Valpo vs. Milwaukee (1/28) Game Thread

[govalpogo]

Read their board, very classy and even handed comments.  One of the comments toned negatively about Valpo (Edwards specifically) came from one of our own interestingly enough...

[vu72]

Rather than slam the guys on this board who are critical of Edwards, maybe we should all consider what Edwards did.  His technicals could have cost us this game and wasted a terrific effort by his teammates.  Not only that, he can't play in the next game against Detroit.  How is that helping his teammates, who find themselves in the middle of a race for the conference championship?

Doesn't matter that we weren't getting the calls from the refs, or that he was goaded or taunted by the opposing team into losing his temper.  He showed very poor judgment and an immature attitude.  He is responsible, not guys on the board who call him out for conduct that hurts the team and, by the way, the university.  Paul

There is a BIG difference between calling for a kid to be kicked off the team, calling him a "piece of crap", a "giant head case", saying he acted "like a complete ass", saying he was "running his damn mouth" or that "the kid is a thug", and, as you suggest, saying he "showed very poor judgement and an immature attitude".

Perhaps if was the messenger or the immature  delivery.  I agree that Richie needs to control thr aggression but also agree with wh when he says we need the tough attitude which perhaps we lacked last year.

[VUfan]

Good tough win, Riche he's young, he can  grow up, 56, well I have my doubt's about that.

[koala]

I have heard that the second tech on Ritchie was crap, also the tech on Matt was crap.   What's wrong with showing a bit of enthusiasm and emotion at hitting a 3?   I remember a couple of years back at an away game I was at, Brandon got a tech after hitting a 3 and all he was doing was showing the same enthusiasm and emotion.   The refs are a bit precious and need to grow a pair.   How sad for one of our own fans to get on the Milwaukee board and bag Ritchie, don't see any fans from any of the other teams getting on our board and bagging one of their own 

[valpofan56]

Rather than slam the guys on this board who are critical of Edwards, maybe we should all consider what Edwards did.  His technicals could have cost us this game and wasted a terrific effort by his teammates.  Not only that, he can't play in the next game against Detroit.  How is that helping his teammates, who find themselves in the middle of a race for the conference championship?

Doesn't matter that we weren't getting the calls from the refs, or that he was goaded or taunted by the opposing team into losing his temper.  He showed very poor judgment and an immature attitude.  He is responsible, not guys on the board who call him out for conduct that hurts the team and, by the way, the university.  Paul

Perhaps if was the messenger or the immature  delivery.  I agree that Richie needs to control thr aggression but also agree with wh when he says we need the tough attitude which perhaps we lacked last year.

'72 are you ESL?

[sectionee]

according to Matt's twitter account he made the ref give him a T

[Smj]

 

WAY TO GO!!!     Sure enjoyed the game. 

[StlVUFan]

Another reason to disapprove of Ritchie's 2nd T -- if taunting is indeed what he did:  The Crossroads Debacle earlier this year, the one that led to at least half a dozen suspensions?

Started with a little taunting.  Incompetent refs helped, of course.

Interestingly enough, the team that got hit the hardest by suspensions came back strong.  The team that got off lightly fell off the map for a while and has lots of company at the top of the A-10.  And that was the team that thought they had to react verbally to a little trash talk.  Hardly seems worth it now.

I'd rather see intensity show up in their play and leave the trash talk to the fans.

[blackpantheruwm]

I thought that Richie was goaded into some of the stuff that got him ejected. Another case of Jeter telling his guys to pick on the most volatile player, so they went for the freshman, and happened to get Richie riled up. We lose him for the Detroit game because of the ejection.

I can tell you right now that he was not "goaded" into anything.

When he originally started talking the trash - the double technical on he and Williams - he was repeatedly saying to Kaylon "You know where the f*** I'm from?" and when Kaylon was laughing because of such a weird intimidation.  Edwards didn't get the response he was looking for, so he said something a little worse, and that got the rise out of Williams.  It's so stupid how guys need to compare their johnsons sometimes, and those two acted like knuckleheads.  Deserving T's on both sides.

The second one was completely unprovoked.  He hit the three - a big play - and then immediately turned to our bench, who had said nothing (can't do much taunting after a big 3 just hit you), and continued saying some real verbal garbage.

Matt Kenney was the other player that I just couldn't get.  He was rude, talking trash as much as Eli Holman does, and wasn't getting any response - Jeter had told the team to not engage in any of it because of the T on Williams.

Other than that, I was very pleased with everyone from Valpo.  You guys run a class program, your coaching staff is personable and gracious, and the players that I spoke with shortly - namely Broekhoff, Buggs and Van Wijk - seemed like really nice guys.

Valpo just seems like the kind of atmosphere that puts out a lot of very good people and a couple douchebags.  Every time we come down there for games, everyone is so nice and gracious, then you get the one fan who throws stuff at you or says some really pointed racist comment that spoils the fun.

Don't know why that is.  Usually it's the other way around - you get a school like Detroit, which has a couple really nice guys like Reggie and Ben Lee, and a whole bunch of turds.

[blackpantheruwm]

I have heard that the second tech on Ritchie was crap, also the tech on Matt was crap.   What's wrong with showing a bit of enthusiasm and emotion at hitting a 3?   I remember a couple of years back at an away game I was at, Brandon got a tech after hitting a 3 and all he was doing was showing the same enthusiasm and emotion.   The refs are a bit precious and need to grow a pair.   How sad for one of our own fans to get on the Milwaukee board and bag Ritchie, don't see any fans from any of the other teams getting on our board and bagging one of their own 

If you can get a chance, watch the game again.  I watched it a second time at home with our home audio, and Richie's words are clear in Bill Johnson's microphone (he sits in the first seat next to the bench).  It was definitely worth the price of a T.

I didn't hear what exactly Kenney said myself, only second hand, but he apparently didn't like a call or a non-call, told the ref as much, the ref disagreed with him, and Kenney said something that the ref took issue with.  The players I talked to (our guys) had differing views - one said that Kenney practically asked for a technical, the other said he shouldn't have gotten it but they weren't taking any more guff once Edwards was bounced.

Aside from that, someone asked why Kaylon Williams walks with a limp.  He has a nagging ankle injury that has been bothering him since the Wisconsin game on December 12th.

[valpopal]

I have had a chance now to see my recording of the game. The first technical on Edwards was part of a double technical involving Milwaukee's Williams in the middle of a multi-player scrum. The second technical appeared to be an overreaction by the official. I replayed the incident a couple times, and though I don't know what he said and would be willing to consider his words, the physical action of Edwards didn't seem to do much to cause a technical.

One could defend the call due to the memo that went out to officials insisting they call more technical fouls, as well as for the fact that this game was extremely physical. Still, in almost any other circumstance in the past that second technical would not have been called. However, I can't see any defense for the overreactions by posters here that even included a call for Edwards to be kicked off the team.

Clearly, players were pounding one another on just about every possession. On a number of instances I saw Ryan and Matt get smacked in the head or the face on drives without any foul being called, and there was blood as evidence. Nevertheless, I was pleased to see Valpo didn't back down, and the physical play was also used by the Crusaders, especially Kevin. Maybe it is the players or maybe it is Bryce's style of coaching, but this year's team seems a bit more willing to mix it up on the court if needed.

As for Ryan: he made a number of amazing moves and circus shots, even while being mugged each time he went to the basket. His terrific performance again gave further support to him as leading candidate for the conference Player of the Year.

[vu72]

I have had a chance now to see my recording of the game. The first technical on Edwards was part of a double technical involving Milwaukee's Williams in the middle of a multi-player scrum. The second technical appeared to be an overreaction by the official. I replayed the incident a couple times, and though I don't know what he said and would be willing to consider his words, the physical action of Edwards didn't seem to do much to cause a technical.

One could defend the call due to the memo that went out to officials insisting they call more technical fouls, as well as for the fact that this game was extremely physical. Still, in almost any other circumstance in the past that second technical would not have been called. However, I can't see any defense for the overreactions by posters here that even included a call for Edwards to be kicked off the team.

Clearly, players were pounding one another on just about every possession. On a number of instances I saw Ryan and Matt get smacked in the head or the face on drives without any foul being called, and there was blood as evidence. Nevertheless, I was pleased to see Valpo didn't back down, and the physical play was also used by the Crusaders, especially Kevin. Maybe it is the players or maybe it is Bryce's style of coaching, but this year's team seems a bit more willing to mix it up on the court if needed.

As for Ryan: he made a number of amazing moves and circus shots, even while being mugged each time he went to the basket. His terrific performance again gave further support to him as leading candidate for the conference Player of the Year.

[Smj]

I am trying to stay positive because I am proud of my team....  (players, coaches, fans)  I wanted to leave it at that..

However, some of the garbage being posted on this thread is annoying(about Edwards).   It is not very supportive of a "team".

1. I was at the game - if you were not their you should think about what you "know" before you post.
2. I also watched the replay on ESPN (ipad app) - many things stated in this thread are INCORRECT.
3. any college team is a group of young kids learning - a game, teamwork and about themselves (this is a learning opportunity)
4. Name calling and saying someone should be gone because of Passion and emotion is not fair....  Tomorrow some of you will post that someone should be gone for the opposite (hell there were some players with less than "passionate" impact on Saturday's game.)
4. has VU ever really let us down when it comes to making the good (right) decisions about what is important

Now, with that said - the first technical was two players trying to establish their presence.   The second Edwards technical was NOT something that usually gets a technical.   I watch a lot of basketball and have seen so many thing deserving of a technical.   He NEVER turned to the bench or another player to say anything as a few of you have said.   i have seen this Ref before and sometimes he interjects himself too much into the game.   (if there is some hidden video showing more give me a link)

Now Bryce - who I respect - can work with the team to ensure they walk that "wavey-gray" line between being aggressive and being appropriately passionate.

[StlVUFan]

I have heard that the second tech on Ritchie was crap, also the tech on Matt was crap.   What's wrong with showing a bit of enthusiasm and emotion at hitting a 3?   I remember a couple of years back at an away game I was at, Brandon got a tech after hitting a 3 and all he was doing was showing the same enthusiasm and emotion.   The refs are a bit precious and need to grow a pair.   How sad for one of our own fans to get on the Milwaukee board and bag Ritchie, don't see any fans from any of the other teams getting on our board and bagging one of their own 

If you can get a chance, watch the game again.  I watched it a second time at home with our home audio, and Richie's words are clear in Bill Johnson's microphone (he sits in the first seat next to the bench).  It was definitely worth the price of a T.

I didn't hear what exactly Kenney said myself, only second hand, but he apparently didn't like a call or a non-call, told the ref as much, the ref disagreed with him, and Kenney said something that the ref took issue with.  The players I talked to (our guys) had differing views - one said that Kenney practically asked for a technical, the other said he shouldn't have gotten it but they weren't taking any more guff once Edwards was bounced.

Aside from that, someone asked why Kaylon Williams walks with a limp.  He has a nagging ankle injury that has been bothering him since the Wisconsin game on December 12th.

It's hard to discuss Richie's 2nd T because none of us were there, and your audio play-by-play is most likely not archived.  That said, I won't strongly dispute your account either.  About all I can say is I can't dismiss the possibility.

As for Kenney, the last post before yours is the first person I've heard who wanted to dispute that one.  Even our play-by-play guys didn't dispute it.  Matt is a fiery player.  I have no trouble believing he is capable of going too far like that.

If some of our players were talking trash all game long, I have little use for that.  I'm with you on guys "comparing their johnsons."  It's just plain stupid, on top of everything.  It backfires at least as often as it helps, assuming there's any cause-and-effect at all.

If you're trying to understand it, I could take a wild guess.  Basketball-wise, Valpo over their first 4 HL years has seemed soft in league play more often than not.  We still seem so when driving to the hole for contested layups.  Amateur athletes have been known to think that trash talking helps make them more grindy 

[valpopal]

Bryce's comments on Edwards:

Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew defended Richie Edwards after Saturday's intense victory at Milwaukee. Edwards was ejected in the first half after picking up two technical fouls -- the first during a scrum for a loose ball and the second for taunting either the crowd or the Milwaukee bench (depending on whom you ask) after hitting a 3-pointer.... Drew didn't seem to think the second tech on Edwards was warranted. "When you get to know Richie, he's a sensational kid," Drew said. "When he makes shots, after he made that 3-pointer, that's what he does in practice. He just loves the game and he loves celebrating after good things happen. That's just Richie."

http://blogs.post-trib.com/lazerus/2012/01/richie-edwards-taunting-and-te.html

[StlVUFan]

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/dissecting-saturday-s-technical-fouls/article_2950e246-4aee-11e1-bc2e-0019bb2963f4.html

From the paper that hasn't -- yet -- limited free page views per month.

[valpotx]

Funny how the refs say Richie started the scrum for the first T, as if you watch, Williams is the one that started talking the trash first after Richie was battling another guy for a rebound.  Richie responded to that, to which Williams responded again.  When it was happening, I was worried that Richie would be the only one with a T, as it is always the guy that reacts that gets caught, not the instigator.  Both deserved the T for this one.

Hilarious that they say, 'in our estimation, he turned to the Milwaukee bench and taunted following a made shot' for the second one. The estimation portion leads me to believe they just heard him and assumed he was yelling at Milwaukee because of the earlier instance, rather than celebrating a huge basket in general.

[lowposter]

Perhaps he will have learned his lesson for future instances.  It is not a bad idea just to play the game and let your actions speak for themselves. 

How "old school" of me!  Today's game is often more about bravado and style rather than results.

Now, that being said...I attended nearly 200 games during the Homer Drew era and absolutely admire what he accomplished and HOW he did it.  But, let's face it, officials knew coming into the ARC they had an easy game.  Homer seldom confronted the officials and it showed.  Then, when we moved to the HL, it seemed at times we had to prove ourselves as the new team.

I like a little edginess in players and coaches.  It has to be contained and it has to be used in the proper doses.  There is a fine line between my first comments and the last.  However, there are simply times when you have to stand up and say no more.  Let's see...one tough road trip, 1 win/1 loss, 4 technicals, 1 ejection.  Overall, not bad. 

Now, let's see if the players understand that.

lowposter

[milldew72]

I was in attendance at the Cell Saturday, and can say this. By far, the worst officiated game I've ever seen at any level and I've attended hundreds of hoops games in my life. Richie's first "T" was a ghost call. No one there had any idea. The second, though, after he hit the three, was obviously him saying something he shouldn't have as he ran past the official. Kid was totally stoked about the impact he'd just made and got a bit too stoked.
THis game was the exact opposite of most VU games. IN the first half, a solid 3A team would've outplayed them. They were terrible. SOme of that had to do with the officiating, but a lot of it didn't. They were terrible. Second half, though, their D stepped up and flustered UWM. It reversed ... Panthers couldn't do anything in the second half. And when VU finally took a lead they stepped it up a notch to make sure they got the win.
Very proud of their second half ...
Exciting game.

[vu72]

For those wondering about Vashil Fernandez, I found him--playing for Milwaukee!!

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/pantmen29-6l3vbb5-138266664.html

[valpofan56]

For those wondering about Vashil Fernandez, I found him--playing for Milwaukee!!

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/pantmen29-6l3vbb5-138266664.html

Haha. Quality journalism.

[milldew72]

From there, Valparaiso got another off-balance shot from Broekhoff, who hit at least three fading, twirling, Tasmanian devil shots in traffic - all adjustments needed because of UWM's stifling defense.

What? The J-S is a very well respected, solid paper. What the hell kind of journalism is this? This is something you'd find in a high school paper.

[valpo84]

The NCAA memo on calling technicals is causing quite the stir...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/46631/officials-chief-john-adams-explains-memo

[StlVUFan]

I saw an excellent tweet the other day from one of the BIAH RoadTrip guys, something like: referees who swallow their whistle in an effort to avoid impacting the game, impact the game by doing so.

The tweet said it much more clearly and succinctly, but I totally agree with them.  Any referee who is afraid to blow his whistle when the rules dictate it, regardless of the game context, should be fired.

I agree with this directive.

[blackpantheruwm]

From there, Valparaiso got another off-balance shot from Broekhoff, who hit at least three fading, twirling, Tasmanian devil shots in traffic - all adjustments needed because of UWM's stifling defense.

What? The J-S is a very well respected, solid paper. What the hell kind of journalism is this? This is something you'd find in a high school paper.

Put it this way.  The JS has gotten so bad that it has been suggested to me by several people inside and outside the program that I should switch PantherU.com to a paying model that will net me the $ needed to cover the Panthers like a beat writer that happens to be a fan.