YSU would be in the top tier, or even close to it. I think that's more compelling in the second half than what Bryce has done. Will YSU continue to pile up the wins, or will they screw up somewhere, and wind up in 7th or 8th in the final standings?

[StlVUFan]

He is listed as an MVP not POTY.  i didn't write that post, but I do think you have to include someone from the top team in the league.

In my opinion MVP and POTY are synonymous, and therefore it is superfluous to have both.  And team standings have zero to do with it.  It's an individual award, about measure the value players bring to their teams.  What those teams do with that value is immaterial.

[sectionee]

If the team is terrible what value does the player have? None, in my opinion. It's all a crapshoot, I believ an MVP/POTY should come from a team in the top 4 or so in the league. We should continue this discussion after one of our guys wins it at the end of the year.

[valporun]

I believe an MVP/POTY should come from a team in the top 4 or so in the league

The MVP should come from a team in the top tier that is valuable to his team's being in the regular season conference title race. How the player helps/leads the team to victory is how true value in a player should be measured.

The POTY can be anyone in the conference. That is more of an individual award. It shouldn't matter if he comes from the 1st or the last place team. This award measures the way the player played. It doesn't matter if he was valuable to his team winning a conference title or helping his team get to .500.

If POTY had to come from the best team in the league, then it discredits some players for working hard to do something to help their team win, or even "upside" their draft/professional status. Remember, POTY is a player respected as the BEST PLAYER in the conference for that year.

Consider this, let's say Valpo has an major injury happen in the second half of the conference season to Buggs or Kevin, and we struggle horribly in the spots where they led us, and we finish in 6th place, but Ryan continues to get his double-doubles and leads the team his way. Why should Ryan be penalized for an injury to a teammate, when he continues to put up numbers that qualify him to be POTY? Just because he didn't keep us in the top tier, he should lose all chance to be POTY with the best numbers of anyone in the conference?

[valpotx]

I always find it funny when people say, 'if we would have hit more FTs, we would have won or won by a bigger margin,' or similar statements about shooting.  It is such a hypothetical statement to make.  It is impossible to say that if you would have hit more FTs, what the final score would have been.  With the ups and downs throughout a game, maybe an increased lead would have driven the other teams to change their approach (shooting/making more 3's, going inside more, etc).  Too many variables to say that it is a given that with more made FTs, the score would have been so much more dramatically different.

[sectionee]

After sleeping on it I completely agree with valporun. Thanks for typing all that up!

[historyman]

I have far more respect for Coach McCallum for making the difficult decision to suspend Holman for multiple games and suffer the consequences.  how much easier it would have been to bring him back from the beginning and make up some convenient excuse about believing in remediation over punishment.

I'm not sure you can give much credit to Coach McCallum. I believe it was the woman AD that held out that Holman should be suspended (or "under treatment" longer) and she finally fell to pressure from McCallum (and of course the e-mail writing message board fans  ).

[StlVUFan]

If the team is terrible what value does the player have? None, in my opinion.

The same value he would have if the team was great.  It's an *individual* award.

[StlVUFan]

I believe an MVP/POTY should come from a team in the top 4 or so in the league

The MVP should come from a team in the top tier that is valuable to his team's being in the regular season conference title race. How the player helps/leads the team to victory is how true value in a player should be measured.

The POTY can be anyone in the conference. That is more of an individual award. It shouldn't matter if he comes from the 1st or the last place team. This award measures the way the player played. It doesn't matter if he was valuable to his team winning a conference title or helping his team get to .500.

Sorry, but I reject your definition.  Players from all 10 teams are eligible for the award.  Players generate value by what they do as individuals.  Thus, MVP = POTY

Now, College Basketball may be too much of a team sport for my argument to work like I absolutely believe it works in baseball.  But nobody has made that counter argument yet, so I remain steadfastly unmoved in my opinion.

[StlVUFan]

I believe an MVP/POTY should come from a team in the top 4 or so in the league

Consider this, let's say Valpo has an major injury happen in the second half of the conference season to Buggs or Kevin, and we struggle horribly in the spots where they led us, and we finish in 6th place, but Ryan continues to get his double-doubles and leads the team his way. Why should Ryan be penalized for an injury to a teammate, when he continues to put up numbers that qualify him to be POTY? Just because he didn't keep us in the top tier, he should lose all chance to be POTY with the best numbers of anyone in the conference?

And he should likewise be qualified for MVP by the exact same reasoning.

[valporun]

I believe an MVP/POTY should come from a team in the top 4 or so in the league

Consider this, let's say Valpo has an major injury happen in the second half of the conference season to Buggs or Kevin, and we struggle horribly in the spots where they led us, and we finish in 6th place, but Ryan continues to get his double-doubles and leads the team his way. Why should Ryan be penalized for an injury to a teammate, when he continues to put up numbers that qualify him to be POTY? Just because he didn't keep us in the top tier, he should lose all chance to be POTY with the best numbers of anyone in the conference?

And he should likewise be qualified for MVP by the exact same reasoning.

NO, he would lose the league MVP because Valpo fell out of the top tier. Why reward the MVP to a player that would lead a piss-poor team just because he has POTY numbers? If Ryan continued to do the same thing he did all season, but no one else stepped up to keep Valpo in the top tier, it no longer makes Ryan the MVP because he CAN'T do it all himself. I would give him POTY if he continued this kind of work, as the individual on the team that kept playing hard, but he would not be the league's MVP because the Crusaders would have fallen out of a chance to win the HL regular season title due to his teammates not working with him to keep the team in the race. With the team falling out of the top tier, he would no longer have the same value as a player who worked to help keep his team in top tier. We've seen that we don't have the consistency outside of Ryan and Kevin to keep the team going. It's always a guess to see if Jay, Matt, Will, Ben, or anyone will step up to help in the scoring column, or any of the defensive categories necessary to win games. Right now, my team and league MVP would be Rowdy, but if for some reason we fall out of the top tier, but Rowdy continues to play at his level, then he would only be the team MVP and league POTY, not league MVP because the team failed in helping to keep up their end of the competitiveness to win games when we needed them.

[StlVUFan]

What is being implicitly rejected here -- by me -- is your very definition of MVP.  Maybe it would help if you fully explicated it for me.

I will do the same in the meantime: Most Valuable Player = player who brings more value to his team than any other player brings to their team.  How do we measure value?  I would argue we start with statistics, and we resort to advanced metrics (if such exist -- I don't know if they do or not like they absolutely do in baseball) to accurately measure that value, factoring out team context (which is unfair), venue effects, etc., until we have an accurate measure of that player's value.

That value is then a resource to the team.  What the team *does* with that value is *then* accurately measured in the standings.  To bring standings into the MVP definition is a corruption of the original intent, in my opinion.

[valporun]

The MVP should come from a team in the top tier that is valuable to his team's being in the regular season conference title race. How the player helps/leads the team to victory is how true value in a player should be measured.

I believe I did that here. I couldn't be more solid about it being a player who keeps his team in the top tier in the conference race.

Like I've overstated, if we were to lose someone like Buggs or Kevin, and no one else stepped up to help Rowdy, and we fell to 6th place because of it, we're now OUT of the top tier, and it hurts Ryan's value as the league's Most Valuable Player.

[johnestuff]

An above average player on a mediocre team could really stand out by putting up big numbers and become eligible for MVP. But if you put that same player on a good team, he might have more reasonable numbers. That is why it is important for the MVP to come from a good team (final four?).