Is Butler "head and shoulders" better than Valpo?

[lowposter]

Anyone here recall that x-over move he made his freshman year at the ARC and just froze Urule?

That was when I knew he was the real deal. 

I agree with Milanmiracle...it was probably a good deal for him to mix it up in the summer and play a little tennis.  As I recall he was a pretty decent guard in middle school and early HS, then grew about 8 inches and had skills.  Funny tho, isnt it...how he was 6'9" his soph year at Butler but only measured out at 6'6 1/2" at NBA?

Wish he would have stayed around another year or two.  He was a joy to watch.  How did he do this year in the NBA?

Lowposter

[DMvalpo18]

Anyone here recall that x-over move he made his freshman year at the ARC and just froze Urule?

That was when I knew he was the real deal. 

I agree with Milanmiracle...it was probably a good deal for him to mix it up in the summer and play a little tennis.  As I recall he was a pretty decent guard in middle school and early HS, then grew about 8 inches and had skills.  Funny tho, isnt it...how he was 6'9" his soph year at Butler but only measured out at 6'6 1/2" at NBA?

Wish he would have stayed around another year or two.  He was a joy to watch.  How did he do this year in the NBA?

Lowposter

he has been ok in the nba. he plays a role on the jazz. he gets pretty good minutes most games from what i understand, and has some scoring. single figures mostly but he may get close to 10 or around it. in my opinion he has become a pretty solid rookie and his nba career should turn out to be pretty productive in a few years.

[bbtds]

And some of it's just dumb luck. Gordon Hayward was a tennis player who was concentrating on winning the state title more so than the summer basketball circuit.

Easier to call it luck than to admit a Lutheran kid who became an NBA Lottery pick wasn't recruited by Valpo.  Those of us in the area knew of this kid from junior high and by the time he commited, was also being pursued by Michigan and Purdue.  His focus on winning the state tennis tournament came between his junior and senior years ... after he committed to Butler and decided not to play AAU to focus on tennis.

Acutally I am from the area, and knew he was very good early on, but I am not refering to Valpo when I talk about dumb luck. I am talking about the North Carolina's, Dukes, Purdue's and even Michigan not knowing as much about him since he wasn't a big part of the AAU circuit and wasn't spending all of his time on basketball (a positive in my opinion). Dumb luck is getting a guy from your town who flew under the radar enough to go to the local school yet ended up in the NBA draft just two years later.

I remember seeing Gordon Hayward playing for Brownsburg on channel 23 on MyIndy TV's high school sports show but he really hit the radar when he made a last second shot for the win against Zeller and the Washington Hatchets in the 3A Indiana state championship game in 2008.

Umm...where to begin here...

Brownsburg played Marion for the 4A state title, where Hayward did hit the game winning shot.
Washington actually won the 3A title that year.

Sorry, bad memory recall. Was it Zeller that also hit a game winning shot in the 3A championship game that same year? I seem to remember him being involved. The Zeller that went to Notre Dame I believe.

[dcvalpo]

Guys, just think....it really could be us playing in the national title game.  That is roughly the level we are at, given our victory over Butler this season.

A few bounces go our way and it's US not BUTLER playing for the title.

[sectionee]

ha!

But seriously, congrats Butler, and thank you for earning us a few more dollars by advancing!

[milanmiracle]

And some of it's just dumb luck. Gordon Hayward was a tennis player who was concentrating on winning the state title more so than the summer basketball circuit.

Easier to call it luck than to admit a Lutheran kid who became an NBA Lottery pick wasn't recruited by Valpo.  Those of us in the area knew of this kid from junior high and by the time he commited, was also being pursued by Michigan and Purdue.  His focus on winning the state tennis tournament came between his junior and senior years ... after he committed to Butler and decided not to play AAU to focus on tennis.

Acutally I am from the area, and knew he was very good early on, but I am not refering to Valpo when I talk about dumb luck. I am talking about the North Carolina's, Dukes, Purdue's and even Michigan not knowing as much about him since he wasn't a big part of the AAU circuit and wasn't spending all of his time on basketball (a positive in my opinion). Dumb luck is getting a guy from your town who flew under the radar enough to go to the local school yet ended up in the NBA draft just two years later.

I remember seeing Gordon Hayward playing for Brownsburg on channel 23 on MyIndy TV's high school sports show but he really hit the radar when he made a last second shot for the win against Zeller and the Washington Hatchets in the 3A Indiana state championship game in 2008.

Umm...where to begin here...

Brownsburg played Marion for the 4A state title, where Hayward did hit the game winning shot.
Washington actually won the 3A title that year.

Sorry, bad memory recall. Was it Zeller that also hit a game winning shot in the 3A championship game that same year? I seem to remember him being involved. The Zeller that went to Notre Dame I believe.

Luke Zeller (Notre Dame) did hit a game winning shot for Washington, but it wasn't the same year as Heywards. In fact, Luke won the Mr. Basketball that year, basically because of that shot. That was all the way back in 2005. Mr Basketball  should have gone to Josh McRoberts (I think)

[lowposter]

My choice for that year was the guard from Richmond that played at Marquette and beat VU with a three pointer....I forget his name, but he was tough.

lowposter

[DMvalpo18]

My choice for that year was the guard from Richmond that played at Marquette and beat VU with a three pointer....I forget his name, but he was tough.

lowposter

dominic james. that video is on youtube. painful to watch!

[vuweathernerd]

My choice for that year was the guard from Richmond that played at Marquette and beat VU with a three pointer....I forget his name, but he was tough.

lowposter

dominic james. that video is on youtube. painful to watch!

still in the top 3 of the most exciting games i've been to. and that was my freshman year.

[StlVUFan]

My choice for that year was the guard from Richmond that played at Marquette and beat VU with a three pointer....I forget his name, but he was tough.

lowposter

dominic james. that video is on youtube. painful to watch!

still in the top 3 of the most exciting games i've been to. and that was my freshman year.

I still recall sitting a few rows behind a trio of Marquette fans, one of whom was reporting back to their man fan message board at every time out, at one point "complaining" about having to play a team that practices in the same gym it plays its games in.  Jarryd Lloyd on the left wing for 3 to tie the score before James broke our hearts.  I found the overheard comment hysterical.

I also remember a couple of days later running into a number of Butler fans at the Bracketbuster return game who said they were rooting for us to beat Marquette.

[DMvalpo18]

My choice for that year was the guard from Richmond that played at Marquette and beat VU with a three pointer....I forget his name, but he was tough.

lowposter

dominic james. that video is on youtube. painful to watch!

still in the top 3 of the most exciting games i've been to. and that was my freshman year.

I still recall sitting a few rows behind a trio of Marquette fans, one of whom was reporting back to their man fan message board at every time out, at one point "complaining" about having to play a team that practices in the same gym it plays its games in.  Jarryd Lloyd on the left wing for 3 to tie the score before James broke our hearts.  I found the overheard comment hysterical.

I also remember a couple of days later running into a number of Butler fans at the Bracketbuster return game who said they were rooting for us to beat Marquette.

i wish we could have beaten them! that would have shut up their fans.

[vuweathernerd]

according to wilbon and kornheiser on pti today, nobody can name another school in the horizon league besides butler. does that make them "head and shoulders better?"

[rlh]

Wilbon named all of them last week, but then he lived in Chicago.  Not sure why he couldn't today

[wh]

according to wilbon and kornheiser on pti today, nobody can name another school in the horizon league besides butler. does that make them "head and shoulders better?"

I don't know about that, but it does provide more evidence that those who think other HL teams are receiving recruiting crumbs off the Butler table are kidding themselves.  Around the country, this is not a Horizon League story - it's a Butler story, plain and simple.  Nobody cares about the Horizon League, any more than it cared about Conference USA when Memphis was in its height of glory under Calapari.  As far as the national sports media is concerned, Butler is Michael Jackson.  The Horizon League is Gary, Indiana. 

[vuweathernerd]

Wilbon named all of them last week, but then he lived in Chicago.  Not sure why he couldn't today

i think the statement was more to make a point, than anything else. the problem is that it makes the rest of the country seem to think the rest of the conference is worthless, when we're anything but.

[rlh]

I agree.  The story to the nation is Butler, not the Horizon League.  Interesting, because when Northern Iowa made their run, they kept talking about the Missouri Valley League and how good it was.  Until we start getting more than one team in the tournament, we will always be Butler and the other guys in the national media

[dcvalpo]

Proven tonight that they are not better than us.

[valpofan56]

Proven tonight that they are not better than us.

Tonight they weren't.

[StlVUFan]

This is sarcasm, no?

[KL31NY]

Proven tonight that they are not better than us.

I do like to be optimistic, but in no reality would I imagine this year's Valpo squad in the national title game. Butler... easily plausible, and given their close victories I think they earned it. That, and I don't understand how losing to UCONN means that we are better than Butler.

[StlVUFan]

Proven tonight that they are not better than us.

I do like to be optimistic, but in no reality would I imagine this year's Valpo squad in the national title game. Butler... easily plausible, and given their close victories I think they earned it. That, and I don't understand how losing to UCONN means that we are better than Butler.

Well, they said that Butler is not better than Valpo, not Valpo is better than Butler.

But other than that, I'm right there with ya.

[vu72]

The good news for the conference is of course that once again Butler made us a lot of money.  Maybe enough to get a guaranteed game at the ARC, who knows.

Clearly, as the NCAA tourney always shows, playing on a neutral court with neutral fans generally favors the mid-major or at least levels the playing field to some extent.  Valpo just hasn't had many chances to play a major on a neutral court and when we have had a chance--like at the United Center--it ends up being against the No. 1 team in the country.  We need to schedule "mid-majors" and I don't mean Missouri State.  I mean md-level major conference teams.  Then we will have a chance and progress from there.

As for last night, Butler should indeed be proud.  Another great and memorable run.  They should take heart from the fact that they are in good company when it comes to teams losing two championship games in a row.  So if my memory is still functioning I believe that Ohio State had the same fate.

Jerry Lucus, John Havlichek, Bob Knight, Ron Noel et al won the Championship in 1960, but then lost in 1961 and 1962 to Cincinnati, who was led by Ron Bonham, who just happened to be a former Mr. Basketball from Indiana!!  Someone can check my facts, but that is my recollection.  Anyway, my hats off to the Bulldogs, an amazing  run.

[dcvalpo]

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

BUT, now that Butler's run is over and Howard is graduating, let's take Butler down.  Just because I think right now they are head and shoulders better doesn't mean that we can't close that gap next year.

[valpo84]

Interesting article if people didn't see it on the CAA's success (and comparisons to Horizon) and its depth. One of the key points to the CAA's multiple bids was wins out of conference. Query whether their scheduling will improve because of these successes or be hampered because teams from ACC and other conferences won't want to schedule them anymore. Preseason tourneys will continue to be the best opportunities to get these kinds of games or to try to get guaranteed games on the road against middle of the pack BCS teams. Valpo might want to look for a westward trip (UCLAs, USCs, California/Stanford) in order to try to get some of those games. Even a Gonzaga/Washington/Wash State/Utah/Utah State trip could be beneficial. Avoid BYU because that place is a no man's land for road teams. Or even a New Mexico/NMSt trip could be helpful. Isn't there a certain former IU guy down there somewhere?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6276480/caa-improve-depth-take-step

[mj]

Valpo might want to look for a westward trip (UCLAs, USCs, California/Stanford) in order to try to get some of those games. Even a Gonzaga/Washington/Wash State/Utah/Utah State trip could be beneficial. Avoid BYU because that place is a no man's land for road teams. Or even a New Mexico/NMSt trip could be helpful. Isn't there a certain former IU guy down there somewhere?

I've been hoping for a westward trip for awhile now. There's a number of teams in Southern California alone that might make a good matchup. Hopefully we could get one game with a team like UCLA or USC and one with a good midmajor like Long Beach State. Valpo could have some sort of a "homecoming west" type gathering and give westcoast alumni an opportunity to watch Valpo basketball in person. Plus, maybe it could be a way to bring westcoast talent to Valpo. I'd rather see that kind of roadtrip, than bringing Ball State and IPFW into the ARC again.